Oh What to do?

[jonsimp911]

Also, LOR sells a dumb RGB setup including 8 16' RGB ribbons and a 24 channel (8 RGB channel) controller (http://store.lightorama.com/rgbstrip8pack.html) if you don't want to go DMX.  You'll still need the need a power supply, extension cables, etc., but I believe this uses the same RS485 USB dongle that comes with the LOR starter pack.  The website says weatherproof (not waterproof), so I would check with them before placing these strips underwater.

[nam1956]

Thanks for the info, and prices are important, my budget is not limitless but at this point in my life there is room for expansion in it.

[jonsimp911]

Just so you are aware, here is a video of a dumb RGB setup on a house...

 

 

The equipment shown is the LOR package, but strips from HC will look similar.  As far as DMX vs LOR - they're just different protocols and the LOR software/equipment will handle both.  Because DMX is not proprietary to LOR, there are more vendors out there selling the equipment, so it can be a bit cheaper, but you don't have as much support.  That's why I recommended HC - they seem to support their customers while only being a few bucks more than ordering stuff from China yourself.

 

Of course, any packages ordered from LOR will have plenty of support.  LOR stand behind it products and will help you to succeed with your display (landscape or holiday).

[nam1956]

Thanks, Bought a beginner kit from HC today, it will I'm sure answer a lot of my questions and give me something to play with during planning.

[nam1956]

Well it seems that HC does not carry one part of the listed beginner kit so they cancelled my entire order. So I have been moving on to planning and playing with the software. I have picked out one Christmas song to mess with and have sequenced it half way through 3 times. In another thread Max-Paul confirmed that I am a nut, well after messing with sequencing for a few days I know who are the real nuts here, What a freakin headache. But to tell you the truth I love it and am learning a lot and almost getting comfortable with the so far acquired knowledge. I am gathering several questions though. I'm sure that in time I will run across the answers but not quite there yet in my playing. I am through the basic training videos and am currently working on mastering those. I then go to the sequencer and play with those features.

 

My first question is about the disadvantages/advantages of the DMX. The first part of my project (since I did not get any RGB equipment) is using standard string lights and 3-16 channel AC controllers. I currently have the 3 controllers built in the sequencer with a ton of lights. At least it seems like a ton of lights at this stage of my project. If I decide to put in the DMX to control the lights I mentioned before will I be starting from scratch in the sequencer? Need to cut this post short, the boss is calling me.

[scubado]

You definitely want to go the DC route whether it be LOR DC controllers or DMX.  All the RGB stuff is DC controlled.  LOR is easier and can handle all of leds available, at least the 16 channel one can, the 24 channel controller goes up to only 30v.  DMX is cheaper, little more learning curve, controllers are a little more limiting with 2A/channel at 12V.

[kiplorenzo]

they have come up on the DMX boards, they support 3a per channel, there are some 4a per channel out there and I did find a board (aus Christmas?) that handles an even higher amount.

The DMX is not difficult to setup once you understand the channels and how to configure the devices. Holiday Coro does have some video's on it. Make sure to watch the LOR Videos on their website. They do explain a lot of the programming and the shows. I needed them just for the show builder.

 

The best way I have found to develop the lighting in the display starts with Cost: Spreadsheet of different lights and costs. I am finding out that my changing the roof line and Deck to be fully RGB Christmas lights is going to go towards the poor house.  12 Icicle sets @ 18.99(Red) need 2 more sets of 12- one green and 1 white. Then the deck: It has 16 sets if White Net lights. To go individual color of Red, Green and Blue: 26.00 Set.

Oh , then there is the 5 trees: Option there: RGB Pixel net, higher up front cost, but still cheaper than LED Strings of 100. Then there is LED strings. @ 20 a set and 300 lights of each color needed per tree.Oh, and did I mention Controllers? 4 @ 259.00 When I put all of this into a spreadsheet and ran a few simple addition and multiplication, the cost showed at around 3500. to do this complete upgrade. I am not made of money.   SO I start 1 portion of the project at a time: 1st roof Icicle Lights, got the case of 12 in for blue and white... headed off to red and green, and then off to buy the controller for the roof.  Then we start on the deck (400.00 per color!)

Here's the fun part... THe channel count I had was around 25. Now, we are looking almost 256 channels. How in the heck does one sequence all of those channels? 

 

I did get the ultimate compliment from the gal at the little store by our development, they had people coming into the store to get soda and popcorn to come and watch the light show at my place   I was beaming! She then also said that they all want to know what I am up to for this next year.

