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Help with ELL


beholmes2004
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Hey everyone,
I've submitted this to Support also, but thought the group might have some idea of something obvious im missing.

I recently received my ELL's and i cannot for the life of me get them working.

connection A is:

PC --> 1602 -- > ELL ~~ ELL --> 1602


If i insert the ELL as configured in "connection A" I can no longer see the 2nd 1602. In addtion the Hardware Utility does nor recognize any ELL

However, if i remove the ELLs
The hardware utility recongizes both of my 1602's when both are hardwired as shown

PC --> 1602 --> 1602


Both ELLs show LED 1 blinking about every 1/2 sec, both show LED 2 with quick flash that appeart to be in sync with each other. LED 3 is dark.



In addition i have since discovered that I need the USB-485B to go form the PC directly to the ELL. So, i have ordered that part. But if i am understanding correctly, I do not need the USB-485B for the connection between the 1602s.

Thanks
Ben

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Hi Ben,

If you have the latest Hardware Util then you should see all of your devices connected as you describe. Silly thought: you do have the connection from the PC to the "IN" jack of the 1st 1602 and the 1st ELL connected to the "OUT" jack, then the 2nd ELL connected to the "IN" of the 2nd 1602? I have used mine, set up as you describe in the past, for testing, and they have worked fine.

Martin

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grandad wrote:

Hi Ben,

If you have the latest Hardware Util then you should see all of your devices connected as you describe. Silly thought: you do have the connection from the PC to the "IN" jack of the 1st 1602 and the 1st ELL connected to the "OUT" jack, then the 2nd ELL connected to the "IN" of the 2nd 1602? I have used mine, set up as you describe in the past, for testing, and they have worked fine.

Martin


Hi Martin,

I think i have the lastest hardware util. Its the version downloaded from the website. the HU software shows Light-O-Rama Hardware v1.6.9 I did not realize there was in and out jacks. I tried several combinations. I am assuming the IN jack of the first 1602 is the Middle jack. and the OUT jack of the ELL is the one farthest from the corner (more toward the middle edge). I've tried both ELLs, i've tried a single ELL. I am assuming the system will see each ELL on its own, and not as a pair.

I'm open to ideas.

Thanks for the quick response.

Ben
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Ben,

Hmmmm...... My HU shows 1.6.6 which I thought was the latest! Well, no matter. The scheme of things should be the same.

I was under the impression that the larger cat5e jacks are "IN" and "OUT"; left being "IN" and right being "OUT" but reading the 1602W manual it does seem to suggest that either can be used for IN/OUT. I'm using CTB-16D boards in my own enclosures which are effectively 1602Ws so the wiring is the same and I use left as IN and right as OUT with no trouble. I cannot try your set-up at the moment as mine are all connected ready to go and this year I have used hardwired cable connections.

You are correct that you do NOT need the USB-485B between controllers. When you receive your USB-485B device then the HU will display a small animated icon in the lower right corner when an ELL is directly connected to it. You should check your network BAUD rate also, the default for the ELLs is 57600 I believe, although if I remember correctly the v2.8 firmware ELLs will auto-detect the rate.......I may be wrong so check anyway! Yours should already be v2.8 firmware.

Good luck Ben.

Martin

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LightORamaDan

With the configuration you described (ELLs between two 1602s)... When you open the hardware utility, does the ELL symbol (Radio with appear on the bottom of the screen?

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LightORamaDan wrote:

With the configuration you described (ELLs between two 1602s)... When you open the hardware utility, does the ELL symbol (Radio with appear on the bottom of the screen?


No such luck.

I have the RF tab, but no ELL symbol shows in the bottom of the screen.

Ben
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Ben,

I believe Dan means that the ELL icon will appear at the bottom right of the "LOR Control" tab window when the HU is opened (see pic)

Maybe I'm reading your reply incorrectly.

Martin


Attached files 144200=8543-HU.JPG

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Hmm..

A thought, am i missing a driver?
I have the CD with the 485 drivers. However I didn't see anyway to install it?
Nor did it appear that i needed them?

Im using a Belkin USB-RS232 serial port. That has its own drivers. That 232 Serial port is connect to the SC485-RJ45 Serial Adapter. That connects to the 1602.
As shown below:

PC USB --> Belkin USB-RS232 --> SC485-RJ45 --> 1602 --> 1602

I realize that i cannot connect from the PC to the 1602 without the USB485B hardware. But I am assumng that I should be able to connect between the 1602s with the ELLs without any additional drivers.

Open to Ideas

Ben

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Ben,

I'm sure, if you have a serial port on your PC, that you've tried eliminating the USB-232 adapter? If the SC485 device is directly connected to a COM: port then no drivers are required.......using the Belkin USB - 232 converter I'm sure you have drivers installed for that, otherwise it would not see ANY of the LOR devices. May be something obvious that we are missing but I think you may have to await a response from Dan and team. Sorry I couldn't be of more help ;)

Martin

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Thanks for trying. All help is appreciated.
I use the USB-232 adapter because the PC does not have any direct 232 ports.


