What could cause lights to act differently when controlled from Sequencer vs Show?

[Jay Czerwinski]

I have a musical that behaves properly when I play it directly from the Sequencer controlling lights.    But, in the Show through Control Panel and Schedule, it does not light CCRs.

 

Interestingly enough, it looks like the Preview in sequencer IS showing what it will do in Show mode, but the lights outside are all lighting.     Also, looks like it could be something with the LR command (logical resolution macro) in the CCR, because the CCRs work on other sequences.

 

Also - while looking around - could the fact I upgraded my windows to 10 be an issue?  -  (e.g. USB485 and 2x USB485 High speed adapters)

        Thanks for any ideas.   -Jay

Edited October 9, 2020 by Jay Czerwinski
added more content

[sugarnspice10172@aol.com]

Wish I knew. I am having the same issues.

 

[k6ccc]

What are the network configurations (speed, enhanced, etc).  I gather that you have you have two networks.  Is it all the lights on none network?

 

[Crimson Lane Lights Etown]

Jay, at first upgrade from S4 to S5, my show editor was still pointing to the S4 .lms files in their home folder (sequences), even though I created S5 .loredit files in the sequencer and saved them to the sequence folder.  I had to recreate each show with the new S5 .loredit file so it would play in my schedule.  Even if it is the same sequence name, the file extension was .lms and should be .loredit   S5 will still play your S4 .lms file but if you created S5 .loredit files with Motion Effects or whatever, you probably want to see those in your show not the older S4 sequences.  Just my thought...Good luck

[dibblejr]

Could be something as easy as a unit ID issue and or network issue.

Remember the CCR's in the little boxes (controllers) use 2 unit ID's. They are pixie2's. This is easily and often missed while adding pixie controllers to any show.

Sharing a unit ID will cause the same effects to play on any controllers/ props with the same ID. However if using AC sequence the color will not display correctly on the ccr props.

JR

[PhilMassey]

If you are moving to S5 and importing your S4 files, I recommend. keeping your S4 LMS files in a separate folder so you don't get mixed up between them and the new LOREDIT files.

Show editor can open old and new files so it is easy to load the wrong one.

S5 cannot do anything to harm the old files. It can not and does not change them in any way.,

[Jay Czerwinski]

11 hours ago, k6ccc said:

What are the network configurations (speed, enhanced, etc).  I gather that you have you have two networks.  Is it all the lights on none network?

 

Running Windows 10, LOR 5.5.6       

I am on 3 networks.    Com port, network, adapter, order of units with their channel #s.

Com3- 10 Units on Regular Network - 115.4k - Standard - USB485 (black) =   03 - CTB16PC Ver 4.40,  05 - CTB16D  Ver 4.40,  31 - CMB24D  Ver 1.02,  06 - CTB16D  Ver 4.40,  16 - CR150D  Ver 1.07,  18 - CR150D  Ver 1.06,  01 - CTB16PC Ver 4.40,  02 - CTB16PC Ver 4.40,  13 - CR150D  Ver 1.07,  15 - CR150D  Ver 1.06

Com 4 - 5 units on AUXA Network - 115.4k - USB485HS (red) =   21 - CCB100  Ver 1.21,  23 - CCB100  Ver 1.21,  25 - CCB100  Ver 1.21,  26 - CCB100  Ver 1.21,  27 - CCB100  Ver 1.21

Com 5 - AUX B Network - Lowered to 57.6k from 115.4k - USB485HS (red) =   17 - CR150D  Ver 1.06,  14 - CR150D  Ver 1.17,  07 - CTB16D  Ver 4.32

 

Everything works fine for other sequences...    Every controller runs fine for all my songs.    Where I see the discrepancy is when I use the channel 151 LR (Logical Resolution).  

INTERESTING NEW DATA that when I was pulling all of this info to make sure my data is correct - when the song is FIRST played in show, it does not work right - showing only the first pixel.   But on the SECOND time playing in a loop, the CCRS work just fine?!?!

