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Which LED'S work best


Ralph A
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I bought some LED's after Christmas last year and the do not fade or blink. Also, some LED's the leans or colored cover if you will, does not come off. Making it hard to impossible to use on homemade wood projects.

After some research I believe I'm looking for what is called "Full Wave" LED's? Is that correct. Also, I need to buy some where I can remove the lens cover to place it through my wood cutouts. Any ideas on which LED's to Buy M-5, C-6, C-7 Help Please!!



Ralph

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Okay, I'll check that out. Thanks for the advice. Ralph

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In order to get your LED's to work with LOR, you will need a good quality LED, which has a rectifier in them. The difference between the full wave and half wave LED's are simply going to be their brightness. Half wave are not nearly as bright as the full wave, and seem to have a flicker which can bother some peoples eyes....mine included. Full wave LED's are much brighter and don't bother the eyes as much. Also, replaceable c-9 and c-7 LED's do not dim. They only go on and off. In most cases, using them with LOR will cut their life drastically. I purchase all my LED's from Travis at LED Holiday Lighting. He was great to work with and all his products are awesome. I just received all my pre-order stuff from him last week and it all work great with LOR.

www.ledholidaylighting.com

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M5's in cut out is going to be difficult but can work. The M5 bulbs are thinner than the socket as opposed to a screw in. You want to stay away from the screw in for the time being in LED. They do not last long if you ramp and fade them. They burn out quickly.

You do want full wave. They look best, however, even some of the more recent half wave are better than in years past. Do you homework on them. Order samples etc...

There are several LED vendors out there. LED Holiday Lighting, Creative Displays, Action Lighting, Reinders, etc... again, check into it. They all sell reputable products and I have used LEDs from each of the above.

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  • 2 months later...
Richard Hamilton

Ponddude wrote:

I purchase all my LED's from Travis at LED Holiday Lighting. He was great to work with and all his products are awesome. I just received all my pre-order stuff from him last week and it all work great with LOR.

http://www.ledholidaylighting.com


We also ordered several hundred LED strings from Travis, and I agree that the LEDs are really good quality and well sealed. He's got a good manufacturer. There were no failures out of the box. Also, this guy is the most responsive vendor I ever met. Sometimes I think he doesn't eat or sleep.

Having said the above, we are having some minor issues that I have not yet resolved. Symptoms point to Triac fading issues. About 4% of the lights we put in the trees are showing the old problem of flickering at low brightness settings, and not fading off/on correctly even when trying them on different LOR channels and units. I haven't tried snubbers on them yet, but my guess is it will solve the problem.

I had hoped not to need any snubbers in the display and Travis mentioned that these lights should absolutely be guaranteed to work with LOR. With that statement in mind, I am taking another guess that there might be an occasional defect in the full wave rectification on a string of lights.

Example, we have 8 multi-colored strings plugged end-to-end. The whole series flickers at low intensity. I'm thinking that if any one of the rectifiers in any one of the strings has failed or was manufactured incorrectly, the whole series will show flickering. On another series of red leds there is a similar problem. I'm going to build a few snubbers and send them back to Texas for testing.
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  • 2 weeks later...
Richard Hamilton

Just coming back to post added information about my above comments. Our solution to flickering lights was to add snubbers to some channels. The client was not happy about that because it was extra work and supposedly these lights were guaranteed to not need snubbers, yet we had to add them to 15 of the 240 channels. That's not a bad ratio I guess, yet we expected not to need any. In summary, it appears that even some full-wave rectified strings need snubbers for a reason that is not fully clear until we take down the lights and experiment in January.

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Dennis Cherry

Richard Hamilton wrote:

Just coming back to post added information about my above comments. Our solution to flickering lights was to add snubbers to some channels. The client was not happy about that because it was extra work and supposedly these lights were guaranteed to not need snubbers, yet we had to add them to 15 of the 240 channels. That's not a bad ratio I guess, yet we expected not to need any. In summary, it appears that even some full-wave rectified strings need snubbers for a reason that is not fully clear until we take down the lights and experiment in January.