Only other thought i can come up with is reset the 1602, but i don't think that is the issue. It really seems that my software is not recognizing the units. Although that doesn't explain way it still won't work with the ELLs in between the 1602.

Weather looks good tonight, so looks like i'll be playing with the system.

On a side note, some good news. I was able to get my wireless audio setup working. I utilized 2.4 GHZ Audio link with USB connection.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2464773&cp=2032057.2032187.2032187.2032193.2032226&parentPage=family

I put the AMP outside, and now i can stay nice and warm and work on the shows inside when the weather is just nasty outside.

Ben

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Those A/V units look neat Ben.

Am I misreading your last post.......you can control all1602s if you hardwire them yes? If not, then certainly a hard reset of the units if a good start........Oh! do it anyway, it cannot do any harm. Good luck with the shows and Happy Holidays Ben.

Martin

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Yes i can control all of my 1602s (both of them), if i hardware everything. Works great at 56K speed. My first cable to the 1602 is the default 100ft cable. The next cable is a 50' one.

Workie:
PC --> USB-232 --> SC485 --> Cat 5, 100ft --> 1602 --> Cat 5, 50ft --> 1602.

No Workie:
PC --> USB-485 --> SC485 --> Cat 5, 10ft --> ELL
This one is understand why it doesn't work, I need the USB-45B to power the ELL (lesson learned)
(hmmm a thought to consider, maybe next version have a simple DC (9v?) adapter for power to the ELL)

No Workie:
PC --> USB-485 --> SC485 --> Cat 5, 100ft --> 1602 --> Cat 5 10 ft --> ELL ~~ ELL --> Cat 5 10 ft --> 1602.
This is the one that has me baffled. It should work out of the box. Minimum the HU should see the ELL, and it does not.

OH.. just thought of something else to check. I'll have to verify that light 2 on the 2nd ELL was flashing also, appearing as though it was receiving data. I believe it was, but after all this testing i honestly don't recall now.

I've been reading some more of the support center information regarding ELLs too.

At least now i understand how the PC talks with the ELLs. I had misunderstood that the ELL configuration could also be done over the ELL. (maybe something in a future rev). So as i understand it now, I have to attach each ELL to the PC (or 1602), program it from there, then attach the next ELL, program it. Then I should have a working pair.

Of course this implies two things:
1) I have at least ONE ELL that is recognized by the HU setup. (this is the hurdle that is driving me nuts)
2) My ELLs are working together.

Then again, they should have worked out of the box. Maybe in all of my poking around, i "deflashed" the units :shock:

Techie Playtime.
Thanks
Ben

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beholmes2004 wrote:


No Workie:
PC --> USB-485 --> SC485 --> Cat 5, 100ft --> 1602 --> Cat 5 10 ft --> ELL ~~ ELL --> Cat 5 10 ft --> 1602.
This is the one that has me baffled. It should work out of the box. Minimum the HU should see the ELL, and it does not.



Ben, you don't need the SC485 adapter in the above setup. The USB-485 does the conversion to RS485 normally done by the SC485. If the USB-485 is your latest purchase, and you want the USB-485B instead, have a word with Dan, he may be able to help out.
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grandad wrote:

beholmes2004 wrote:

No Workie:
PC --> USB-485 --> SC485 --> Cat 5, 100ft --> 1602 --> Cat 5 10 ft --> ELL ~~ ELL --> Cat 5 10 ft --> 1602.
This is the one that has me baffled. It should work out of the box. Minimum the HU should see the ELL, and it does not.



Ben, you don't need the SC485 adapter in the above setup. The USB-485 does the conversion to RS485 normally done by the SC485. If the USB-485 is your latest purchase, and you want the USB-485B instead, have a word with Dan, he may be able to help out.

You are absolutly correct. My error in the diagram.
It should be USB-232 not USB 485.

The correct diagram is:
PC --> USB-232 --> SC485 --> Cat 5, 100ft --> 1602 --> Cat 5 10 ft --> ELL ~~ ELL --> Cat 5 10 ft --> 1602.

My guess is the USB-485B will solve all my issues. I've ordered it. However for now I'm hardwired.
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Here is my results following John's suggetions:



Okay here is the results



PC --> USB232 --> SC485 --> ELL --> 1602



the HU never saw the ELL, either one, tried one at a time.

I confirmed the network speed of the UBS232 serial port COM3, 56K, 8N1, no flow control.

I tried changing the COM port, Speed, Flow control. No change.

I tried reloading my USB232 driver. No change.



I did try the SE with this configuration

PC --> USB232 --> SC485 --> 1602 -- ELL ~~ ELL --> 1602



TA DAH!! The 1602s did work on both units.

I went back to the HU do see if it saw the units again, and Nope.

From what i can tell the HU is not not gonna see the ELLs



In addition the HU could not see the second 1602 when configured as above.



Go figue. It appears there is some problem with the HU for me. I haven't a clue what.

For now until my USB485B comes in looks like i'll have to be hardwire out of the house.



Any other ideas?



Thanks

Ben

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