X-10 Question, non LOR-related

[Tim Fischer]

I posted this on PC but I know there's a lot of gurus here so I'll try here as well. Any help would be appreciated:

I'm having problems with my non-Christmas X-10 setup. During the "rest of the year", I use X-10 to control a bunch of stuff around the house -- security lighting, our pond fountain and lights, flagpole light, etc. This is all done by downloading timers into the CM11A. I've done this for years with little problems.

This summer, it started getting flaky. Sometimes the timer events woudn't happen, and I'd have to turn things on/off manually. I'd tweak the settings, and things would work again for awhile. But lately, it's almost NEVER working.

After trying a ton of other stuff, I figured my 5-year-old CM11A had given up the ghost. So I bought a new one. And guess what -- it's behaving in the EXACT SAME WAY.

Here's what I know/have tried:

• 
  
• I can control lights from the ActiveHome software 100% of the time manually, so I shouldn't have any kind of issue with signals not traveling properly. I also have a phase coupler/active repeater.
  
• All the timers in question are marked "store in interface". They always have been, and they've always worked until recently.
  
• I've tried "clear interface memory" and re-"download timers and macos" repeatedly.
  
• I've tried tweaking the times slightly (e.g. 12am -> 12:01AM) to force a re-download.
  
• I've tried beating my head against the wall.

I have the latest version of ActiveHome (you know, the one that looks like it was programmed in 1989...)

Help!

-Tim

[Tim Fischer]

The weird thing is I can't think of anything that has changed (e.g. new motors, things moving around, etc) in the past few months. But the motor issue would explain why it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't, and also why I can do it manually (if the motor isn't running when I do it manually, anyway...) I had ruled out interference since the CM11A can send the commands properly when I do it from Activehome manually but not when it does it by itself. But if the interference is intermittent...

Here's a couple of other data points which might help home in on the problem:

• 
  
• This morning, our pond fountain came on properly, but the fountain lights also came on. They're not set to go on until dark, obviously (I won't be able to use the fountain as a test anymore since we pulled it out today).
  
• Last night, a security light turned off at 12:14AM. It's set to go out at 1AM, but I do have the "security" checkbox checked on that one, so the times are somewhat random but I don't think it's supposed to go THAT far off...

So in general, I have some serious screwiness going on. I could try removing the phase coupler/repeater temporarilly, just to see if it's interfering somehow. But it's been in place for a couple of years now...

-Tim

[Denny]

Tim,

Have you made any wiring changes such as add a new circuit or subpanel?

When I retired, we had a doublewide, manufactured home built. I had always used X10 without problems, but for some reason it didn't work properly in the new house. For example, if I had the controller plugged in at one place, some lights would be controlled properly, but others would not work at all. If I moved the controller to a different location, those controllers would work, but the others wouldn't. I found out that it was the way the house was wired. Even though I have what I thought was a main breaker panel inside the house, there is another smaller box outside by the meter. This panel has the main 200 amp breaker plus spaces for four more breakers. My son-in-law is an electrician and last year, I had him add eight 20 amp circuits using duplex breakers to this panel for my display. In doing the wiring, he told me that this box outside was actually my main panel and the one in the house was a subpanel. The house is wired so that half the house is fed from one phase and the other from the other phase. The X10 signals would only work on the phase I was plugged into and not the circuits on the other phase (sorry, not an electrician so I am not sure of the proper terminology). That is why I was wondering if you had a new subpanel installed and possibly moved some of the problem circuits to the new panel.

[RayNMesa]

One other thing I can think of is there is someone else in your area using X10, might be interfering with yours. You may want to try changing your code to B or C .

[Tim Fischer]

Thre's been no wiring changes this year, and I can't think of any other significant changes that would cause this either...

-Tim

[kevin]

Tim,

Sounds like the same problem I have. Outlets that worked perfect last year wont work at all or flaky this year.

The only thing I could think of is the addition of/or changes in electrical equipment pluged into the circuit, or a week breaker. Neither of which I have been able to isolate or prove.