The reason for the snubbers is not the LED fault, its because the traics are not turning off reliably.

I put snubbers on all LED strings that I thought would need drastic revisions in the sequences to make them work right, the snubbers (33K 2w to 47K 1w) fixed this well enough that no modification to the sequences was needed. I am using the 47K 1w for my snubbers.

I am using both full and 1/2 wave LED's and they look good. no flicker issues on the 1/2 wave either.
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Richard Hamilton

Dennis Cherry wrote:

Richard Hamilton wrote:
Just coming back to post added information about my above comments. Our solution to flickering lights was to add snubbers to some channels. The client was not happy about that because it was extra work and supposedly these lights were guaranteed to not need snubbers, yet we had to add them to 15 of the 240 channels. That's not a bad ratio I guess, yet we expected not to need any. In summary, it appears that even some full-wave rectified strings need snubbers for a reason that is not fully clear until we take down the lights and experiment in January.

The reason for the snubbers is not the LED fault, its because the traics are not turning off reliably.

I put snubbers on all LED strings that I thought would need drastic revisions in the sequences to make them work right, the snubbers (33K 2w to 47K 1w) fixed this well enough that no modification to the sequences was needed. I am using the 47K 1w for my snubbers.

I am using both full and 1/2 wave LED's and they look good. no flicker issues on the 1/2 wave either.

Hi Dennis, yup, I am well aware that the triacs are the reason for the appearance. I was just surprised to need them since in theory the triacs should be seeing a constant load as the full-wave LEDs are conducting on both halfs of the AC cycle. And further, if I recall correctly from my emails, Travis was sure there would be no problems with the LEDs. By the way, you only need a 1/2 watt resistor for 33K Ohm. Those fit in tighter spaces like the clamshell plugs.
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Dennis Cherry

Richard Hamilton wrote:

Dennis Cherry wrote:
Richard Hamilton wrote:
Just coming back to post added information about my above comments. Our solution to flickering lights was to add snubbers to some channels. The client was not happy about that because it was extra work and supposedly these lights were guaranteed to not need snubbers, yet we had to add them to 15 of the 240 channels. That's not a bad ratio I guess, yet we expected not to need any. In summary, it appears that even some full-wave rectified strings need snubbers for a reason that is not fully clear until we take down the lights and experiment in January.

The reason for the snubbers is not the LED fault, its because the traics are not turning off reliably.

I put snubbers on all LED strings that I thought would need drastic revisions in the sequences to make them work right, the snubbers (33K 2w to 47K 1w) fixed this well enough that no modification to the sequences was needed. I am using the 47K 1w for my snubbers.

I am using both full and 1/2 wave LED's and they look good. no flicker issues on the 1/2 wave either.

Hi Dennis, yup, I am well aware that the triacs are the reason for the appearance. I was just surprised to need them since in theory the triacs should be seeing a constant load as the full-wave LEDs are conducting on both halfs of the AC cycle. And further, if I recall correctly from my emails, Travis was sure there would be no problems with the LEDs. By the way, you only need a 1/2 watt resistor for 33K Ohm. Those fit in tighter spaces like the clamshell plugs.



Calculations show it a 0.437 watts, too close for a 1/2 watt resistor. It was recommend to use a 2 watt so the resistor does not get real hot for a 33K.

Metal film is the best and the smallest, carbon film is second.

Do not use Carbon Composition.
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Richard Hamilton

Dennis Cherry wrote:

Calculations show it a 0.437 watts, too close for a 1/2 watt resistor. It was recommend to use a 2 watt so the resistor does not get real hot for a 33K.

Metal film is the best and the smallest, carbon film is second.

Do not use Carbon Composition.

Yup, a larger wattage resistor always gives more margin. I just couldn't fit anything bigger than 1/2 Watt in my shells. I figure 1/2 Watt is still safe enough since there is still at least 12% safety margin from the rated value, and the fact that the average wattage is going to be much lower during a show due to varying voltages. During shows, I never keep anything fully bright anyway to save energy and that is the only time when the resistor would be at max wattage dissipation anyway.

