Spiral Ramp between Colors

[DanO]

<Rant>  I am completely frustrated by the quality of the documentation for the S5 Motion Effect Generator and SuperStar Sequencer".  If done properly (from the perspective of the user and not the developer), queries to Support and/or this forum would be greatly reduced. </Rant>

What I want to do should be somewhat straight forward.  I want to create a cascading  ramp from (pink) to black then to her (green).  I have a spoke layout of 12 strings each with 6 lights (yep that an amazing total of 72 total pixels).  The fade should occur across each arm and also around.  Attached is a picture of the transition a little than 1/2 of way through.

On the 1 o'clock arm, we see the end pixel fading, the middle ones are black and the internal ones are starting to fade up to green.

Thus the fade goes out each arm and around.

I could not figure out to do this with either the motion effect, nor superstar.  Instead I created it by hand for each pixel! 

Super Star was closest with the Shockwave Effect (under Smooth Effects), going diagonally across the grid. (SuperStar is totally biased toward Cartesian coordinates, not polar like my layout).  However, it likes to turn off the pixels after the effect, whereas I want them to remain on with the new color.

Q: Am I missing something fundamental about how to use SuperStar and/or Motion effects?

Q: The Channels are in Row Column order.   It would be more convenient if I could have them in Column Row order.  Is there a way to do that?

  

[k6ccc]

First of all, in S5, you can create a functionally unlimited number of arrangements for the same channels.  For example for my six 50 pixel arches, I have two arrangements.  One is a linear arrangements with all 300 pixels in one line.  The other is six rows of 50 pixels.  Depending on what I am doing, depends on which one I use.  I do almost all of my sequencing in SuperStar, and it handles odd arrangements just fine.

4 hours ago, DanO said:

However, it likes to turn off the pixels after the effect, whereas I want them to remain on with the new color.

It is doing what you told it to do.  If you want a light or group of lights to remain on at the end of an effect, put a "scene" of the desired color at the end.

4 hours ago, DanO said:

Q: The Channels are in Row Column order.   It would be more convenient if I could have them in Column Row order.  Is there a way to do that?

You can set them up just about any way that you want.  Carefully read the manual in S5 Preview Editor for group arrangement (vertical vs horizontal stacking vs preview mode).  Remember, you can have multiple groups with the same pixels, but arranged differently.  Then pick the desired arrangement for each situation while sequencing.

 

[PhilMassey]

Rant and run I guess.

[DanO]

k6ccc,

Thanks for the tips.   

Soooo.... How do you create "Arrangements" for you pixels?   Is that a Preview Feature?

I did discover that Channels can be sorted in the Sequencer.  You must right click on a Channel then select "Sort Channels".  The Row, & Column work.  The "By Color" does not work.

 

I can sort of see how SuperStar Might  be useful, if one is willing to put in the time to tease out how the features and controls work. 

I offer the following screen shot as proof that the SuperStar is a poorly conceived,  poorly implemented tool. 

Notice this error message says I must enter an integer between 0 and 255.   Entering 255 and you get the correct error message of 0 - 100 (inclusive).    

Percentages ???  Really ! Every place else the pixel values are in RBG values of 0 to 255. 

 

Now I return to my rant about documentation/examples/design.

The Scene Setup Tool is not at all intuitive.

The developer needs to read "The Design of Everyday Things" 

• There is no "%" sign by the Red Green Blue fields to indicate that these are percentages
• The Documentation is wrong in a number of areas.
  • Clicking on the "Paper" Icon does not set the default time and colors as described.
  • Clicking on the "Paper" Icon a second time will cause SuperStar is ungracefully close
• The time scale between the Sequencer and SuperStar is inconsistent.
  • I can select 0.2 seconds  on time in the Sequencer, but am still presented with an 8 second window in SuperStar. 
  • What are the units for time?  I'm guessing these are seconds (again, no indication).
    • Start can be any value from 0 to 59.95
    • End can be a value up to 1:00.00
      • Does that mean that no SuperStar Scene can be longer than 1 minute?  Again no clue.
• A simple Graphic would have been very helpful to show that multiple "Scenes
• What do the Radio Buttons "Transparent, Semi-Trans, & Solid" Really do?
• What are the numbers by the "Shimmer" and "Twinkle" do?
• The "No Clip" and "Manual Clip" buttons might as well be written in Klingon for all the meaning they convey.

