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Double LOR Channels


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Is this possible/feasible?

I have a few things planned for my display that would only be used once or twice during the show. The problem is, they would take a lot of channels for a one time use. I was wondering if it would be possible to use one LOR channel to trigger a series of DPDT relays connected to other LOR channels to get double duty out of each channel. Obviously, it would be one set of lights or the other that would be operating, not both at the same time. But if I wanted to do a chase of lights in one location at one time and another location at a different time (not simultaneously), it could save quite a bit of money on LOR controllers if I could double up on the channels. Any thoughts?

http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/RLY-453/500/120_VAC_RELAY,_DPDT_12_AMPS_.html

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Entirely possible - will take a few relays (using the relay shown it would be 1/2 the channels you wish to control) - but LOR may have problems switching such a small load. If you can also control a normal light load that will help. And don't try to dim it :D

BTW - I assume you know the LOR channels will go to the common of the relays, your normal load will be feed from the NC connection and your special load to the NO contact. And even though your mains voltage is around the voltage we use here to ring telephone bells :P please safeguard all those live connections!

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I plan on using a DPDT relay this year to take a 16 channel controller and turn it into a 30 channel controller. One channel will be used to trigger the relay to switch a bank of neutrals. I am using the DPDT becuase the board will be dual feed, and the bank of neutrals for each side of board need to be kept isolated from the other.

I am going to use this relay. I like the mounting flange it has.

One thing I am wondering about is if I lower the high burn setting on the board. In the case of the relay I plan on using, it requires 102 volts to operate, which is 85 percent of 120. For this board I don't think I will be able to set the high burn below 85%. Any comments on that???

I'll try to make a diagram of how I intend to do this, and post it in the next few days....

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Ranger_391xt wrote:

I plan on using a DPDT relay this year to take a 16 channel controller and turn it into a 30 channel controller. One channel will be used to trigger the relay to switch a bank of neutrals. I am using the DPDT becuase the board will be dual feed, and the bank of neutrals for each side of board need to be kept isolated from the other.

I am going to use this relay. I like the mounting flange it has.

One thing I am wondering about is if I lower the high burn setting on the board. In the case of the relay I plan on using, it requires 102 volts to operate, which is 85 percent of 120. For this board I don't think I will be able to set the high burn below 85%. Any comments on that???

I'll try to make a diagram of how I intend to do this, and post it in the next few days....


It appears that the relay in questions is mechanical in nature and can only be, on or off. If this is the case, you can only program LOR at 0% or 100%, and nothing in between.

I use my relay to turn off/on the static portion of my display. Additionally, there is a slight delay, as mechanical relays take time to toggle.
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ggregzim wrote:

Ranger_391xt wrote:
I plan on using a DPDT relay this year to take a 16 channel controller and turn it into a 30 channel controller. One channel will be used to trigger the relay to switch a bank of neutrals. I am using the DPDT becuase the board will be dual feed, and the bank of neutrals for each side of board need to be kept isolated from the other.

I am going to use this relay. I like the mounting flange it has.

One thing I am wondering about is if I lower the high burn setting on the board. In the case of the relay I plan on using, it requires 102 volts to operate, which is 85 percent of 120. For this board I don't think I will be able to set the high burn below 85%. Any comments on that???

I'll try to make a diagram of how I intend to do this, and post it in the next few days....


It appears that the relay in questions is mechanical in nature and can only be, on or off. If this is the case, you can only program LOR at 0% or 100%, and nothing in between.

I use my relay to turn off/on the static portion of my display. Additionally, there is a slight delay, as mechanical relays take time to toggle.



I understand that I cannot fade or ramp a mechanical relay.

My question was centered around the High Burn setting on the board. Since the must operate voltage of this relay is 102V (see specs), I was wondering if I use the hardware utility to set the Maximum Intensity of the board to 85%, and I turn the channel on at 100% intensity in the sequence editor, will the relay "see" 102V?

I haven't made adjustments to the high or low burn settings on my boards. I have heard lowering the high burn setting will reduce power consumption, but am curious how it does this. I.e. is total power reduced to the max setting, or is it just the voltage, or just the current that is reduced.

I guess I'll have to test it.
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Ranger_391xt wrote:


I understand that I cannot fade or ramp a mechanical relay.