[nam1956]

Thanks for info,I guess at this point I'm just a little confused. Wanting to make sure that as I go I am building a network that will in fact work when complete. I am designing it to be huge, even though if I ever see the complete set I'm sure it won't be till I reach my death bed. At least this way I will not to need to redo the backbone of the display, the wire/network. I will only be doing a small portion at a time, building on each year. With any luck after a couple of years (time frame is because of the back yard project, which led me here) I will be to the point that all I need to do is build sequences and props to ad on.

  I am in the middle of a sequence now that will use only regular strands of lights, at least the thought when started was to use store bought lights. It consisit of

16 - strands

38 - nets

4 flood lights

3 spot lights

 

on 4 16 AC channel controllers (so far)

 

This is all located in the front yard. In the front yard there will be two controllers, one on either side of the drive with 16 nets on each. There will be 8- red and 8- green nets on each side, they will be placed on a row of burning bushes in layers (green/red ) with the channels in order from front to back. this will be give me the chasing affect two layers deep. The third controller also a 16 channel, 14 strings of lights for 6 small trees ( 3 - red bud, 1 rose of Sharon,1 lace leaf maple and one crimson maple) and 2 flood lights to wash the front porch. The last controller will have 6 net channels, 2 flood channels and 2 spot channels, the net channels will be on a row of very short bushes surrounding the trees and porch placed to have a chasing effect. I will also be using a manger scene and a  drummer boy statue, a flood will be placed behind each prop to produce a siloute (? spellin was never a high point) from the street, a spot will be placed in front of each will at time light up the front of each prop. There is a 5 controller planned but it will be part of the roof set up when I get there and hopefully RGB.

  This will give me the chance to play with not only the simpler set up but to also get some (a lot) time in on the sequencer part of it, which will help when it comes to the rest of the house.

  Okay so,  I guess my question is, how and would it be useful to make this a universe on a DMX ( if it could) ? The way I am understanding it is that if I want to use the Ethernet  network as my backbone I will at some point need to Break into the "daisy chain" topology to connect to my controllers. The biggest part of my equipment will be located in the basement but these controllers will be placed each year in the yard and plugged into a permanent plug built into a prop in the landscaping. Both the cat5 and any DC connection (AC already there) will run back to my basement (50'-100'). 100' would be no problem for a cat5 but to daisy chain these into the scheme as it grows that cat5 run will quickly grow to 200'. 500' a 1000' and on as the back yard and others are added. With the DMX could I place it at the plugs in the front yard and have it run the set up described above ,  with the Ethernet could I place a small cat5 hub there and plug the elements in it?

  Since I will be using the final product as year  round landscaping lighting and seasonal, the lights cover my entire house and yard so the wire will go in all directions which is why I an thinking the Ethernet set up is the way to go.

 

 Oh, also the sequences, are they just one file when complete? I sometimes work from my lap top up stairs and have loaded the software and would like to download the sequence to a thumb drive to have access to regardless of what computer I'm on. can we post those type of attachments here?

Edited January 28, 2014 by nam1956

[indi]

For your translucent panel, I would go with a frosted or white panel. This would defuse the lights and you may not need as many. You would have to play around with this to see what looks best for your project.

[nam1956]

Love the avatar Mr. Grinch (sorry just could not help myself). I was thinking the same on the glass panel, what do you think about the spacing of the lights? not doing anything real fancy, twinkle to go with the water flowing, there will be color and changing colors. The water flowing off this element will flow into the top pond and then over two water falls (one small and one large) to a second pond with RGB lights completely around both ponds and under both water falls. The twinkle and color changes from the  element will slowly flow into the upper pond, over the waterfalls into the second pond. That structure will be 3' x 5', but there currently is three of those planned staggered side by side to provide a little privacy so the number of lights are a concern. don't really what to sink thousands of $s in to just those.

[kiplorenzo]

So, With LOR, you have the controllers for the Christmas lights. For the DMX, you can do 3 pin or there is an adapter to Ethernet. I have not broken into the E1.31 yet, but am looking into it. I use DMX for 2 major reasons.

