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What are you adding to your show this year?


Mr. P

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2 hours ago, Santas Helper said:

But... you neglected to mention the SAVINGS with using LEDS.

I have a mega tree with 20,000 LEDs. I can imagine how much power usage difference there is if those were icans. And no way could I use one circuit to run my entire show, including my mega tree. Would probably need several more controllers to run those icans. Icans are power eaters. No question about it.

LEDs last longer as well so now buying less lights/bulbs. I'm talkin about the ican bulbs that fade or burn out. LEDs don't

So save at the beginning with sales on icans? Or save at the end with less controllers, less light/bulb replacement and lower electricity bill? :)

Got to differ with you on the burning out issue with L.E.D.'s because I have had L.E.D.'s burn out, not as much as the older steel lead ones rusted away, but I have had some literally die, just doesn't happen as much with L.E.D.'s as it does with incandescents.  I have 4 arches that still use incans, I am ALWAYS tracking down and replacing burned out bulbs in those strands!   EVERY YEAR I may replace 15-40 bulbs during the season due to incan burn out.  The L.E.D. strands, maybe 1 to 3 at most a season, if that, if I have to replace an L.E.D. bulb.  I have some L.E.D. strands going on 10 years old or so and have never replaced any L.E.D. bulbs in them.     Plus if I drop an L.E.D. strand, no broken bulbs, getting out needle nose pliers to try and dig the broken glass bulb out or what's left of it, usually very little.  And if the strand is on as I string it along, if the L.E.D. hits something or gets jostled hard, no filament to get broken either, they stay lit, like the old Timex watches, they take a lick'n and keep on burn'n!   Definitely can't say that for incans, no way, no how.   Plus how many times have you felt the HEAT of an strand of incans?   Those things can make great fire starters if you aren't careful with them.   Aside from the Arsonistic Martha Stewart L.E.D. strands that others have stated burst into flames, all my strands run cool, can be held and suffer no ill effects {unless you're stupid enough to work with them in the rain and they may give you a nice jolt!{unsealed ones mainly, sealed ones may/may not give you that nice warm, fuzzy feeling if your hands are wet.:o:lol:

And as for the cost savings being WAY DOWN the road, that IS A MYTH!   My savings tallied up very well the first year I went to almost all L.E.D. strands, my power bill dropped from an additional $200+ in the Season to less than $40 for the same amount of L.E.D. lights in my display.

So no one will ever convince me the savings come later or you pay for the savings up front, from MY perspective and experience using L.E.D.'s that's just a load of hogwash!

In all reality this ALL BOILS DOWN TO PERSONAL PREFERENCES!

And that's going to my final say on this debate.    

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48 minutes ago, Santas Helper said:

So Mr P forgets to add the cost of controllers and such to power the icans. It's understandable. Spend your money on controllers and power bill. We both know icans don't last that long when they fade as well. You talk about usage or life of the bulbs, but not the impact of the weather nor the normal failure rate with icans as we all well know. :) 

UncleDan, what do you think Pixels and RGB are made with? LEDs............. :)

And UncleDan, the controllers don't hold their value like they did several years ago. Unless you........ :o. No.......

So I'm done here since we can go on and on. No need arguing further.

There is a reason people are switching to or starting with LEDs. You surely don't hear them going back. :lol:

 

I know they're LED's... didn't think that is the direction it was going.  I made the jump hesitantly from close to 100k incans to all RGB last year.  I averaged $150 or so for the controllers when I sold them.  Most of them the 1602's.  I still have 8 left. Someday soon may be considered an antique lol.  I hated LEDS and fought transitioning from incans for years.  No looking back now.  Added close to 15,000 pixels this year.  Way  more money goes into  an incan display than LED for sure.  I reckon I've spent several thousand dollars on just 12ga extension cords to power the controllers.  Now all in storage...  Pretty soon wont be able to buy incans so get them while you can.  I notice less and less every year at the big box stores.  Prices go up, quality goes down and they just don't last like LEDS.  Just my two cents from a long time Incan lover that swore I would never go LED.  All blinky is good! 

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I'm 65 and the math they taught me back in the 50's and 60's still holds true and always will. In the breakdown I gave if we both had the same display and money to spend on it and you used LED, all you could do is buy the 1,000 strands of lights.....I'd be able to buy the 1,000 strands of lights, controllers, wire, connectors and replacement bulbs and pay for the electricity needed to use them. Here's the real clincher. Most people that view my display THINK I am using LED.

BTW....this is a healthy discussion, not an argument.

