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Hope This Help When You Start Install the LOR II Gamma


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I have been using LOR II since it came out and run my show perfectly without any major problem. I dont know this is the reason or not, but I would like to share with you. Base on my experience, when I install an upgrade application, I never install in the same directory with the same previous version unless the software noted. I always install in different folder from previous one, like this one is c:Program FilesLight-O-Rama II. The reason is that when the system or the program create a strange behavior, it always caused by incompability of the ActiveX files or DLL files, or files with same name but different version in the local directory first. Trust me, sometimes we think that the installation software will copy the new version one replace the old one, but it didn't. And we sit there for hours with hair pulled out and still not figure out what is wrong with it. When I install this way, I can iliminate this problem, and two, I can still go back to the previous version in case. Hope this help.

Ngoc Hong,

[line]

LOR User for 3 years with 96 Channels

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Richard Hamilton

Hmmmm, I guess there are pros and cons of doing that technique and you will find people on both sides of that fence.

In my experience I have run into more problems by putting upgrades into separate folders (due to the "DLL Hell" issue). Thus, I stopped doing that years ago.

Good luck trying to keep some programs separate in that regard. I haven't seen that many companies are smart enough with their software installations about ensuring problems don't occur when you install an upgrade to a separate folder.

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Yes, some upgrade program requires to install in the same folder as I mentioned if software noted as requirement. If not, then I just install in different folder. Especially at the last minute when I am ready to run the show and something big goes wrong I couldn't figure out at that time, I still go back my old version to run the show with the sequences that I saved in previous version while wait for the solution.

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In this case, the LOR II installer specifically tells you to place it in the prior folder (C:Program FilesLight-O-Rama for me). I didn't want to second-guess it so that's what I did.

-Tim

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Richard Hamilton

Good point. One thing I should have given more detail on earlier is with regard to my past VAST experience helping companies create installers. It's off topic for LOR, but fits this thread...

The most popular installer on the market is InstallShield, but frankly speaking, it is far too complicated for most installations. Fortunately, Dan does not use that program with LOR. It appears he uses a simpler "built-in" installer from the Microsoft dev kit or Visual Basic kit.

With other types of program installers created with InstallShield, it is too easy to screw up the installation. Personally, I have done more than 70 installers for various programs (as a consultant) over the last 10 years by using InstallShield, Wise, and a couple others. All too often I would get a call from a client who tried to have a programmer create an installer at the last minute and become lost. It wasn't their main job so they did not know the Windows internals and installation pitfalls well enough to do the best job. Thus, they would create an installer that was not tested well and would cause problems with installing upgrades to other folders. This is why I generally don't like the idea of putting upgrades in another folder. More likely to cause problems than putting in same folder as original installation.

At one point, InstallShield released a version of their installer (verions 9 as I recall) that defaulted to actually over-writing existing files with a newer date if the file did not have version information embedded in it. That was a disaster because other unrelated Windows programs would break if they used a shared DLL. In this case, it wouldn't matter if you put the upgrade in a separate folder or not because the common files often go in the Windows system folder anyway. Hundreds of companies created installers with this version and shipped their product before the problem was caught.

Summary, I never trust an installer (or the programmer that did it) after my experiences cleaning up the messes from other companies who painted themselves in a corner. I backup everything before installing and new software or an upgrade so I make sure I have something to fall back to.

:P

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Installers are one area that the Mac has Windows beat hands-down. Many mac apps you just drag from the CD to whereever you want them on your computer. The ones that need to be installed seem to be a lot more user-friendly than any Windows installer I've ever seen...

Building installers isn't my primary job, but I've had the misfortune to dabble in InstallShield, Installer Vise (both Win and the pre-OSX Mac version) and a couple others. I'll stick to writing code, thank you! :)

On one occasion I was given the task of writing a C++ extension to InstallShield that did a bunch of stuff (searched for previous configurations, tweaked some proprietary config files, etc). InstallShield provided next to no docu on how to write such extensions-- and the installer would crash as soon as my extension was invoked. Upon debugging, I discovered that my extension wasn't even GETTING invoked, it was crashing before even the first line of code was hit. I kept calling InstallShield support and they kept hanging up on me because "we don't support user-created extensions". After nagging them over and over I finally got them to give me a sample extension (which they refused to at first), from which I discovered my issue (which was the fact they were using C calling conventions and I hadn't realized I needed to have my C++ extension wrapped with "extern C", for those techy-minded people around here...) These days that would have been one of the first things I'd check, but I was new back then ;)

-Tim

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Richard Hamilton

Well Tim, then you know what I am talking about ;)

Sorry to hear of your "IS" experience, but it is unfortuantely typical.

I grin a bit to hear of your mention on Mac installers being simpler. I think that is correct and generally true. Yet, once about two years ago, I had a Mac expert tell me how easy it was going to be to create a Mac installer by just drag and drop. He boast about it and and snickered about how Windows was so dumb about installers. You know, it is the classic Windows vs Mac programmer war :shock:

10 weeks later, his "3 hour" installer was done and still buggy!

Sorry for this interlude of random yack, now I am back on the LOR track.

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You are right. The best way is to make the backup before install the new one. And I agree, some programs require the shared files from previous version to be able to run. Some programs need all the files up-to-date version to run properly. Some situation required uninstall and reinstall the software again. The point I try to make here, LOR II is running well for me for the last 5 days without any major problem or any weird problem. I want to make as a fresh start for this version and do not want interfere anything with the previous one. I installed it in different folder from the previous version. Copied all the old sequence an audio folder to the new one same configure as the previous one. Made modification and save as new version format. Created Show and set schedule. The show automatic runs well every day. No weird light on/off unexpectly. Lights run as I wanted. Beside the minor problems already reported, my show run perfectly from day one.

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