nmonkman Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 (edited) Okay, before I get too far in this endeavor, I want to make sure I don't have to go back at the last minute or even worse during the show. I have completed construction of my controller boxes that I am going to put out in the yard, Each one holds 6 controllers. Understanding that each controller takes two 20 amp feeds, the lights on all 6 controllers do not consume 240 amps. Up until now I have, just for the sake of doing it as directed I have used 36 - 20 amp circuits, but do not have any slots left in the panel box. My plan is to run 50 amp feeds to each box accordingly. Using the 80% safety factor one box will need 3 feeds while another one only needs 1 feed. In other words, the lights on all 6 controllers in that box only consume a little over 40 amps. So now that you have an idea of my intent, here is my question. Is there an issue with running multiple controllers off one circuit? In other words, when you have a 20 amp feed to one side of a controller, how much of that is used to make the controller functional to power the lights on each channel?Admin Edit: See post at end of thread. Edited August 28, 2012 by LORAdmin Added information about final post in thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ainsworth Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 You don't need to worry about the controller power draw, it is very small. There is no issue with running multiple controllers off one circuit, as long as the load from the lights is under the circuits capability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmonkman Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 Ok, that is what I thought, but you can never be too sure and the only dumb question is the one you never ask. Thanks for the quick reply! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve synek Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Okay, before I get too far in this endeavor, I want to make sure I don't have to go back at the last minute or even worse during the show. I have completed construction of my controller boxes that I am going to put out in the yard, Each one holds 6 controllers. Understanding that each controller takes two 20 amp feeds, the lights on all 6 controllers do not consume 240 amps. Up until now I have, just for the sake of doing it as directed I have used 36 - 20 amp circuits, but do not have any slots left in the panel box. My plan is to run 50 amp feeds to each box accordingly. Using the 80% safety factor one box will need 3 feeds while another one only needs 1 feed. In other words, the lights on all 6 controllers in that box only consume a little over 40 amps. So now that you have an idea of my intent, here is my question. Is there an issue with running multiple controllers off one circuit? In other words, when you have a 20 amp feed to one side of a controller, how much of that is used to make the controller functional to power the lights on each channel?Just curious........are you feeding all 6 controllers with a 50 amp circuit. How will you provide GFCI protection? You shouldn't tap a 50 amp circuit to feed a 15 or 20 amp GFCI outlet. Are you providing a sub panel in your 6 controller boxes to convert from a feeder to branch circuits?Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmonkman Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 I'm not using a sub panel and I don't use GFCI outlets because they are a pain. The fuse on the controller will go before there is a problem and I have surge protection at the main power feed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Batzdorf Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I'm not using a sub panel and I don't use GFCI outlets because they are a pain. The fuse on the controller will go before there is a problem and I have surge protection at the main power feed.Don't forget that the gfci is for the human element not the display - it can burn to the ground for all i care. I want to protect myself and any other hapless human that "happens" to touch an element in the display. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryM Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I'm not using a sub panel and I don't use GFCI outlets because they are a pain. The fuse on the controller will go before there is a problem and I have surge protection at the main power feed.Scary....besides being a code violation, thats dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Don Gillespie Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I'm not using a sub panel and I don't use GFCI outlets because they are a pain. The fuse on the controller will go before there is a problem and I have surge protection at the main power feed.Just for the sake of all the young people that do displays this particular post about GFI's is misleading and dangerous I hope the LOR admin might look at the post and delete it, the purpose of GFI's is to protect the people who may wander into the yard, wasn't there an article about the little girl in Orlando who just got electricuted, we as adults need to teach the young people to be safe when working with electricity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-Paul Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 A branch circuit that is last fused or has a breaker on it that is 50 amps. Then ran straight to a 15 or 20 amp rated wire or outlet is not safe. That 50 amp branch should have 8 gauge wire on it, going to 15 or 20 amp fuse or breaker then out to a 14 or 12 gauge wire then to a GFI rated for the same amount. You can always run bigger wire. But installing a smaller wire is not wise. Just let me stop by wally world so I can purchase some marshmallows and I will be over this season. Just saying.