1. The CCR plays right when played directly from Sequencer

2. The CCR shows the error of only seeing the first pixel in Preview mode of Sequencer

3. The CCR only lights the 1st pixel and ignores the LR channel 151 on the first time playing in show mode, but then acts perfectly the second time and thereafter.

4. Initially I thought this was just two CCRs on a network where I can see the strips from my office window - but, this is actually happening on ALL of my 6 CCRs in the show.  

5. When not using LR channel 151, everything is fine everywhere.     My quick fix will be to just not use the LR macro and just cut and paste channel 1 to the other 49 channels on all 6 CCRs.

 

 

 

[Jay Czerwinski]

4 hours ago, Crimson Lane Lights Etown said:

Jay, at first upgrade from S4 to S5, my show editor was still pointing to the S4 .lms files in their home folder (sequences), even though I created S5 .loredit files in the sequencer and saved them to the sequence folder.  I had to recreate each show with the new S5 .loredit file so it would play in my schedule.  Even if it is the same sequence name, the file extension was .lms and should be .loredit   S5 will still play your S4 .lms file but if you created S5 .loredit files with Motion Effects or whatever, you probably want to see those in your show not the older S4 sequences.  Just my thought...Good luck

I have made the shows and the schedules from scratch in S5.  I have not made in S5 motions.   

[Jay Czerwinski]

3 hours ago, dibblejr said:

Could be something as easy as a unit ID issue and or network issue.

Remember the CCR's in the little boxes (controllers) use 2 unit ID's. They are pixie2's. This is easily and often missed while adding pixie controllers to any show.

Sharing a unit ID will cause the same effects to play on any controllers/ props with the same ID. However if using AC sequence the color will not display correctly on the ccr props.

JR

Thanks for idea.  I used the checker in S5 and no duplicates.   Also, all of the other shows run fine and they all use the same Visualizer file and channel assignments.  

Also, note my discovery in another message I just posted - It only happens on the first time playing and is fine the second time!  so weird.   

17 hours ago, sugarnspice10172@aol.com said:

Wish I knew. I am having the same issues.

 

Can you play your show and see if on the second time around the CCRs work right?   Mine are working right the second time playing.

[Jay Czerwinski]

1 hour ago, PhilMassey said:

If you are moving to S5 and importing your S4 files, I recommend. keeping your S4 LMS files in a separate folder so you don't get mixed up between them and the new LOREDIT files.

Show editor can open old and new files so it is easy to load the wrong one.

S5 cannot do anything to harm the old files. It can not and does not change them in any way.,

Every year I make a new year folder and all of the sequences are updated and have their names changed too with the year and holiday in them.   Then I create a new show from scratch because that is easier than deleting all of the prior shows first.  

First thing I do is open last year's files, and immediately "save as" to a new year folder, a new file name with the new year and at v0.      

[TheDucks]

The checker check the sequence for multiple uses of a ID:channel.

It can't detect 2 boxes  (controllers) overlapping ID's

[k6ccc]

8 hours ago, Jay Czerwinski said:

Where I see the discrepancy is when I use the channel 151 LR (Logical Resolution).  

Thank you for the detailed description of your networks!  I have never used any of the Macro channels, so you just left my ability to help.

 

[dibblejr]

8 hours ago, Jay Czerwinski said:

Thanks for idea.  I used the checker in S5 and no duplicates.   Also, all of the other shows run fine and they all use the same Visualizer file and channel assignments.  

Also, note my discovery in another message I just posted - It only happens on the first time playing and is fine the second time!  so weird.   

Can you play your show and see if on the second time around the CCRs work right?   Mine are working right the second time playing.

You have to check the unit IDs yourself.

The example would be - use undetermined and all props work. Throw a unit ID in there and its not networked correctly and your sequence will play, but in the show it will not.

JR

[Jay Czerwinski]

On 10/12/2020 at 11:22 PM, dibblejr said:

You have to check the unit IDs yourself.

The example would be - use undetermined and all props work. Throw a unit ID in there and its not networked correctly and your sequence will play, but in the show it will not.