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31 minutes ago, Orville said:

Got to differ with you on the burning out issue with L.E.D.'s because I have had L.E.D.'s burn out, not as much as the older steel lead ones rusted away, but I have had some literally die, just doesn't happen as much with L.E.D.'s as it does with incandescents.  I have 4 arches that still use incans, I am ALWAYS tracking down and replacing burned out bulbs in those strands!   EVERY YEAR I may replace 15-40 bulbs during the season due to incan burn out.  The L.E.D. strands, maybe 1 to 3 at most a season, if that, if I have to replace an L.E.D. bulb.  I have some L.E.D. strands going on 10 years old or so and have never replaced any L.E.D. bulbs in them.     Plus if I drop an L.E.D. strand, no broken bulbs, getting out needle nose pliers to try and dig the broken glass bulb out or what's left of it, usually very little.  And if the strand is on as I string it along, if the L.E.D. hits something or gets jostled hard, no filament to get broken either, they stay lit, like the old Timex watches, they take a lick'n and keep on burn'n!   Definitely can't say that for incans, no way, no how.   Plus how many times have you felt the HEAT of an strand of incans?   Those things can make great fire starters if you aren't careful with them.   Aside from the Arsonistic Martha Stewart L.E.D. strands that others have stated burst into flames, all my strands run cool, can be held and suffer no ill effects {unless you're stupid enough to work with them in the rain and they may give you a nice jolt!{unsealed ones mainly, sealed ones may/may not give you that nice warm, fuzzy feeling if your hands are wet.:o:lol:

And as for the cost savings being WAY DOWN the road, that IS A MYTH!   My savings tallied up very well the first year I went to almost all L.E.D. strands, my power bill dropped from an additional $200+ in the Season to less than $40 for the same amount of L.E.D. lights in my display.

So no one will ever convince me the savings come later or you pay for the savings up front, from MY perspective and experience using L.E.D.'s that's just a load of hogwash!

In all reality this ALL BOILS DOWN TO PERSONAL PREFERENCES!

And that's going to my final say on this debate.    

So Orville, your response (to differ with me) seems two sided as to adding in my quote with it. 

Your LED burning out issue may be a big box store purchase issue. I've purchased from CDI since 2006 and still using them. No burn outs. 

Yet, you go on to discuss about icans being a problem/cost.

So what part do you differ with me as I was quoted?

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Archer said:

I'm 65 and the math they taught me back in the 50's and 60's still holds true and always will. In the breakdown I gave if we both had the same display and money to spend on it and you used LED, all you could do is buy the 1,000 strands of lights.....I'd be able to buy the 1,000 strands of lights, controllers, wire, connectors and replacement bulbs and pay for the electricity needed to use them. Here's the real clincher. Most people that view my display THINK I am using LED.

BTW....this is a healthy discussion, not an argument.

So we don't include the purchase to replace faded or flaked strands. Because I have thrown away MANY ican strands just because of that. But that was back in the 90s and early 2000s. 

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I have some white incans still in my show which just wont die!   Die will ya just die!    They dont even have dementia yet at 7 years old.    I am of the opinion that is takes a LONG LONG time to make up the extra cost of LED strands over incans in electricity savings. If ever.  Unfortunately I have thrown LED strands away which burned out.  The early unsealed ones corroded and the blue just stopped working.    This badly impacts the ROI if you are looking for cheapest strand route.    However,  for my show the switch to LED strands has been good and I have no plans to ever buy incans again.  The extra cost is worth it.  I find the LEDs much less likely to stop in the rain by tripping the GFCI.  And LEDs have given me easier options for power cords and the number of circuits needed.    

Its not close to fair to compare costs of LED strands and controllers to smart RGB controllers. Strands lose by a lot.  I have many pixels in my show but have retained strands and AC controllers for the 'retro' look of them.  And also they just wont DIE!

 

Edited by ItsMeBobO
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2 hours ago, Dennis Laff said:

you guys need a new hobby

New hobby... repairing incandescent light strings if they ever fail. Like the Energizer bunny they keep going and going

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Santa.....I did include replacing incans. Did you see where I said I had enough to buy twice as many mini's with $1,000.00 left over.

Someday I'll be using LED but not yet....TOO EXPENSIVE.

Until next year, I'm done pleading my case on mini's vs LED. 

Mega....you behave.

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1 hour ago, Archer said:

Santa.....I did include replacing incans. Did you see where I said I had enough to buy twice as many mini's with $1,000.00 left over.

Someday I'll be using LED but not yet....TOO EXPENSIVE.

Until next year, I'm done pleading my case on mini's vs LED. 

Mega....you behave.

I am behaving my friend. Was very tempted to find the old post where I proved to you beyond a shadow of a doubt that LEDs rule. It was summed up something like this. With the 20,000 hour life expectancy of LEDs on a 5hr per day seasonal burn, in 600 years you would save $70,000 dollars, not counting inflation. 

Bamm.

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10 hours ago, Santas Helper said:

So Orville, your response (to differ with me) seems two sided as to adding in my quote with it. 