My question was centered around the High Burn setting on the board. Since the must operate voltage of this relay is 102V (see specs), I was wondering if I use the hardware utility to set the Maximum Intensity of the board to 85%, and I turn the channel on at 100% intensity in the sequence editor, will the relay "see" 102V?

I haven't made adjustments to the high or low burn settings on my boards. I have heard lowering the high burn setting will reduce power consumption, but am curious how it does this. I.e. is total power reduced to the max setting, or is it just the voltage, or just the current that is reduced.

I guess I'll have to test it.

Ahhhh! Now I understand your question. Since Dan Baldwin designed the circuit boards, suggest you contact him direct. It would be better to get a solid answer on this one rather than run the risk of heating something up or burning something out. Besides, you wouldn't want something preventable to go wrong while your display is up and running.
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I am going to use this relay. I like the mounting flange it has.

One thing I am wondering about is if I lower the high burn setting on the board. In the case of the relay I plan on using, it requires 102 volts to operate, which is 85 percent of 120. For this board I don't think I will be able to set the high burn below 85%. Any comments on that???

I'll try to make a diagram of how I intend to do this, and post it in the next few days....


Ranger; Changing the high burn rate is dimming. Do not dim a relay it may chatter. Use a load resistor to drop the voltage. AI

Wait a minute looking at the data sheet for your relay the normal operating voltage is 120 VAC. The 102 volt spec is the "must operate voltage" and it will not work with anything less. Don't try and use it at 102 volts just use 120 volts. AI

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The queston I have is: I have a bunch of 25amp and 90amp SCR's with takes 5-24 volts and 90-120 volts to trigger. I tried to use them in a static 4channel chasser last year and could not get them to work, I think it was because the chasser was switching faster than the SCR's could trigger. I think we have talked abought this before, LOR with relays, LOR with SCR's. I also don't understand SCR's that well so can you ramp up (dimmer) the voltage and turn it into a high amp dimmer. I know I have read this before, where? Also was there a problem with how fast LOR triggers the SCR's?

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Just tested the concept of using the common neutral switching between the two poles of the relay. It worked fine except that there is a delay for the switch to work and you'll have to take that into consideration when programming.

Switch the common neutral between the two pole will give you 30 channels + 1 for controlling the relay (remember to use it only as an ON/OFF).

I'd recommend that you place all the same colors on one "grouping" of channels that is control by one of the common neutral side of the relay (15 channels). I'm dividing my circuit into 8 channel each on either side of the relay and grouping the colors that way.

The only drawback to doing this is that you double the size of box you need to house the wiring/relay and the little delays in programing.

I'm using a 1/2 HP relay with nearly 80% LED lighting so I'm not too worried about overloading the relay.

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I tired this method last year on my mega tree the problem I had was with all the commons going threw the relays , I was picking up a ground outside through the air some how. What happen then was say on channel one one side should of been off and one on, what it was doing is both sides came on with the one that should of been on running at 80% brightness and the other side at 20% brightness. So this didn't work for either. when I did a test inside with a couple of lights laying on a table it did work great but when it was outside on my mega tree it didn't work no more. So what i did was run all the hot through the mechanical relays ran good only problem I had was 3/4 the way through the season one relay burn up so buy extra.. Watch my videos the mega tree is on relays to switch between colors. The tree is using 8 channels with the ninth controling the relay. Hope this info help...Jared

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jshelby wrote:

The queston I have is: I have a bunch of 25amp and 90amp SCR's with takes 5-24 volts and 90-120 volts to trigger. I tried to use them in a static 4channel chasser last year and could not get them to work, I think it was because the chasser was switching faster than the SCR's could trigger. I think we have talked abought this before, LOR with relays, LOR with SCR's. I also don't understand SCR's that well so can you ramp up (dimmer) the voltage and turn it into a high amp dimmer. I know I have read this before, where? Also was there a problem with how fast LOR triggers the SCR's?

There should be no problem with how fast the SCR switch. The problem is with the zero crossing. The LOR turns on late in the 60hz wave form and the SCRs will only work at the zero cross. You need radom turn on SCRs and thay will work fine. AI
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So am I correct when the SCR is 90-280 volt input is that when it see's 90-280volts it is full on NOT 90volts equals 0% and 280volts equals 100%. If so is there an SCR that will work that way.

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