[k6ccc]

3 hours ago, DanO said:

Percentages ???  Really ! Every place else the pixel values are in RBG values of 0 to 255. 

Levels in all LOR software except DMX commands are in percentages - always has been.  The color picker in Sequencer does allow setting in 0 - 255 (if you manually type in the number).

3 hours ago, DanO said:

I can sort of see how SuperStar Might  be useful, if one is willing to put in the time to tease out how the features and controls work. 

SuperStar is extremely powerful, but like almost ALL complex pieces of software, there is a learning curve.  I have been using SuperStar since 2012, and I can assure you that it did not make much sense at first.  Since 2014, I have essentially sequenced everything in SuperStar.

3 hours ago, DanO said:

The time scale between the Sequencer and SuperStar is inconsistent.

• I can select 0.2 seconds  on time in the Sequencer, but am still presented with an 8 second window in SuperStar. 
• What are the units for time?  I'm guessing these are seconds (again, no indication).
  • Start can be any value from 0 to 59.95
  • End can be a value up to 1:00.00
    • Does that mean that no SuperStar Scene can be longer than 1 minute?  Again no clue.

Yes, you always get an eight second window in SuperStar - always have.  You can set times outside that window or select effects outside that window

You can set any effect time anywhere from 0.01 seconds up to the length of the song - in 0.01 second increments (if you manually type the time), or 0.05 second intervals by selecting the time on the time slider.  Every song I have ever sequences has channels that are on for the entire song.  Time entry format in SuperStar is EXACTLY the same as in Sequencer.

3 hours ago, DanO said:

The Scene Setup Tool is not at all intuitive.

Actually it's very simple to use.  If you have a suggestion to improve the layout, I am sure Brian would listen to you (he is VERY responsive).  What don't you understand?

 

3 hours ago, DanO said:

The Documentation is wrong in a number of areas.

• Clicking on the "Paper" Icon does not set the default time and colors as described.
• Clicking on the "Paper" Icon a second time will cause SuperStar is ungracefully close

In the S5 environment, there is normally no reason to EVER hit that button (prior to S5 there was, and there still are some special advanced places to use it).  However, I opened SuperStar and clicked on the New icon 10 times, and every time it did exactly what it was supposed to do - create a new sequence with a default time of one minute.  I then added a few scenes, and clicked the New icon again and other than it asking if I wanted to save my changes (which I did not), it created a new file.  I repeated that 10 times, and again it worked perfectly every time.

3 hours ago, DanO said:

• What do the Radio Buttons "Transparent, Semi-Trans, & Solid" Really do?
• What are the numbers by the "Shimmer" and "Twinkle" do?

Best answer is try them and see.  Play around with it for a couple minutes and it would be pretty obvious.  However I will tell you this much, the numbers for Shimmer and Twinkle change the speed at which they operate.

3 hours ago, DanO said:

The "No Clip" and "Manual Clip" buttons might as well be written in Klingon for all the meaning they convey.

Again, give it a try.  I use Manual Clip A LOT - not as much in S5 as I did previously however.  Short version of what it is used for is to keep an effect from spilling over into some other part of the display.  Certain effects (particularly smooth effects), can easily be intended to affect one prop, but also effect another.  Manual Clip allows you to specify an area that will be affected by the effect and all areas outside the clip will not be affected.  You can also use it so that an effect only affects part of a prop.

3 hours ago, DanO said:

Soooo.... How do you create "Arrangements" for you pixels?   Is that a Preview Feature?

Yes, almost everything in S5 for channel arrangements and groups is set in the Preview Editor.  That's why I suggested carefully reading the manual for arrangements in Preview Editor.

