LOR S4 and Windows 10 issues

[JohnMck]

I have LOR S4 that I purchased last Sept2017 running on Windows 10 Home version Laptop.  When I first installed LOR S4 and opened the sequence editor to start developing a new sequence,  I got an error message that the editor could not convert it to the LOR format, that the beat wizard was not available, and the waveform was not available.  in fact none of the wizards were available.  the song played ok though.

I trouble shot with LOR techs to no results.  I stumbled on to creating a new user in windows, trying the sequence editor, and suddenly it worked.  now I have upgraded S4 from Advanced to Pro and now the same problem is recurring.

has anyone experienced the same?  and any suggestion?  I would hate to create another user in windows every time I update to a new version of S4.    thanks in advance!!!

John

[PhilMassey]

Two things occur to me as being worth investigating.

Firstly trouble with the audio waveform or wizards suggests looking at the audio format. Ii should be a constant bit rate MP3 at 128 kbps or a .WAV. People frequently report issues with variable bit rate files not working reliably. Use an audio editor to convert the file to 128kbps and constant bit rate. Audacity is free and widely used.

If that does not help, it sounds like Windows issues and why a new user would help is beyond me unless there is something corrupt in the Windows installation.

If it were my machine, I would nuke it and do a CLEAN install of Windows using the Media Creation Tool available for download from Microsoft. Windows installs get crudded up over time and It may be time for a good spring clean. Most of my windows boxes get wiped at least once a year.

Get a USB thumb drive and create a bootable install drive. Don't forget to BACKUP everything first. The whole point of this is to start from scratch, so all your applications will need to be re installed too.

Good luck.

[dibblejr]

May I add to PhilMassey comment.

When you open audacity make sure the project rate is set to 4400 hz (bottom left corner for me but my version is older. It may in a different location on newer versions.

Normally once you set Audacity up the first time you never have to adjust again (for our purpose).

As far as Beat Wizard -  I think you have to turn that on in Tools "Beat Wizard". Remember Beat Wizard will not appear until you actually have your working grid. That may have been your problem. If no song, no working grid, no wizards would show under tools. Everything would have been grey in that area.

If SE does not find the song all else will not work.

 

JR

Edited February 12, 2018 by dibblejr

[dibblejr]

Also- Some of us have experienced problems with our computers and anything higher than 4.3.18. (not including S5) Last I spoke with LOR it was "just me". Yesterday another member reported having similar issues so now I can say "some".

You may want to remove completely S4 and start out with 4.3.18

I had 3 computers that did not like .24 and after all but setting them on fire I went back to .18 and my problems were solved. Previous to that I had no issues with newer versions.

JR

[JohnMck]

thanks to all....,

I tried 4.3.18 --I have the same issue with that version;

I used audacity to get 128K CBR  -- so far to no avail;

the only thing I have yet to try is to do a clean install of windows.  Phil - when you say "nuke it" you mean erase and reformat the disk and then do a new install.  Correct?

thanks

JohnMcK

[dibblejr]

4 minutes ago, JohnMck said:

thanks to all....,

I tried 4.3.18 --I have the same issue with that version;

I used audacity to get 128K CBR  -- so far to no avail;

the only thing I have yet to try is to do a clean install of windows.  Phil - when you say "nuke it" you mean erase and reformat the disk and then do a new install.  Correct?

thanks

JohnMcK

Once you have an issue with 1 version in all probability you will have the issue until you do the full uninstall. LOR HD can assist you with the uninstall process. If they are still doing it the same way there is a file they will send you or a link to follow. This will fully and properly remove LOR so you can do a clean install. I've been there about 4 times through my ordeal.

You should fill out a HD ticket.

JR

[PhilMassey]

Yeah. Any time you have to reinstall always do a clean format. It will be in the installer options at the beginning of the install.

No need to erase. The format is enough.

[LOR Staff]

For the OPs issue:

Many things can cause that conversion to fail.  The two most common are badly encoded files (which have been discussed) and permissions problems.

