Visualizer gets out of sync with music

[taybrynn]

I'm using mp3 songs for everything.

Recently, since the s2 upgrade ... I have had a problem with
2 new songs ... and what happens is that (at some point) the
visualizer (animation window) gets out of sync from the song ...
you keep sequencing ... then later realize that everything you
did was mis-timed as the music wasn't really where it was
during the previous session of S2.

So then I find myself having to go back and fix it ... which is massive
amounts of work and not all of its wrong ... so it ok, some it way off.

Anyone seen this before?

All year I didn't see it doing over 10 songs ... not on the last 3 songs, I've
had the problem with two of them. Is is a personal problem or an S2 problem?

Thanks,
Scott

[Dennis Cherry]

taybrynn wrote:

I'm using mp3 songs for everything.

Recently, since the s2 upgrade ... I have had a problem with
2 new songs ... and what happens is that (at some point) the
visualizer (animation window) gets out of sync from the song ...
you keep sequencing ... then later realize that everything you
did was mis-timed as the music wasn't really where it was
during the previous session of S2.

So then I find myself having to go back and fix it ... which is massive
amounts of work and not all of its wrong ... so it ok, some it way off.

Anyone seen this before?

All year I didn't see it doing over 10 songs ... not on the last 3 songs, I've
had the problem with two of them. Is is a personal problem or an S2 problem?

Thanks,
Scott

Does it look OK in the programming window? Does the channels turn off and on OK in the programming window?

If so I would leave the timing alone and check it by hooking up a controller with some lights and see what it looks like then.

Many posts have said the visualizer takes up to much CPU time and sometimes gives you that problem. I do not rely on the visualizer giving me the perfect timing indication. It just gives me a good representation only. The true timing will be when you see it in action.

Just my thoughts.


BTW: Thanks for helping us out with the EDM buys.

[taybrynn]

Thanks Dennis.

Well, I'm not ruling out the possibility that it's my laptop being sluggish ... as its been slower lately than it was earlier this year.

It seems like on a marginal computer, I almost need to re-install XP yearly to keep it lean and fast. I have uninstalled some software lately trying to get it back to how it was. It could be related to using AVG software which won't uninstall for some reason.

[JerryBSmith]

I have the same problem in the Sequence Editor with music (mp3). If I start the sequence at the beginning each time no problem. If I select any other play range other than Full Sequence the music and action no longer match. If I make changes when it is out of sync then it can destroy the timing in the entire file if it is saved. Very time consuming to program a sequence if you have to start at the beginning each time!!

[Denny]

Are these two new MP3 songs that are giving you problems recorded at a constant bit rate rather than variable? Does it do the same thing with a WAV?

[taybrynn]

Interesting ... I normally prefer to use 'visible screen' pay option, so using full sequence would be a royal pain. I would say I've never seen it happen till going into the 'visible screen' playback mode ... so I think its the same thing you were seeing.

Song two songs I am having problems with are both higher bitrate than the other mp3 files I have used in the past. They are both legally purchased and downloaded DRM free MP3 songs from amazon mp3 downloads.

One says 643 kbps and the other says 608 kbps. They are both very high quality
in my opinion.

I would say that I haven't used WAV files on anything previously ... but everything
else I've used (without problems) was either 256kbps, 192kbps or 128kbps ... all fixed bitrate mp3 ... with 256kbps being the most common. Oddly enough, many of those came from amazon as well ... but are not higher than 256kbps bitrate.

I guess I could try converting these two to WAV and seeing if that resolved the erratic behavior I've been seeing.

In fact, the behavior isn't just limited to the visualizer ... you actually sequence things incorrectly in the main sequencing window ... only to find the audio was out of sync later on, only after restarting the sequence editor.

I guess my suggestion to LOR would be to test with a higher bitrate mp3 just to figure out whats going on. I know its probably not happening a lot ... but if services like amazon are moving towards higher bitrate downloads ... then this could be an ever increasing problem in the future.

I could provide one or two of these songs (and sequences) to them for testing purposes, if needed.

Scott

[JerryBSmith]

I converted the mp3 to a wav and it works great. The properties says the mp3 is 320Kbps bitrate. However, I want to load it to a DC-MP3 to control the LOR unit so I need it as an mp3 and not a WAV. The manual indicates that 128Kbps Constant Bit Rate is best. I'll give that a shot.

Any input is most appreciated!

Thanks.

Jerry

[rwertz]

Variable Bit Rate doesn’t necessarily mean poor quality. It uses a lower bit rate in areas of the song that don’t require the full bit rate to properly reproduce the sound. It will definitely cause timing issues in LOR. I believe it is most noticeable when you start playing from a point within the song (instead of the beginning).

