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New Pool Hook LOR for light Pump


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I agree, last year, the fountain had a real bad time keeping up. It takes about 1-2 seconds to get the water pumped through. That may seem small but its accualy a pain when sequencing.

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Also I just thought of all the stress being put on the motor. Is kinda like an inflatable with LOR. You should always keep the motor running just light the lights up for them to be noticed.

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I just Did and on/ off . No more then 2 times during a song.

the floods dont work unless they are underthe water, or in the back acing the viewers.

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The way the real water shows do it is to have a pump going, and control the flow with valves. It's a lot more complicated than that but that's the basic idea...

-Tim

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I was thinking about a manifold an a couple of selonids, but even that would probbly harm the pump more because it holds the pressure in.

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ndiaz wrote:

I was thinking about a manifold an a couple of selonids, but even that would probbly harm the pump more because it holds the pressure in.


You could add another valve or zone that would be piped under water and open when all the fountain valves are closed. This would allow water to keep flowing at all times.

Brian
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Controling a fountain with LOR is not that big of a deal. As has been pointed out you need to plan the sequnce 1-2 seconds in advance to the water effect inorder to allow the selinoid to open. I use a 1-1/2 hp pump feeding 1-1/4" flexible irrigation pipe to the fontain with 8 - 24 volt sprinkler valves. Attached is a picture showing one of the spray heads. The outter ring is divided into 4 quanterants with 7 1/4" Harbor Freight brass air chucks each. This seems to be about the limit that the 1" PVC and pump setup can handle and still acheive 15 feet of lift.

Attached files 117110=6960-Fountain Spray.jpg

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ndiaz wrote:

I was thinking about a manifold an a couple of selonids, but even that would probbly harm the pump more because it holds the pressure in.

Wouldn't you have a tank and pressure switch on the pump, like a well setup in this case?
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Its a cheep pump from walmart, the pool is about 5 seasons old. I used it lasyear with diffrent pond sprays.

hopefully i can get a sprinkler valve form HD or menards.

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bhays wrote:

ndiaz wrote:
I was thinking about a manifold an a couple of selonids, but even that would probbly harm the pump more because it holds the pressure in.

Wouldn't you have a tank and pressure switch on the pump, like a well setup in this case?

I think you want the pump to operate constantly. I believe the 'real' shows have some sort of auto pressure relief valve that keeps the water recirculating (sort of like power washers do). This is on the order of the suggestion above to have an 'extra' valve that piped out under the water, except that it's fully automatic.

-Tim
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Might be able to get away with using a simple pop-off valve like the ones used on water heaters. I have no idea what pressure fountain type systems operate at.

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tfischer wrote:

bhays wrote:
ndiaz wrote:
I was thinking about a manifold an a couple of selonids, but even that would probbly harm the pump more because it holds the pressure in.

Wouldn't you have a tank and pressure switch on the pump, like a well setup in this case?

I think you want the pump to operate constantly. I believe the 'real' shows have some sort of auto pressure relief valve that keeps the water recirculating (sort of like power washers do). This is on the order of the suggestion above to have an 'extra' valve that piped out under the water, except that it's fully automatic.

-Tim

So when all the sprays are off, it would just pump the water back in, like a pool filter.
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tfischer wrote:

bhays wrote:
ndiaz wrote:
I was thinking about a manifold an a couple of selonids, but even that would probbly harm the pump more because it holds the pressure in.

Wouldn't you have a tank and pressure switch on the pump, like a well setup in this case?

I think you want the pump to operate constantly. I believe the 'real' shows have some sort of auto pressure relief valve that keeps the water recirculating (sort of like power washers do). This is on the order of the suggestion above to have an 'extra' valve that piped out under the water, except that it's fully automatic.

-Tim

So when all the sprays are off, it would just pump the water back in, like a pool filter.
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bhays wrote:

Wouldn't you have a tank and pressure switch on the pump, like a well setup in this case?
That would not work. One of the facts of liquids (like hydralic fluid) is that they do not compress.
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You wouldn't be compressing it, just maintaining a reservoir. I'm not sure why it wouldn't work...that's how every well system in the midwest works. I have a pump/tank in my garage on a well for my sprinklers...it seems to work.

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Correct, water is not compressible. Holding tanks use an air bladder which is compressible to keep the pump from running continuously. Pump runs until it builds up to a predetermined pressure, say 50 psi, and then shuts off until the pressure drops to another predetermined pressure, say 30 psi. The advantage is that in a home/well system the pump does not kick in everytime the faucet is opened or the toilet is flushed.

The major disadvantage to this system in a display would be that as the pressure drops the "fountain" would not maintain a constant height. As the pressure dropped the fountain would decrease in height until the pump kicked on again.

I am guessing that the best way to handle a display system would be to have the pump always running and then have a valve to close the recirculation and open the fountain.

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When you say recirculating do you mean constantly taking in water from the pool, etc. and constantly releasing water back into the pool? In a typical setup with several fountain 'outlets' in series, would you have two valves for every 'outlet' then? What if you wanted to have say the 2nd and 5th 'outlets' in the series open at the same time? I am getting confused.


intake -- pump -- fountain --- fountain --- fountain --- exhaust

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No expert but recirculation is what I would do. Otherwise the pump is going to be starting and stopping continually and you will have to wait wait while pressure is built before the fountain reaches full height.

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Lets just use a simple example. Lets say you have a pump, whose output flow is matched to the fountain heads, and 3 fountain heads. If you have all the fountain heads open at one time then there is no problem, the the capacity of the pump output is matched by the water flow through the heads. When one of the heads closes the output from the pump, which remains constant, now has to flow through only two heads. A build-up of pressure starts to occur in the at the motor. Any of these three things would happen to relieve the pressure: the pump motor would burn out, the pipes would start to leak and eventually rupture, and/or the fountain heads would explode. Now to solve this, we would install a(some) valve(s) to keep the water-flow constant. So, if the water-flow from the pump is x, then the flow through each head is 1/3x. If we have 2 heads open, then the total flow is 2/3x, so the relief valve would let 1/3x out of the system. In a simple, diy system, there would be two valves for each head. One that would be connected to the head, and one that would be a relief. When the relief is on, the head would not be and visa-versa.

In more complex, professional systems, the valves are proportional and have to compensate for variable water flow, with multiple water-flow ratings.

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They say pictures are worth a thousand words, so here is a picture. In the picture, each of the valves acts as a selector, sending the water to either the fountain head or the recirculation output. The recirculation output would simply let the water back into the pond.

Attached files 117491=6986-Water.jpg

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A picture is definitely worth a couple thousand words with me. I understand what you are saying now. Basically, just use four way solenoids...gotcha

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