I have even wondered if it is not a circuit problem, but a breaker box leg issue. Like something new on the leg vs the individule circuit.

I have ruled out it being a problem with an X10 Channels, I have tried A-P. I have ruled out software issue. It happens with ActiveSync, HomeSeer 1.7, and HomeSeer 2.0. I have rulled out controllers, I have the same issue if I use my CM-11a or my USB PowerLinc. 2 sets of fresh batteries. Eliminated scripts and advanced programming.

Are your issues always when downloaded to controller, or do you have the problem if you use the computer to control the timming? What about computer Manual turn on Does that work?

My next step is to download the schedule into the Cm-11a and plug it into the outlet I and plug the device into the CM-11a, and just use the CM-11a's as a smart timmer.

[Tim Fischer]

kevin wrote:

=
Are your issues always when downloaded to controller, or do you have the problem if you use the computer to control the timming? What about computer Manual turn on Does that work?

The only way I ever use it is to download them into the controller(except when I have LOR control things in-season).

I could try having ActiveHome control it directly. Whenever I try manually flipping the "switches" in activehome, it always works. But if it's an interference issue, maybe I'm just getting lucky and the interference isn't happening then...

-Tim

[terrypowerz]

Grasping at straws to help but...

Think about any radio freq items that may be new around the house...
wireless routers come to mind right off the bat
Since x 10 is essentially an rf protocol even though it is transmitted via the power line it could be prone to something operating at or in a multiple of it's own frequency.

Just happened to think about the neat device that power companies have offered to install that throttles your air conditioner during peak demand in return they give you a discount. I bet those may cause problems also... or the signal sent to acitvate them would anyways... :shock:

[Tim Fischer]

terrypowerz wrote:

Grasping at straws to help but...

Think about any radio freq items that may be new around the house...
wireless routers come to mind right off the bat
Since x 10 is essentially an rf protocol even though it is transmitted via the power line it could be prone to something operating at or in a multiple of it's own frequency.

Just happened to think about the neat device that power companies have offered to install that throttles your air conditioner during peak demand in return they give you a discount. I bet those may cause problems also... or the signal sent to acitvate them would anyways... :shock:

We have one of those -- but it's been in place for about as long as I've been using X-10...

I can't think of any new RF devices around the house either. Someone on PC mentioned wall warts -- I'm sure it's possible something new is plugged in somewhere, but egads... And it doesn't really explain why it works manually but not automatically when the signal is sent through the exact same controller (CM11A)

-Tim

[kevin]

terrypowerz wrote:

Think about any radio freq items that may be new around the house...
wireless routers come to mind right off the bat
Since x 10 is essentially an rf protocol even though it is transmitted via the power line it could be prone to something operating at or in a multiple of it's own frequency.

I didn't even think about that.. Our electric company is changeing all the meters over to the "Remote Read" meters.. Wonder if that might me part of my problems. They haven't done our meter yeat, but I know they are upgrading around the nighborhoods, My Mom-in-law had hers installed last week.

I assume those work off of RF frequencies, but I would expect those to be a much higher frequency as to not interfere with household RF items.

[Tim Fischer]

kevin wrote:

terrypowerz wrote:

Think about any radio freq items that may be new around the house...
wireless routers come to mind right off the bat
Since x 10 is essentially an rf protocol even though it is transmitted via the power line it could be prone to something operating at or in a multiple of it's own frequency.

I didn't even think about that.. Our electric company is changeing all the meters over to the "Remote Read" meters.. Wonder if that might me part of my problems. They haven't done our meter yeat, but I know they are upgrading around the nighborhoods, My Mom-in-law had hers installed last week.

I assume those work off of RF frequencies, but I would expect those to be a much higher frequency as to not interfere with household RF items.

We have the remote-read electric meters. We also have a remote-read gas meter (for that one, they actually drive a truck slowly down the street every once in awhile. it has antenna's all over it...). They've been in place since we've been in the house (about 5 years), and my problems have only been around a few weeks/months...

-Tim