JR

Just making sure - you are saying the sequence will control the lights perfectly, but the show will not control the lights perfectly?    And wouldn't that be consistent?    I mean, the sequences play PERFECTLY in show mode after one cycle through the show.  It's ONLY a problem on the first pass and on the CCRs using the logical resolution macro.   (I set LR to 1 and just light the whole CCribbon to one color as defined in pixel 1)

 

This just seems like a bug in how the files are made in show mode.   - I had long delays between songs, so I have it build/load them all right at the start of the show.  

[dibblejr]

4 hours ago, Jay Czerwinski said:

Just making sure - you are saying the sequence will control the lights perfectly, but the show will not control the lights perfectly?    And wouldn't that be consistent?    I mean, the sequences play PERFECTLY in show mode after one cycle through the show.  It's ONLY a problem on the first pass and on the CCRs using the logical resolution macro.   (I set LR to 1 and just light the whole CCribbon to one color as defined in pixel 1)

 

This just seems like a bug in how the files are made in show mode.   - I had long delays between songs, so I have it build/load them all right at the start of the show.  

There are a lot of variables. I have them as well. The show can run perfect in sequencer and fail miserably if there are problems with controllers, connections, wire, interference of many types and the good old "human error" of which I suffered today.

I am seeing though that all things in the preview are not showing on the props as designed.

For instance - I have 8 huge circles. I have had the 8 circles for 5 seasons without failure. Yesterday while testing them I have 1 of the 8 doing things the opposite of the others. All sequenced by hand. However the preview shows them running perfect. All going in the direction they are sup to be. Tonight I was looking at my preview trying to figure it out and bam - right in front of me in prop def laid my answer. Somehow it had gotten switched in direction and starting point in prop def. 

Hopefully tomorrow it will work so I can move on to the next prop.

So yes, if the sequence plays fine in the preview but you forget to turn on the lights at the physical location the show will not run.

The sequence controls the show, the humans run the show.

I do not use Macros I only know of one person here that uses macros and maybe he would chime in here.

Try asking ItsMeBob  (Bob) he may have your answer. I know a few years ago or so he was having problems with the LR settings in a pixie16 and in a crunch I was able to help him (for once) but its been a while so not sure if he figured it out or is using a different controller.

JR 

[Orville]

On 10/12/2020 at 2:50 PM, Jay Czerwinski said:

Running Windows 10, LOR 5.5.6       

I am on 3 networks.    Com port, network, adapter, order of units with their channel #s.

Com3- 10 Units on Regular Network - 115.4k - Standard - USB485 (black) =   03 - CTB16PC Ver 4.40,  05 - CTB16D  Ver 4.40,  31 - CMB24D  Ver 1.02,  06 - CTB16D  Ver 4.40,  16 - CR150D  Ver 1.07,  18 - CR150D  Ver 1.06,  01 - CTB16PC Ver 4.40,  02 - CTB16PC Ver 4.40,  13 - CR150D  Ver 1.07,  15 - CR150D  Ver 1.06

Com 4 - 5 units on AUXA Network - 115.4k - USB485HS (red) =   21 - CCB100  Ver 1.21,  23 - CCB100  Ver 1.21,  25 - CCB100  Ver 1.21,  26 - CCB100  Ver 1.21,  27 - CCB100  Ver 1.21

Com 5 - AUX B Network - Lowered to 57.6k from 115.4k - USB485HS (red) =   17 - CR150D  Ver 1.06,  14 - CR150D  Ver 1.17,  07 - CTB16D  Ver 4.32

Comm 3 looks fine, Comm 5 looks fine.   However, Comm 4 I have to wonder if it is where the issue lies.   It looks like you used 2 ID #'s for each CCB100 Controller, as you have them as Unit #: 21, 23, 25 {so thinking these are set as 21/22, 23/24, 25/26, then here comes where I question this, you start the next Controller with Unit ID #26 and the last unit as ID #27, if you are using 1 unit ID's per CCB100, then your Controller 25 is overlapping, as the next Unit ID for the next CCB100 Controller should be 27/28 and the last Controller would be 29/30.