Dennis, just out of curiosity, why not carbon comp? (aside from accuracy)
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GE brand works great for me!! And you can buy them at your local Lowes They Fad, Shimmer, Shake and Dance :D

I bought some Home Depot brand ones but they are not full wave, but I made them work when I plugged a 85 watt floodLight into them.

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Dennis Cherry

Richard Hamilton wrote:

Dennis Cherry wrote:
Calculations show it a 0.437 watts, too close for a 1/2 watt resistor. It was recommend to use a 2 watt so the resistor does not get real hot for a 33K.

Metal film is the best and the smallest, carbon film is second.

Do not use Carbon Composition.

Yup, a larger wattage resistor always gives more margin. I just couldn't fit anything bigger than 1/2 Watt in my shells. I figure 1/2 Watt is still safe enough since there is still at least 12% safety margin from the rated value, and the fact that the average wattage is going to be much lower during a show due to varying voltages. During shows, I never keep anything fully bright anyway to save energy and that is the only time when the resistor would be at max wattage dissipation anyway.

Dennis, just out of curiosity, why not carbon comp? (aside from accuracy)

Accuracy, larger and noisy . Can give you grief in some circuits so best to not consider them as the carbon film are better, price is slightly higher. Metal films are the smallest per watt but higher in price. I can get a 1 watt carbon film inside a male SPT-2 vampire plug just fine. Just offset it to one side between the two contact points.
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how do you tell the difference between full and half wave led's ?
I#m still trying to find out if I can split my led strings up into halfs or quarters. They're ac so apparently have a rectifier in the controller.

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how do you tell the difference between full and half wave led's ?
I#m still trying to find out if I can split my led strings up into halfs or quarters. They're ac so apparently have a rectifier in the controller.

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Because of some of the flickering people have encountered we have made up 100's of these snubbers and are free to anyone who has purchased from us. We have found if you are using 8 strands or less on a channel that you may encounter some flickering and that too sometime depends on the color white being the most noticeable. The easiest solution we have found is to plug the snubber into the the back of strand that either connects to the LOR unit or the one closest to the LOR unit connected to the extension cord.

So again if anyone has bought from us this year and need some of these please feel free to email me and I will send you some.

Thanks!

Travis Fremming
http://www.ledholidaylighting.com

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The thing about LED’s that the wife and I do not like is that they are to bright, intense colors, electronic feeling to them. They do not have that warm Christmas feeling. Maybe we have not seen the right ones or do they make some that are more warmer to the eyes?

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Richard Hamilton

dotyb wrote:

The thing about LED’s that the wife and I do not like is that they are to bright, intense colors, electronic feeling to them. They do not have that warm Christmas feeling. Maybe we have not seen the right ones or do they make some that are more warmer to the eyes?

That is an interesting comment. I know what you mean. All I can say is that of the visitors that come to my house and see the outside display, they love the color and few of them can determine for sure if they are LED or not. For our indoor Christmas tree, we prefer to use incandescant lights that give more of the "warm" look that you are talking about (tungston filaments that generate more light in the low red spectrum).

An up, power savings are HUGE.... less than 20% of the energy consumed by incandescant.
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Makes note not to buy from ledholiday lighting...ignores questions.
You'd have to be pretty poor sighted to not tell the difference between incandecent and led. They are a lot brighter, sharper, flickery, was pointing out to someone last night which ones in town are led and which ones are incandescents. Even the warm light led's you can tell, not as much but you can.

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Richard Hamilton

Madhatter wrote:

Makes note not to buy from ledholiday lighting...ignores questions.
You'd have to be pretty poor sighted to not tell the difference between incandecent and led. They are a lot brighter, sharper, flickery, was pointing out to someone last night which ones in town are led and which ones are incandescents. Even the warm light led's you can tell, not as much but you can.

Hmmm, my experience with LedHolidayLighting was superb. I called and emailed many times over last 3 months and received prompt replies... often within minutes! The LEDs look wonderful, price was good, and only a few channels needed snubbers. It was unexpected, yet with most other LEDs I've had to use snubbers on every channel depending on the supplier. Overall, I am happy and will buy again. And actually, I think it is a nice customer service gesture to offer snubbers to the customers that might have issues.