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shubb Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) I'm not using a sub panel and I don't use GFCI outlets because they are a pain. The fuse on the controller will go before there is a problem and I have surge protection at the main power feed.Funny thing is the first post mentioned "80% safety factor". Then safety got thrown out the window.My suggestion is to talk to somebody knowledgeable in the electrical field and get informed on how to safely do what you need to do.Just my 2 cents Edited August 24, 2012 by Shubb 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Circuit breakers protect wire.They don't (directly) protect equipment. (Downstream fuses can sometimes do that.)They don't (directly) protect people. (GFCI's do that.)They don't (directly) protect houses against fire. (AFCI's do that.)The only purpose of a circuit breaker is to ensure that the current that runs through a wire is limited to an amount that will keep that wire from overheating. Therefore, the size of the wire must match the size of the circuit breaker to which it is connected. If you hook a 12-gauge wire to a 50-amp circuit breaker, then that circuit breaker will not protect that wire, because its size is incorrect. That's why you need a sub-panel - to install 20-amp breakers to protect 12-gauge wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryM Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I'd disagree...I'd pick this one as my favorite ludicrous comment:I don't use GFCI outlets because they are a pain. The fuse on the controller will go before there is a problem and I have surge protection at the main power feed. Hopefully your ignorance and arrogance doesn't end up killing someone.LORAdmin..smack my hands if you must, but this kind of crap endangers people's well-being. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmonkman Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 Show me in the NEC code and/or the Florida building code where not having a GFCI in your yard is a code violation and I will eat those words. I have 12 outlets on the outside of the house and only 1 is a GFCI because it runs the pond fountain. That one I had to put in to pass inspection. At the same time I ran that outlet I ran 6 others on the same circuit and I have a signed permit. Not to mention that I looked up the code myself. I came here for an answer to a question and what I got was sarcasm and belittlement. As I understand "current" it is really a draw rather than a "feed". If the circuit is only drawing 40 amps, the current in the line will never exceed 40 amps PERIOD. Unless there is a surge for which I have a surge protector. I have #6 wire rated for 75 amps as the main line in. From there it is split via a terminal strip to feed each controller. The wire to the controllers is #10 wire rated for 20 amps, but since each controller will never draw more than 6.6 amps, the current will never exceed that. I have been without GFCI's for 10 years and literally spend at least an hour every night crawling around the ground chasing bulbs and have never once had so much as a hair stand up. Your insinuation that I have no regard for the safety of others is insulting and uncalled for. My yard cannot be accessed by anyone without climbing over a short barrier. The people that come to my show are very respectful and I have never had anyone go roaming through the yard. Now with that said, since I cannot depend on the people of this forum to offer professional advice without making people feel like idiots, I will consult an electrician to come to the house and look over what I have BEFORE I fire it up and before I do something that will damage a controller. If I find that my understanding of current is wrong I will make whatever changes I need to. However, if I find out that I am right, I am coming back with a truckload of crow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfing4Dough Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Show me in the NEC code and/or the Florida building code where not having a GFCI in your yard is a code violation and I will eat those words.I would be curious how you interpret NEC 210.8(A)(3)? NEC 210.8(A)(3) requires ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for dwelling unit outdoor 15A and 20A 125V receptacles. Only exceptions are receptacles that are not readily accessible and are supplied by a dedicated branch circuit for electric snow-melting or deicing equipment (instead permitted to be installed in accordance with NEC 426.28).STRONGLY suggest you re-"look up the code" yourself, and also strongly suggest you use GFCI's. Sorry that they are a "pain" but so is electricity (and lawyers). Sure, accidents are rare flukes, but when one happens, it sure would take away the Christmas joy for you and your victim (which will possibly be you too). I suspect that the reason you believe GFCI's are a "pain" is because you have had one that kept tripping. That right there shows you most likely have had some sort of current leakage, which fortunately didn't "leak" into you, yet. Instead of finding the problem, you instead have chosen to bypass the safety mechanism. Have you ever looked closely at the construction of most strings of Christmas lights? Not exactly stellar work (thanks to Chinese standards)--definitely not good enough to trust 100% in a life and death situation. Every risk reduction technique should be taken, especially one as easy and inexpensive as a GFCI. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 As noted by a forum user above NEC 210.8(A)(3) requires ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for dwelling unit outdoor 15A and 20A 125V receptacles. Only exceptions are receptacles that are not readily accessible and are supplied by a dedicated branch circuit for electric snow-melting or deicing equipment (instead permitted to be installed in accordance with NEC 426.28)The GFCI issue will always be one that people disagree with. However, the National Electric Code requires them for outdoor use.No one here here can tell you how you should electrically power your display. What you choose to do on your property, with your lights and your electricity is a decision you make. However, please note that the NEC requires them on outdoor receptacles. While I am not a lawyer, nor am I offering any sort of legal advise, ignoring the NEC in this situation might not be advisable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts