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Most effeicient way to sequence


chowell
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I am new to LOR this year but have been working with S2 off and on since February or so. I have my 1:30 intro sequenced, and one other song. So far, I have found I am spending 12-15 hours total on a song. Granted, It is split into 1 and 2 hour sessions which does not help with continuity. I have heard guys mention getting songs done in 4-5 hours. What am I doing wrong, or more so, just not doing right? I hear guys talking about the beat wizard vs. the tapper wizard. I used the tapper wizard on my first two songs, but my third one is a medley of 8 songs. I am wanting to do some effects with the lyrics, not just the beat. Would you guys tap out the lyrics instead of the beat in that situation?

I am just looking for some input on the way you guys sequence. I read a post a while back from a kid who says he has over 30 songs sequenced this year. That would take me years at this rate, LOL. I am wondering if I am trying to get too fancy or just not using the wizard correctly as a good beat indicator.

I would appreciate any input.

Thanks.
Corey

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Since the introduction of the Beat Wizard in S2, there is no reason to use the Tapper Wizard to tap beats. The Tapper Wizard still is the best way to do effects with the lyrics (e.g. talking pumpkins).

In your medley, I would do this: Start with no timings. Run the Beat Wizard, but select "Just part of the song" and do the individual songs in the medley separately. To do this, you need to know when each song starts and ends. You actually should to this whenever the tempo changes, since the Beat Wizard has trouble with tempo changes. Use the "Preview" function of the Beat Wizards. When you have the start and end times of the song, and the preview looks good, use the "Apply" button, and then go to the next song in the medley.

After you are done with the Beat Wizard, go to the sequence and show the waveform. This will help you manually create some timing points where the tempo changes.

Then, duplicate the track, but don't duplicate the timings. Call the new track something like "lyrics". Then use the tapper wizard in the new track to turn a channel on with each tap. Repeat as necessary with other channels if you have more than one voice in the song.

Now you can use the first "Beat" track to sequence downbeats, etc., and the "Lyrics" track to edit the singing parts.

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Corey, No worries on the amount of time it takes you to sequence right now. It will be interesting to see the response to your question. First off, time in the seat helps. The more time you spend, and ultimately, songs you have, the more you learn short cuts etc... helps. Be sure you are using the keybaord shortcuts, they help a lot. I do not use the Tapper, much, but for lyrics or special items to pull out, it can help. I have used the Beat Wizard that that saved me a TON of time with just getting the beat track down. Once you get some songs down, you will have "patterns" that you can borrow. Cut and paste from other sequences into the current one helps.

Tracks has helped me more, with the ability to have multiple timings. This saves me a lot because your not mucking with timings in cells in what is now Track 1.

I still spend a lot of time per minute sequencing. I have Old Man's disease though. Some call it attention deficit :shock:. I have a tendency to work all over the place in my songs instead of either completely horizontal or vertical.

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Corey, before you or anyone start sequencing. listen to the song, maybe 50 times. get an idea about what notes or sound you want to use. where and when.
I know christmas shoes by heart because I did it for a friend, but before I started I had to hear it a couple of times. than just picked a voice and sequenced that. next I picked a piano note.
it does take time. but spending time is worth doing it with what and how you feel. it takes heart to make a good sequence, and express how you feel.
Send me a pm with an e-mail address and I show you what I mean.

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Corey -

I have to disagree with Steven... I use the tapper wizard, and find the beat wizard and the waveform practically useless. In the time it takes to use the beat wizard to get the beat to all the sections of your song figured out, I can use the tapper to get the timing down dead on. You have to know the song, and you have to focus to get the taps right. But you can judge from my videos... do I get the taps on?

Just my opinion, illustrating that one size doesn't fit all. You will have to figure out what works for you.

D.T.

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Just my 2 cents worth.

I like to listen to the song, several times, and write down what elements of my display I want to use for different parts of the song. I'll decide if I'm going to use my mini trees for the rhythm or for individual notes. For the drum beats I'll decide if I'm going use my wire frames or the lights on the house. For minor elements like the occasional trumpet, bell or other miscellaneous sound, I might use the columns on the porch or the stars on top of the mini trees. Changing it up from song to song helps with making each song different, yet allows me to focus my efforts on the current song I'm working on.

Once I've decided, I'll go through the song and sequence just that one element. Keep in mind, when you sequence the first part of the rhythm, (or other repeating element) you can cut and paste it across the song as it occurs to save time.

Then I back and add in the minor or occasional notes or sounds.

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I think 15 hours is pretty good for a typical 2:30 song. It takes me between 20 and 30 to finish a song. I think it depends on how you decide to sequence. I've tried the Tapper and Beat Wizard but I prefer just to take the total time of the sequence and multiply that times a whole number and insert those as my timings. The reason is that Beat wizard will alter the duration of each time sequence so that the timings in different parts of the song may not match. This makes it hard to copy and paste individual channels from one part of the song to the other. If all the timings are equally spaced then as long as the song does not speed up or slow down, the paste should be exact.

Plus I tend to copy the song into the sequence so that there is something happening whenever something happens in the music. The drawback being that if the music is quite, there's only a couple lights on. Another way is to turn some lights on and use the remaining lights to respond more to the volume or some other quality of the music. I'm trying to do one like that now but it is hard for me. It's a choral a cappella piece, completely different from anything I have done before.

The best songs are those that when you listen to them, give you a vision of what to do in the sequence. Parts of Wizards in Winter I could see in my head before I ever got to the sequence part.

Brian

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Burn the song to an audio disk, and listen to it in your car, during your workout, whenever you can... till you are sick of it...

THEN,

listen to it and take notes on what you want to do for certain parts. You know your display and should get a feel for what you want where...

Go into it with a plan on what element you want highlight for that song (if Applicable)....

Just my .02

Scott

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Make sure you learn all the shortcuts. Cut and paste, even from previous sequences, help a lot.

Here's a tough one to swallow. Don't try to be perfect or try to do too much. Every single part of your display doesn't have to be on at the same time. Build with the intensity, take away when the music is light.

Sometimes I can do a song in 5 hours, but the one I'm working on is a piece I put together of 25 songs. It's 12 minutes long, and it's been taking me 3 hours a minute.

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Correction. It's taking me 3 hours for 30 seconds in some parts. it's very detailed. Each part of the house represents a different part of the band. When you get this detailed. It does take a long time.

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Do most of you use .05 spacing or .10? I tried .05 and just don't like the way it works. I have found .10 is easier on the eyes, but when using the tapper wizard, I find some beats just dont stay in perfect intervals. Does that make sense? Where we are talking about .10 of a second, am I trying to be too perfect? Once the lights are on and working, will anyone notice if something is off .10 of a second, as long as everything matches? I am working on the same sequence and relying more on the beats I have put in with the tapper and so far seem to be making faster progress. Thanks for the help so far and keep the ideas coming!

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chowell wrote:

Do most of you use .05 spacing or .10?

I haven't used fixed spacing since I upgraded to S2. (Unless it's not a song, such as an animation sequence or an effect such as "Thunder and Lightning".) If I need faster timing, I duplicate the "Beat" track and then subdivide the timings by 4 or 8.

If you are having trouble using the Beat Wizard, then I'd like to hear the song you're trying to sequence. If you send it to me, I'll give it a try myself.
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I use the beat wizard.. I find it is just a tad late throughout a song so i will then run an offset on a song to match the lights... then ill make tracks... 1 track is the beat... next track is the beat / 4, then beat / 8 and if needbe beat / 16 that way im not on fixed timing but im dividind the measures of the music up so that the timings are pretty dead on...

ive been listen ing to and sequencing my songs for a long time.. yeah im in my jeep over the summer doors off top down and christmas music Jamming.... my ipod on a plane.. christmas music Jamming... till i cant stand those songs anymore... I really cant listen to cristmas music anymore without thinking.. "wow that could be cool in the light show"... I love christmas music and collect it.. and think it would be cool to someday have all 1900 tracks in the light show :)
-Christopher

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello,

Could you help me with the singing pumpkins? I want to use these this year if I can find someone that has a few songs to send to me or sell me. I can buy what you tell me to buy so this will work.



Thanks so much!!!

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Don't know if this is exactly what you want but you might find it interesting, go here:

http://www.soundofmagic.com/menu.htm

Click /Sounds of Magic/GrimGrinningGhost/DL 25th Anniversery

and download the song. Create a new sequence and use that song. Use the UV Wizard set to Peak to record the singing. I usually have to adjust it from 80% to 70% to 60 %and record on three tracks at different peaks to cover all the voices. Fix up the pumpkin tracks so they respond to the specific voices. Buy a proximity switch for outdoor lights and set it to trip your song when anyone is close to the pumpkins. Put lights in the pumpkins and viola....

Brian

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So, I guess no one wants to sell or give their sequences to others to use, am I right? I have yet to find anyone that will share there work with others. If I figure this out, I will be the one to help others understand this, I promise.......

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chowell wrote:

Do most of you use .05 spacing or .10? I tried .05 and just don't like the way it works. I have found .10 is easier on the eyes, but when using the tapper wizard, I find some beats just don't stay in perfect intervals. Does that make sense? Where we are talking about .10 of a second, am I trying to be too perfect? Once the lights are on and working, will anyone notice if something is off .10 of a second, as long as everything matches?

I am working on 8 songs with over 300 channels.
I do all of my sequences in .10 timings. It is much easier on the eyes, and it helps "keep my bearing" from song to song. Some songs that have a real fast section I will divide those cells by 2 to .05 timings. Also helps cut and paste from year to year.

If you want the tapper wizard to stay on the .10 timings marks, change the
"snap to events" from .4 to .6. If will only put a mark on the existing .10 marks.

I spend about 10 hours per minute on most songs. After watching the lights in action, I found a couple of "miss timings" that I had to point out to other people. It still took a couple of plays before they saw the errors. So I don't think that a mark off by .05 will be noticed.

Hope this helps,

Scott
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Rose,

You might try starting a new thread, this one was about timings, so you may not be hitting people that have what you want. I don't have a Halloween display, I was just toying with how to set one up and that song seemed to fit your idea also. The idea of using triggers in your display is fascinating and opens a whole possiblity of interaction that you would normallly not see in a Christmas display (as you typically don't go house to house at Christmas).

Brian

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rose wrote:

So, I guess no one wants to sell or give their sequences to others to use, am I right? I have yet to find anyone that will share there work with others. If I figure this out, I will be the one to help others understand this, I promise.......

Rose,

Brian mentioned a great idea, because hijacking a thread to ask for your kind of help will not get seen inside a thread. Make sure you have a descriptive Subject line.

Let me add a bit more color. There are a lot of people that will help you out, but you also need to do a little work yourself. There is a site, LORsequences.com that you may find sequences for Halloween. That site also has some great video made by Michael Farney that will give you a great kick start on sequencing.

You ask people outright for their hard work and creativity. That's OK. You will get some help. Understand this, right now, is a very busy time of year, people are kicking on Halloween, and the majority of us are focused entirely on our Christmas displays.

On thing you will come to understand, is that this is a time consuming passion. Make sure you start reviewing the boards many months before your intended deadlines, they contain tons of information. That is the best time to get help and expand your knowledge.

I don't mean this to be harsh and will apologize if it came across that way. I do not sequence for Halloween, but I do have a talking reindeer, Rudy, in my Christmas show. I would be glad to share one of my sequences with you so that you can see a technique for talking or singing charactors. These comments only comes based on the picture I see. You joined the forum 3 weeks ago and I understand everyone has to start somewhere. Read as much as you can on this site, and I would recommend Planet Christmas and/or Constantly Christmas as well. They have a lot of threads and forums dedicated to Halloween as well as Christmas.

Mark
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Richard Hamilton

Well, we certainly are not lacking any opinions or ideas on this thread! Just goes to show you that there are lots of good solutions.

I use the tapper wizard and the beat wizard for different purposes. I like both features and both work well for me, especially the new beat wizard.

There is no set amount of design time to expect to take on a song. It depends on song complexity, number of channels, length, and how detailed you want the result to be. My rule of thumb for amount of time it takes me to complete a song is 1 hour per minute of music per 32 channels. Again, that is just an average since some songs are faster than others. So a typical 4 minute song takes me about 16 hours to do 128 channels. I tend to put a lot of detail in my songs.

One technique I started using with LOR 2 is to create a library of short sequences that I can import into any song. Example, I have some 15 second sequences of my megatree slowly rotating and fading from one color to another. I use it when I want a background effect where light changes are not timed to music such as during a "dreamy" part of "White Christmas" or similar slow song. I have patterns for fast songs. Of course, there are also times when I want to time the changes to music so that is the nice thing about a new feature of LOR 2. You can cut and paste one of those sequences into time slots of a new song and LOR will automatically adjust it. Think about that one for a minute.

Finally, as a couple of people have said, rehearse the song in your mind. Yeah, I could look at a photo of my house, but I rather sit outside in the cul de sac in a lawn chair to view and make notes as I listen to the song a few times.

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rose wrote:

So, I guess no one wants to sell or give their sequences to others to use, am I right? I have yet to find anyone that will share there work with others. If I figure this out, I will be the one to help others understand this, I promise.......

Rose, not only have you brought this up in the wrong thread. There are tons of free sequences out there.
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I'm a newbie also. How do you find free LOR sequences? Not that thay helps you much.

I did download a couple from one of the guys over at Planetchristmas but about the only thing I could use was the beat track and the mp3. It's weird but even with the exact same number of channels, his display was so different than mine that it didn't translate at all.

Brian

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When I start a new sequence I will use .05 for the main track then will have maybe 6-7 different tracks and use beat wizard with different timing marks. When I do my song voices on the coro I use the 0.05 or 0.04 and will move timinig if need be. A three minute song will take me about 20 hours if it is fast a little less if slow and that is just for the voices. This year my mega tree is taking forever.

Oh and 640 channels this year so all songs are taking longer than the 400 or so last year.

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