Now this would only hold true if using the CCB100 Controllers as dual ID units.  I'm thinking that's what you did because of the skip in numbers when you listed them as 21, 23, 25, but then you number the next two units as 26, 27, which would cause the lights on the last3 controllers not to wrok correctly due to overlapping of unit ID #'s.

Not sure if this could be your problem, but might be something to look into.   And no, the verifier would not show this as an error, so it's not much help in locating the same type controller with a cloned or same ID as another controller of the same model/family.

 

[Jay Czerwinski]

On 10/20/2020 at 10:18 PM, Orville said:

Comm 3 looks fine, Comm 5 looks fine.   However, Comm 4 I have to wonder if it is where the issue lies.   It looks like you used 2 ID #'s for each CCB100 Controller, as you have them as Unit #: 21, 23, 25 {so thinking these are set as 21/22, 23/24, 25/26, then here comes where I question this, you start the next Controller with Unit ID #26 and the last unit as ID #27, if you are using 1 unit ID's per CCB100, then your Controller 25 is overlapping, as the next Unit ID for the next CCB100 Controller should be 27/28 and the last Controller would be 29/30.

Now this would only hold true if using the CCB100 Controllers as dual ID units.  I'm thinking that's what you did because of the skip in numbers when you listed them as 21, 23, 25, but then you number the next two units as 26, 27, which would cause the lights on the last3 controllers not to wrok correctly due to overlapping of unit ID #'s.

Not sure if this could be your problem, but might be something to look into.   And no, the verifier would not show this as an error, so it's not much help in locating the same type controller with a cloned or same ID as another controller of the same model/family.

 

Super smart of you to see that!   But it's not where my problem is.    Funny though you see that!  When I first got the controllers like 7 or 8 years ago, I set them up to have 2 IDs and you are RIGHT to think that is why they are numbered that way.   I had them all in a row end-to-end in a 400 long pixel display.   But then for some reason I switched to single ID's and I kept the the start at 21.   Unit 21 1-150 is first strand, 10 macros commands, and then strand 2 is 161-310, and 10 more macros.     I just kept the odd numbers.    But last year I moved to a house where I had to split the display in half.  (nearly)   my 8 strands got split to 5 on the left and 3 on the right.   controller 25 was too far to make an extension.   So I use controller 25 s1 on the left and added a controller 26 on the right and only use s2.   that has worked perfectly for 2 years now.    But I'm still impressed at your deductions!!!

 

My problem is actually 4 CCRs on the Regular network, and 2CCRs on the AUX B.     All 6 light the lights fully in sequencer, but the preview is showing only the first pixel on.  (ignoring my macro command to have pixel 1 represent the whole strip)       When I play them in show, for the first pass, the physical lights looks like what is in the sequencer - only the first pixel.    But on their second time and thereafter, they light fully and work like I programmed them.  

 

I threw in the verifier info because this was the first year I used it.    But when I scan the networks in HU, it comes up with the right number of controllers and they are all the correct addresses as referenced in my sequence.  No duplicates for sure.   

[dibblejr]

I think your best bet would be to get a screen capture video recorder.( Camtasia has a free version and even though it leaves water marks it’s still functional) record what’s going on in preview and on screen.

 Then make a video of the actual lights showing both the first time play and then the consecutive plays.

Use the videos to support a Help Desk ticket.

JR

[Orville]

Then you have a very unique problem and JR's suggestion would probably be your best bet to help with resolving it.   As I've never seen this happen until now. 

Thanks for clearing the ID numbering scheme up, and is why I asked, sometimes we can miss something that's right in front of us, we don't see it, but someone else might.

[Jay Czerwinski]

Thanks guys - I will work to submit a ticket at some point in the future.  It's kinda easier right now just to let the show be wrong through the first cycle of the day and then it works fine afterwards.      As soon as I find the time......   thanks again!