You, I, and others can tell the difference between LEDs, but the general public seems pretty dumb about what they look like or what they are.
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dotyb wrote:

The thing about LED’s that the wife and I do not like is that they are to bright, intense colors, electronic feeling to them. They do not have that warm Christmas feeling. Maybe we have not seen the right ones or do they make some that are more warmer to the eyes?


You are not alone I feel the same way. They just don't have the traditional look to them. They are rather cool looking but not my style. So you really can't mix them in well with incandescent without people noticing.

So on that note I am wanting to replace my C9s with the LED C9s ones here....

http://www.actionlighting.com/item-detail.asp?ID=2114&MainCategory=L.E.D.&Sub=LED%20Specialty%20Bulbs

Now I know it is not the one pictured, but it says warm white. Is this the traditional incandescent clear color? If so that is what I am looking for because I don't like that soft white LED look. Also does anyone have any experience with these. I wish they would take pics of them lit up so you could see.

These would be perfect if it is what I am looking for. My house uses 14 strands of C9 so that is 21 amps right off the bat right there. If I could go to these LED replacements with my strands I could save channels and it would only pull not even a full amp. Gotta love that!!!
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LED 3 color rope light dimming question...


For my house this year I bought 164 reel of 3 color LED rope light, like this link:

http://www.birddogdistributing.com/color-changing-rope-light-controller-p-766.html led-rgb-cut-end-small.jpg

It comes with a very minimal controller, that I never used, but I did notice that the plugin cord adaptor had a bridge recitifer, similar to this one:

259688.jpgRECTIFIER,NTE170,BR8D,SI 1000V,2A,SINGLE PHASE,BRIDGE



The rope light specs are:

Energy efficient--only consumes 1.5 watts per foot and is Dimmable (65 feet equals 98 watts)

My setup: I use the lightorama 16 channel controller. When i tested it i used a 10 foot strand and it was dimmable. This long strand, rather these two 65' long strands plugged into the same circuit, do not dim, but go out completely at an intensity setting of about 5%. I've experimented a bit and see that if i only use one length of the 65 foot section, it will dim, but when i use them both, it wont dim. i suspect the watts max out the triac's.

remember, there is no bridge rectifier in my wiring, i just go right into the rope lite.

Options: buy another controller to be able to accomodate the 3 extra channels needed, or inquire of you if some sort of diode, snubber or rectifier would work.

ps, i converted my 32 channel mega tree to LED's this year, and couldn't be happier. Travis at seasonal impressions is great.

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Richard Hamilton

Richard Hamilton wrote:

dotyb wrote:
The thing about LED’s that the wife and I do not like is that they are to bright, intense colors, electronic feeling to them. They do not have that warm Christmas feeling. Maybe we have not seen the right ones or do they make some that are more warmer to the eyes?

That is an interesting comment. I know what you mean. All I can say is that of the visitors that come to my house and see the outside display, they love the color and few of them can determine for sure if they are LED or not. For our indoor Christmas tree, we prefer to use incandescant lights that give more of the "warm" look that you are talking about (tungston filaments that generate more light in the low red spectrum).

An up, power savings are HUGE.... less than 20% of the energy consumed by incandescant.

I'm just coming back in to say I recently saw some LEDs that might change your opinion about how LEDs don't have that warm look?

Yesterday I got a sample of several rugged individual LED bulbs that screw into various size bases. Serveral of them were C7 & C9. When I plugged them in I was to surprised to see a nicer warm glow to those bulbs. It had me fooled for a second into thinking maybe they were not LED bulbs. The impression I got is that maybe these bulbs are not yet available for sale, so you might have to wait until next year. It will be interested to see how much these things cost and what people think about them.
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There is a shopping center down the street from me that is using C9 LEDs and they are white but they are a true white instead of that bluish white. I could handle those if they are not the warm white. I just don't like those ones that have the bluish tent. I just would like to know where I could find some like those that would work.

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