Attached is example file info of a VBR song as viewed in Winamp. When you view the advanced file info from Windows Explorer it simply lists the bit rate as 320kbps (with no reference to VBR).

Attached files

[taybrynn]

244kbit (VBR)

No mention of VBR eh?

I agree -- I've used VBR a lot and think its good, but don't trust it for use in S2 yet.

I did convert my files to 256kbps mp3 files and also WAV's. For some reason, my laptop can keep up with the WAV version (lagged), so the 256kbps version worked great and I was able to fix my songs last night ... and didn't experience any problems with S2 with the 256kbps fixed bitrate songs.

Thanks!

[smarts53]

Ive been having a similar problem ever since I upgraded to S2. This only happens at 1/2 or 1/4 speed though. The animation window is out of sync and the vertical bar that moves across the wave form is very jumpy. This make it very tricky to pinpoint notes, events, etc on the screen. The odd thing is that LOR I works fine and this problem is evident in MP3 files as well as WAV. Anyone have any thoughts on this? It would make things much easier because right now I basically have to listen to the song at full speed.

Thanks!

Ian Ferralli

[Denny]

Somebody else was having that same problem about a month ago; I know there was a rather lengthy discussion about it and can't remember how it was resolved. Have to go back and see if I can find the thread.

[LightORamaDan]

The "bug" of "Play visible screen" vs "Play Full Sequence" has been an issue since day one of LOR. It has to do with the inability of Windows Media Player to correctly jump into the middle of a MP3 file. The media player returns incorrect position during play back.

The issue can be circumvented by using wav file OR using the Audacity program (and the lame MP3 encoder) to re-encode the MP3 file.

Here is a link to a document on the support page that describes how to get the MP3 file formatted correctly: http://lightorama.com/Documents/Audacity_Lame_128Kbps.pdf

-------

There can be a completely different reason for the animation window to be out of sync and that has to do with the video drivers on a PC. This problem does not have to do with "Visible Screen" vs "Full Sequence" but it can affect the play back. This can usually be corrected by changing the "Hardware Acceleration" level of the video card to a lower level or "None".

To adjust hardware acceleration:

Right click on the Desktop then: Properties -> Settings -> Advanced -> Troubleshoot

Dan

[smarts53]

Denny wrote:

Somebody else was having that same problem about a month ago; I know there was a rather lengthy discussion about it and can't remember how it was resolved. Have to go back and see if I can find the thread.

Oh was there? I never saw it, maybe I didn't search thoroughly enough, ill go back and look to see what I can find.

[taybrynn]

Thanks Dan ... great information (as usual) ...

I've always used CDex with the LAME encoder and recall having to specify the LAME encoder (path) location to Audacity as well, so when I re-code those Amazon files ... they got lame mp3 encoded. They seem to work fine as 256kbps bitrate.

What is strange to me is how the WAV files work worse (than mp3) for me.

I think its possibly due to my laptop having a very slow hard drive (laptop drives often are slow, esp. the reliable ones) ... and integrated video and audio ... both negatives for performance., IMHO. I just checked and I have an ATI mobiltiy Radean 7500 with 32MB of video memory. I had full acceleration on, I will try changing it down a notch to see if that makes anything better with using WAV files.

Scott

[jasone45]

I made the conversion using Audacity and Lame and still have the same...lame problem...?

Both the visualization and the Channel buttons in the sequencer are off by as much as a second when I start from anywhere but the beginning of the song. I've seen this with several different songs. They came from Amazon.

Any other ideas?

[taybrynn]

what bitrate did you convert them to? Did you use fixed bitrate (instead of variable / VBR) ??

[jasone45]

I didn't see a VBR option in Audacity. I did leave it at 128.

[taybrynn]

I wish I could help you, but my problems all went away after using fixed bitrate (256k) mp3s the I converted using audacity. My mp3 files were also from amazon.com .

I suppose you could try using 256k instead of 128k ??

ANd did you remember to re-specify the audio file (into the sequence) after creating the mp3 file?

So for me, after I converted the file, I had to go in an manually specify the audio file and choose the new one, instead of the old one. I'm assuming you did that.

[John]

jasone45 wrote:

I made the conversion using Audacity and Lame and still have the same...lame problem...?

Both the visualization and the Channel buttons in the sequencer are off by as much as a second when I start from anywhere but the beginning of the song. I've seen this with several different songs. They came from Amazon.

Any other ideas?

If the "View Wave Form" is turned on (you see the audio wave form at the top of the sequence editor) try turning it off and running the sequence. I have seen it slow down the screen update at times. Just a thought....

[heystew]

Did anyone ever find a solution for this. It's odd.. it happens on some songs for me and not for others. All have been run through audacity to constant 128k bit rate. I haven't tried the wav file approach but will try that later tonight.