A lot of the lights I am using for landscaping (DMX RGB From Ray Wu's Store) will run year round also. The idea for me is to control the DMX Floods, The Crystall Ball fixtures, and the LED RGB Pixel ribbon that will go along the roofline. That is all year round shtuff. The DMX network is a 2nd network off the computer using a DMX Dongle (holiday coro carries those, but I bought from DMXKing) I need the 3 pins as there is a lot of really great stage lighting out there that just needs a waterproof enclosure designed for it. I designed the following enclosure for the crystal ball. These put RGB colored stars all over the house...and they move.

https://picasaweb.google.com/kiplorenzo/Christmas2013#5974139910778350450

 

 

 

If you are going to look at the Ethernet option for lights, you will be using DMX... whether its DMX over Ethernet (Sandevices and pixels) or standard 3 or 5 pin DMX. the question next is depending on if you are looking at the pixels, is how many universes will you need? It is easier for me to daisy chain the DMX items as the cable is cheap and can run up to 1500 feet. Ethernet (network-TCP/IP - not Power over ethernet) can only run a max of 300'. The Same laptop that runs the LOR Christmas show will also run the DMX lighting software. With a true DMX light board (software), events can be configured by time (real clock time) to change rather than being based on a sequence. That could be a very large sequence to have the dmx floods start dim, go to yellowish, then to pinkish. then to purple, then to blue, then to dim white over a period of 3 hours.

 

The LOR Controllers will be for the Christmas Trees (5 real Blue Spruce-1200 lights each) the deck (64 sets of nets) and the roofline (48 sets of icicles) and either the singing christmas trees from Holiday Coro and some RGB Pixel Mini Trees( DMX). The amount of lights are seris of Red, Green, Blue, and white LED lights. So each portion of the roof, the deckline, and the trees colors will be controllable.

 

Next year, Strobes!

Edited January 29, 2014 by kiplorenzo

[nam1956]

looks like I need to read up on DMX a bit.

[kiplorenzo]

Go take a gander at rays Store:

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/701799

 

Warning! this site is full of all the RGB LED blinky flashy you want and then some!

 

[scubado]

Once you get some of it and play with it, it's pretty easy.  I personally don't follow the protocol using cat5 and RJ45 jacks, I hard wire it all or in some cases use Molex connectors.  All my DC controllers (LOR and DMX) are in the basement except for one in the garage.  In my case all I'm doing is running the output to each element.  I have had no network issues unless it was self inflicted.

[kiplorenzo]

I forgot to answer your question about the files. I used a network this last year to build my show (I have my own domain here in the house) and I setup a share on the server, and stored the sequences and audio files there.

When it came time to use the laptop, it had problems finding the audio files and I had to go back and re associate the media file with the sequence. I learned 1 thing. Develop the sequences on 1 machine, then copy the entire lightorama folder to the new machine. Then everything makes it over and LOR knows where to find stuff.

[smallcrpt]

oh, on the pond side if you are planning on koi or goldfish, i recommend a bottom drain  

hopefully its not to late in your digging/planning stage, but its been a life saver for me.

[nam1956]

What are you using to run from the controller inside to the element outside, gauge and distance?

Thanks Kip, Right now I only have the "Demo" but as long as these sequences take I will be wantin to sit somewhere else from time to time.

[nam1956]

Bottom drain? I normally dig a little deeper small hole in the pond big enough to hold a pump to pump it out. I'm guessing that is why you like the drain in the bottom

[nam1956]

This is a lot like school, as far as the reading goes. Although I am enjoying this  a bit more than I did in school.

 

I am moving through all of the training videos I find and am well on the way to becoming a complete nut. I was and guess still am a bit confused on the DMX application and wonder if it is even needed in my case.

 The other day I started on the Superstar to start adding color to my planned display. I read about networks and am not sure but am thinking that networks are for my application. If I understand it there is a limit of smart strips/lights on a network, I think the example was 6 ribbons. Is this correct and if so what are the hidden disadvantages of multiple networks.

 

With any luck I will have the layout for my entire project soon, Scary to look at but I am planning to get all the cable in the ground that I could ever use and I do mean ever. So as I add to the lights it will be plug and play.

 

Which brings me to my next question, I have been able to sequence one entire song so far and in that process I have added, deleted and moved controllers around, On the first sequence I have 4 16 channel controllers along with some RGB. The sequences are built with all of the channels but on first install I will not have all of the controllers in place. Is there a problem running sequences with not all of the programmed controllers in place. Also in the sequencer software do all of the channels need to appear together, ie; my gutter line around the house will have 17 channels, I will pull one channel of another controller but to help see what I am programming in the sequencer I would like the 17th channel to appear with the other 16 gutter channels. any trouble with that?

 

Thanks

[scubado]

I use 18 guage 4 wire stranded security wire, my longest length is about 70ish'.  Most of my lengths are 10-30'.