If the SE can't get access to it's internal files, say because you installed the software under user "A" and are now trying to use the software with user "B" who does not have Windows Permissions to read the internal files created by "A", you will see that same error.  The easy solution is to always use the same user account when using the LOR software as the one you installed it with.  Alternatively, you can move the LOR Data files to the 'Public Documents' folder ( you will need to run LOR Post or Re-install to do that).  You could also grant the correct permissions to the other user.  

What I am most concerned with however is that you say you asked us for help and got no results.  Please post or PM me your help desk ticket so I can look at your issue.

------

JR:  I think you and I talked about this before, and something tells me that I may have already posted something like this somewhere else.  But this is a good place to give some info...

I absolutely 100% believe you when you say 4.3.18 fixes it and 4.3.24 is broken.  I am not blaming you or in any way trying to belittle or berate.  If I could find something to fix the issue I would.  I know exactly where you are coming from.  If I didn't know as much as I do about programming Windows I would be on your side.  But since I've been doing this now since DOS 2

I have gone through the differences between 4.3.18 and 4.3.24 many times.  While I don't doubt that you are having an issue with 4.3.24 and 4.3.18 seems to fix it, I don't see anything in there that we changed. 

On the other hand, I can think of multiple different things that go wrong in Windows itself that would cause that to happen.  For example, if one of our DLLs is somehow 'stuck' (technical term for something is borked in the registry that is preventing an old DLL from being completely removed.  Borked is also technical.) on the 4.3.18 version, weird things could happen in 4.3.24.  Going back to 4.3.18 changes the references/DLLsignature/DLL itself back to 'the stuck' 4.3.18 DLL and all is right again.

I understand the frustration --  to you the end user, if 4.3.24 don't work and 4.3.18 does, then there is a problem with 4.3.24.  Pretty simple -- what has changed is where the issue is and in 9 out of 10 cases you would be correct.  But what many forget is that Windows is CONSTANTLY changing it's environment.  Not just with updates (which are obvious), but by simply having the computer on. Indexing is occurring, background processes start and stop.  Don't believe me?  Disconnect your computer from the internet.  install a fresh new copy of Windows on the computer.  Don't do ANYTHING else.  Leave it on for a day, a week, a month.  During that time watch the HDD activity light.  It blinks.  blinking = windows is doing something, which in turn can be making changes to the registry, OS files, logs, etc.  While 99.995% of the time those changes amount to a hill of beans, that .005% does come up and bite us -and it's completely outside of our control.

FYI:  We do get these types of problems from time to time.  There is one thing that will fix them, and I absolutely HATE to give this answer - even if I know it will fix the issue:  Reformat the computer.  Since the start of computer help desks (not just ours), companies have used that 'fix' to just get you off the phone.  They know that is a large undertaking (sometimes a couple of days to get things completely back together), or that you have so much stuff on your computer you won't do it.  All those 3rd world help desks ruined this solution by OVER using it, but at some point Windows will get SO polluted the only thing to do is clean it out. (Yes:  It happens to me.  Yes, I reformat)

 

[Mr. P]

I have been running 4.3.24 on Windows 7 since it came out. A few weeks ago my windows 7, LOR programming computer crashed and windows stated it could not be fixed and to insert the orginal Windows install disk and reinstall windows. Well my computer came with windows 7 installed but came with a Windows 10 install disk so I couldn't reinstall 7 and had to put 10 on it.

I remeber people having issue when 10 first came out so once the computer was up and running again the first thing I did was put 4.3.24 on it to see what happens. So far everything is working fine, Windows has done all its updates and everything seems to be fine. Now my programming computer is Windows 10 and my show computer is Wndows 7 and so far I don't have any issues going back and forth, KNOCK ON WOOD!

[dibblejr]

37 minutes ago, DevMike said:

For the OPs issue:

Many things can cause that conversion to fail.  The two most common are badly encoded files (which have been discussed) and permissions problems.

If the SE can't get access to it's internal files, say because you installed the software under user "A" and are now trying to use the software with user "B" who does not have Windows Permissions to read the internal files created by "A", you will see that same error.  The easy solution is to always use the same user account when using the LOR software as the one you installed it with.  Alternatively, you can move the LOR Data files to the 'Public Documents' folder ( you will need to run LOR Post or Re-install to do that).  You could also grant the correct permissions to the other user.  