Your LED burning out issue may be a big box store purchase issue. I've purchased from CDI since 2006 and still using them. No burn outs. 

Yet, you go on to discuss about icans being a problem/cost.

So what part do you differ with me as I was quoted?

 

 

Sorry, but some of that response was directed elsewhere, not all of it was directed at your reply, just the burning out of L.E.D.'s was the main response to your post.

But trying to get multiquotes to work is a P.I.T.A.!!!

.    As for sealed strands, I have one that is all white LED's, there are{were} over 15+ L.E.D. bulbs burned out randomly on that strand, leaving large gaps of no light, some were right next to each other.   Had an orange L.E.D. sealed strand, complete set burned out, I cut the L.E.D.'s from each of those strands and tested each L.E.D. marked each where they failed on the White Sealed strand and they were BURNED OUT, the entire orange set, every L.E.D. was DEAD, none would light when tested!.  

I only have one set of sealed strand L.E.D.'s that still work and they're yellow and they are not all that bright either.  So I only use them indoors where they are only seen if someone is inside the house 

This is WHY I DO NOT and WILL NOT USE sealed strands in my display.    

At least with replaceable L.E.D. bulb's if one or more would happen to burn out, I can replace it a lot easier where it is on the house than trying to affect a repair where it sits mounted to the house by pulling and replacing the bad bulb!  But I don't have that many, if at all, failures on my BIG BOX STORE L.E.D. strands and will stand behind them 100%!   With MY experience with sealed ones, no thanks.   I'll stick to my cheap-o ones I can fix easier than sealed types.   Again, MY preference and that's what counts!

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1 hour ago, Mega Arch said:

I am behaving my friend. Was very tempted to find the old post where I proved to you beyond a shadow of a doubt that LEDs rule. It was summed up something like this. With the 20,000 hour life expectancy of LEDs on a 5hr per day seasonal burn, in 600 years you would save $70,000 dollars, not counting inflation. 

Bamm.

But you ain't going to live that long my friend....keep it current and your theory sucks. Did you not read the part about Methuselah and Noah having a concern assuming they started when they were 300-400 yrs old when they started?

Bamm......lol

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So last night I was in one of those moods and wouldn't let it go.

Everyone brings up good points about icans and LEDs.

But I think it's kinda healthy to just vent some of our passion and experience.

Either way, we do it because we enjoy it. AND we learn so much here from each other.

:)

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1 hour ago, Mega Arch said:

I am behaving my friend. Was very tempted to find the old post where I proved to you beyond a shadow of a doubt that LEDs rule. It was summed up something like this. With the 20,000 hour life expectancy of LEDs on a 5hr per day seasonal burn, in 600 years you would save $70,000 dollars, not counting inflation. 

Bamm.

But you ain't going to live that long my friend....keep it current and your theory sucks. Did you not read the part about Methuselah and Noah having a concern assuming they started when they were 300-400 yrs old?

I don't know of an accountant worth his weight that would say "spend your money now because what you are buying is gonna get cheaper when the next technology comes along"!!!....lol

This was fun....time to debate a new topic.

Bamm......lol

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3 hours ago, Mega Arch said:

I am behaving my friend. Was very tempted to find the old post where I proved to you beyond a shadow of a doubt that LEDs rule. It was summed up something like this. With the 20,000 hour life expectancy of LEDs on a 5hr per day seasonal burn, in 600 years you would save $70,000 dollars, not counting inflation. 

Bamm.

But you ain't going to live that long my friend....keep it current and your theory sucks. Did you not read the part about Methuselah and Noah having a concern assuming they started when they were 300-400 yrs old when they started?

Bamm......lol

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OK - but at least 4 generations can keep handing down my display to the next one without spending a dime.  

My legacy lives on & on & on.....

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6 minutes ago, Mega Arch said:

OK - but at least 4 generations can keep handing down my display to the next one without spending a dime.  

My legacy lives on & on & on.....

Daaaaaaang, that was good. :)

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6 hours ago, Mega Arch said:
2 hours ago, Santas Helper said:

Daaaaaaang, that was good. :)

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain (Mega)....he's a legend in his own mind.

 

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3 hours ago, Mega Arch said:

OK - but at least 4 generations can keep handing down my display to the next one without spending a dime.  

My legacy lives on & on & on.....

That is UNLESS YOU SELL IT ALL OFF FIRST then they get NOTHING!!!    

Sorry Mega, just couldn't resist that one!:P:lol:

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1 hour ago, Orville said:

That is UNLESS YOU SELL IT ALL OFF FIRST then they get NOTHING!!!    

Sorry Mega, just couldn't resist that one!:P:lol:

Instead of Grinch, it's really

"The Orville that Stole Christmas". 

 

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