3 hours ago, DanO said:

I did discover that Channels can be sorted in the Sequencer.  You must right click on a Channel then select "Sort Channels".  The Row, & Column work.  The "By Color" does not work.

Actually it does, but obviously not the way you expected it to.

BTW, are you starting SuperStar directly or are you initiating a "Insert SuperStar Effects" from within the S5 Sequencer?  Within the S5 environment, you should normally always be opening SuperStar by using the "Insert SuperStar Effects" command in the Sequencer.

 

[DanO]

First Topic Colors:

In the Sequencer, how is one supposed to select colors if not by the color picker which has 8 bit values for RGB? 

Suggestion: In Scene Setup dialog box, have Radio Buttons for selecting either Percentages or RGB values for the Start and End Colors.    This would all the user to work in either mode and enable them to (more easily) match colors they selected with the color picker.

[DanO]

Item #2,  Creating a Scene

The first item in the SuperStar documentation  under "Creating a Scene" is to Initialize it (Screen Shot)

Here's a video of a screen capture showing the issue's I'm seeing with the Initialize (White Paper) Icon.

 

It didn't capture the cursor.  However, You can see me start SuperStar by selecting a Motion Effect Region.

If you watch closely, you can see me depress the Initialize Icon at the 10 second mark and then again right before it closes.  

[DanO]

Thirdly, sort by color.

Here's a video of me trying to sort by color.

 

The rows of alternating color bars of Red and Yellow.   Sort by color didn't change the order.   How is it supposed to work?

[dibblejr]

I am not very experienced with S5 but i have experience in S4 and SS.

Keeping it simple because that works for me. I may be wrong and if so someone can correct me but.....

I am thinking the "Insert SS effect" wants you to actually add the effect. If that  spinner is the prop you are working with, you have no sequence "effects" sequenced yet. So when you clicked the paper icon its clearing and resetting nothing and S5 was expecting "data" to be received. If there is no data then it cant add the effects to your prop.

Try creating the effect in SS, saving it as an .sup and then inserting the effect. That is what I do and I never receive that error. 

That tutorial is very good, if you follow along and create a SS sequence, if its the same documentation as before S5.

If having problems or not understanding SS you should try to reach out to the Help Desk and create a ticket. Once Brian gets the ticket he is very good at following through as well as contacting you via the LOR communications line.

Jim and Phil both have a lot of knowledge in SS but when its not clear to you the next best thing is the HD.

It does save from a lot of frustration you just have to have some patience as they ask you to perform some tasks to try and get you where you want to be. Or they will simply ask Brian to contact you.

JR

[k6ccc]

3 hours ago, DanO said:

In the Sequencer, how is one supposed to select colors if not by the color picker which has 8 bit values for RGB? 

Suggestion: In Scene Setup dialog box, have Radio Buttons for selecting either Percentages or RGB values for the Start and End Colors.    This would all the user to work in either mode and enable them to (more easily) match colors they selected with the color picker.

Some of that is simply history.  Remember that when most of this software was originally written, NO ONE was using pixels (they essentially did not exist).  When lighting dumb light strings, percentages was perfectly fine.  When the whole concept of RGB was added, to a large extent the percentages continued.  The color picker in S5 (far newer) does operate (if you type the numbers) in 0 - 255.  Most of the time, you can simply select one of the built in colors.  You will likely find that there is very little need or desire to use much in the way of "custom" colors.  Personally, other than the three primary colors (red, green, and blue), the three secondary colors (yellow, cyan, and magenta), and white, about the only other colors I use are orange, a deep purple, and a dim green (12% green).

However, with that said, I would agree that Brian (the author of SuperStar) might want to add the ability to specify colors in 0 - 255 levels.

3 hours ago, DanO said:

It didn't capture the cursor.  However, You can see me start SuperStar by selecting a Motion Effect Region.

If you watch closely, you can see me depress the Initialize Icon at the 10 second mark and then again right before it closes.  