What I am most concerned with however is that you say you asked us for help and got no results.  Please post or PM me your help desk ticket so I can look at your issue.

------

JR:  I think you and I talked about this before, and something tells me that I may have already posted something like this somewhere else.  But this is a good place to give some info...

I absolutely 100% believe you when you say 4.3.18 fixes it and 4.3.24 is broken.  I am not blaming you or in any way trying to belittle or berate.  If I could find something to fix the issue I would.  I know exactly where you are coming from.  If I didn't know as much as I do about programming Windows I would be on your side.  But since I've been doing this now since DOS 2

I have gone through the differences between 4.3.18 and 4.3.24 many times.  While I don't doubt that you are having an issue with 4.3.24 and 4.3.18 seems to fix it, I don't see anything in there that we changed. 

On the other hand, I can think of multiple different things that go wrong in Windows itself that would cause that to happen.  For example, if one of our DLLs is somehow 'stuck' (technical term for something is borked in the registry that is preventing an old DLL from being completely removed.  Borked is also technical.) on the 4.3.18 version, weird things could happen in 4.3.24.  Going back to 4.3.18 changes the references/DLLsignature/DLL itself back to 'the stuck' 4.3.18 DLL and all is right again.

I understand the frustration --  to you the end user, if 4.3.24 don't work and 4.3.18 does, then there is a problem with 4.3.24.  Pretty simple -- what has changed is where the issue is and in 9 out of 10 cases you would be correct.  But what many forget is that Windows is CONSTANTLY changing it's environment.  Not just with updates (which are obvious), but by simply having the computer on. Indexing is occurring, background processes start and stop.  Don't believe me?  Disconnect your computer from the internet.  install a fresh new copy of Windows on the computer.  Don't do ANYTHING else.  Leave it on for a day, a week, a month.  During that time watch the HDD activity light.  It blinks.  blinking = windows is doing something, which in turn can be making changes to the registry, OS files, logs, etc.  While 99.995% of the time those changes amount to a hill of beans, that .005% does come up and bite us -and it's completely outside of our control.

FYI:  We do get these types of problems from time to time.  There is one thing that will fix them, and I absolutely HATE to give this answer - even if I know it will fix the issue:  Reformat the computer.  Since the start of computer help desks (not just ours), companies have used that 'fix' to just get you off the phone.  They know that is a large undertaking (sometimes a couple of days to get things completely back together), or that you have so much stuff on your computer you won't do it.  All those 3rd world help desks ruined this solution by OVER using it, but at some point Windows will get SO polluted the only thing to do is clean it out. (Yes:  It happens to me.  Yes, I reformat)

 

Mike, yes you and I discussed this on the phone along with others prior to you.

Trust me I never said .24 was broken, the reason I upgraded was for the SS changes and my great friend James had .24 for quite a while without errors. Others have had no problems in that 1%.

it just didn’t work error free on any of my 3 computers. At the time I was told nobody else had similar issues but engineering would continue to research.

i reformatted 2 of the 3 computers but that didn’t work. Couldn’t/ didn’t want to do 3rd due to the amount of time I was losing.

i am content with .18 and am running the .24 SS edit. 

You know I’m one of LOR’s biggest fans so not once did I get harsh. Getting upset or angry, rude never works. Calmer heads prevail.

You and the other staff have always treated me respectful and that’s a two way street.

Thank you

JR

Edited February 13, 2018 by dibblejr

[dibblejr]

9 minutes ago, Mr. P said:

I have been running 4.3.24 on Windows 7 since it came out. A few weeks ago my windows 7, LOR programming computer crashed and windows stated it could not be fixed and to insert the orginal Windows install disk and reinstall windows. Well my computer came with windows 7 installed but came with a Windows 10 install disk so I couldn't reinstall 7 and had to put 10 on it.

I remeber people having issue when 10 first came out so once the computer was up and running again the first thing I did was put 4.3.24 on it to see what happens. So far everything is working fine, Windows has done all its updates and everything seems to be fine. Now my programming computer is Windows 10 and my show computer is Wndows 7 and so far I don't have any issues going back and forth, KNOCK ON WOOD!

Mine worked fine for 2-3 weeks with .24. I put a sequence in one day that the ramping was prior to the song and went longer than the duration. S4 didn’t catch it. That was when my problems started.

Brian helped me out a lot and everything worked well for 2 days and then went south from there.

i spent many hours total on phone with HD but was told must be HDD. Formatted and same prob. On to 2nd computer immediately noticed prob- formatted same results.

Third computer and same so no formatt. Was told bad HDD’s. 

Afrer over a week just went back to .18 and no problems other than the occasional hanging, skipping while producing singing faces.

i think SE doesn’t like Digitally reproduced/ enhances older music, but that’s my non programmer opinion.

JR

[Mr. P]

36 minutes ago, dibblejr said:

 

i spent many hours total on phone with HD but was told must be HDD. Formatted and same prob. On to 2nd computer immediately noticed prob- formatted same results.

Third computer and same so no formatt. Was told bad HDD’s. 

JR

 

Did you ever find out if it was the HDD's? All my computers use SSD's so I wonder if that will make a difference?

[dibblejr]

3 minutes ago, Mr. P said:

 

Did you ever find out if it was the HDD's? All my computers use SSD's so I wonder if that will make a difference?

I spent time on phone with Seagate and they did the backups on both computers , found no badsectors.

Both computers were brand new well less than year old. 

Both came with win10 Home premium.

Of course desktop processor was faster one video card AMD Raytheon if that’s who makes it.

The third was a win 7 desktop that I installed win10 when it was free upgrade.

i have since retired the old desktop.

The only computer I had left was my sequencing laptop so that ran the Halloween show while I awaited my brand new gaming laptop.

JR

[dibblejr]

My new gaming laptop is the very top of line with 2 SSD drives and best processor , video and graphics cards with top memory installed and on catds

JR

[Gary Levelius]

One other thing that no one mentioned, and it's one I've run into, is using Windows 10 home. I've ALWAYS used the PRO version of every version of Windows since NT 4.0. Sometimes there subtle differences that can cause issue such as this.

-Gary-

[dibblejr]

One of the big problems is reporting. If users having problems would take a little time to report them that would help engineers try to figure it out.

As in my case “they never saw that problem nor has anyone else reported it”.

Since I am not a computer or software tech I could only do what I could at my level and then report to HD.

I have not had any major issues since reverting back to 4.3.18 so I’m going back to my old , if it’s not broke don’t fix it mentality.

JR

 

[Gary Levelius]

14 hours ago, dibblejr said:

One of the big problems is reporting. If users having problems would take a little time to report them that would help engineers try to figure it out.

As in my case “they never saw that problem nor has anyone else reported it”.

Since I am not a computer or software tech I could only do what I could at my level and then report to HD.

I have not had any major issues since reverting back to 4.3.18 so I’m going back to my old , if it’s not broke don’t fix it mentality.

JR

 

JR, that's why the Time Warner people in tech support loved hearing from me when RoadRunner first came to my area. They loved talking with someone as computer literate as I was at the time cause I actually knew what they were asking Heck, I called so often with problems that they knew my voice and who I was as soon as I spoke I was lucky they didn't block me

-Gary-

[dibblejr]

9 hours ago, Gary Levelius said:

JR, that's why the Time Warner people in tech support loved hearing from me when RoadRunner first came to my area. They loved talking with someone as computer literate as I was at the time cause I actually knew what they were asking Heck, I called so often with problems that they knew my voice and who I was as soon as I spoke I was lucky they didn't block me

-Gary-

That’s probably me and LOR HD! 

JK- Mike and gang has been very helpful and patient.

JR

[Gary Levelius]

Nah, JR, they probably got you blocked by now And actually, Mike and I have about the same amount of time, I came in at DOS 3.0

Oh those days of CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT that today's youngsters will never see

-Gary-

Edited February 18, 2018 by Gary Levelius

[dibblejr]

52 minutes ago, Gary Levelius said:

Nah, JR, they probably got you blocked by now And actually, Mike and I have about the same amount of time, I came in at DOS 3.0

Oh those days of CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT that today's youngsters will never see

-Gary-

Tell me it isn’t so. I thought I was giving them all a break. 

I don’t get the emoticons on my phone LOL

JR