As I said in my previous post, in the S5 environment, you should normally NEVER need to press the New button.  The only time to press the New button would be to start a new sequence when operating outside the S5 environment.  No different than using Word or Excel - the New button (the thing that sort of looks like a sheet of blank paper) is used to start a new document.  You certainly would not use that icon every time you wanted to change the text formatting of a Word document.

3 hours ago, DanO said:

The rows of alternating color bars of Red and Yellow.   Sort by color didn't change the order.   How is it supposed to work?

It's not working the way you expect.  Sort by color has nothing to do with the color that happens to be on a particular group of RGB channels at whatever time you are looking at.  Sort by color sorts NON-RGB colors by their assigned color.  For example if you have a traditional mega tree with superstrings consisting of four different colors, you can sort the strings by assigned color - in other words for example, all the blue strings, then all the green strings, then all the red strings, and lastly all the white strings.

[PhilMassey]

What Jim says is very true. 

You have to keep in mind that the  S5 environment is very new to everybody, including the devs. The three basic programs which came together in S5 have a lot of legacy issues to deal with, including sequencing from a time before RGB even existed. The devs are continually working to improve and to fix issues with S5.

You have said nothing about your physical setup, but many of us have both RGB and non RGB components in our shows.

 We're also not talking Microsoft here, with hundreds of devs.Try three, basically one for each of the three programs that have come together to make S5.

You have been talking mainly about Superstar, so far, but have you looked at the Sequencing tools and the Motion Effects Editor in the Sequencer. I still don't use SS but there is an enormous potential for effects in Sequencer without using it. SS can be  a valuable tool but it is not the only way.

[DanO]

Thanks Jim (& Phil) for your patience and response.   

I like Light-o-rama and I want them to be successful.   As mentioned at the top of this post, I'm am frustrated by the documentation. There's over 650 pages of it which can overwhelm and confuse the user.    More is not necessarily better. 

Little things can make a big difference, such has a "%" sign in a dialog box or a "Sort by Assigned Color" in a drop down. 

I have submitted some appropriate tickets to the help desk. 

Once again, thank you for taking time to respond.

 

[k6ccc]

You are right about 650 pages of manual being overwhelming - try reading an AutoCAD book (or books).  Might make your head explode!

One thing I did not say before, I have spent countless hours on the phone and in TeamViewer sessions with various users to help them.  I am quite willing to do so for you.  Also both Brian (who wrote SuperStar) and Matt (the primary writer of S5 Sequencer and Motion Effects) can also do remote sessions in order to help end users.

BTW, where in Colorado are you?  I have a sister in Colorado Springs so I get out there once in a while.

 

 

[DanO]

I am in Fort Collins, but I get down to Colorado Springs about once a month (or so) for a Charity Organization I work with.

I may  take you up on your offer, but first, like me explore a little more with the hints you have given.

Thanks

[DanO]

I uploaded a video of the 2 dimensional fade I created (by hand).  If fades across each column and also along each row (delayed).  Since the layout is like spokes in a wheel, the fade goes out and around.

 

I'm still not seeing a convenient, more simple way to create this effect with neither Motion Effect, nor SuperStar than what I did by hand.

If you wish to give a shot at it, I've uploaded both the preview file FlowerGarden.lorprev and the sequence file FlowerGardenTest.loredit

 

FlowerGarden.lorprev FlowerGardenTest.loredit

[PhilMassey]

I'm not sure if this helps or if it;s what you're looking for but I chased your colors over several seconds which gave an interesting effect, Then I added some basic color ramps and white pulses and chased that. Finally I did a chase in each direction from the center out.

No SS or motion effects used.

Just a quick and dirty idea of what chases can do. Here's the modified file.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p3voexmx9as8a28/flowergardentest chase examples..loredit?dl=0

[DanO]

Phil, 

Yep, Those are fun.   Like you, I'm am not using neither Motion Effects, nor SuperStar. 

BTW, I plan on spacing these pixels about 2 feet apart.  Each pixel will be mounted on top of ~6" of pvc pipe with 4" white vinyl "leaves".  This is surrounding a small tree in my yard.  That's why I'm calling it  "Flower Garden".