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DevMike wrote:

Man, now I'm sorry I even said anything. That will teach me for showing a sneak peek and trying to keep everyone involved.

Please continue!

Will you please show a screen shot of that dialog with the "DMX" tab open?

...and it's time to ask for CM15A support in the X10 tab.
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LightORamaDan wrote:

GoofyGuy wrote:
Already have the Elor as a back up plan. Wont order more of them till LOR shows us how we can use it. Will it be limited by universes like SuperStar is limited to total channels per license. Will it have options more more universes based on current license level or will it be an add on.

Or will it be based on LOR 1.31 equippment which will really throw a wrench in the works. Regardless progress is good and I cant wait to see the outcome.


Well LOR S3 already has a license level linked indirectly to channels as it is currently controller related. With the advent of something like E1.31 the dynamics change a little but we have not finalized license changes (if any) for E1.31...

As far as LOR 1.31... As mentioned earlier we will not hold up the release of E1.31 to correspond with the release of LOR's E1.31 DMX or E1.31 CCM (Cosmic Color Matrix) devices.

Dan


All of which is understandable. I have the advanced now and hope that is still the right choice. Ive had it since 32 channels, hope it still works for 10000. I would not be surprised as you mention the dynamics change a bit when you dealing with that protocol as I can with not much money in terms of this hobby have 10k channels.

I appreciate all info at this time as Im still sequencing for a few thousand channels RGB and Pixels, hope that 20k will be my end result. I wouldnt blame you as a company to have universe limitations at that point based on fees as its a business and profit is the goal. Keep up your customer service that I have recieved in the past and I will continue to be a customer. One thing I can say from my experience as the software did not get along with my computer you guys are on the ball in terms of helping out.
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Jeff Millard wrote:

LightORamaDan wrote:
Why Jeff found it necessary to make his post I do not know...

A couple silly posts prompted more information about E1.31 in one day... than we've gotten in six weeks. Seems pretty productive from this side of the fence.

Jeff


You mean ANTI-productive. I won't be posting any more sneak peaks for anything any longer. From now on, when it comes out, it comes out.

After your post, I had to send an apology to Dan about posting that screen shot. He told me at the onset to keep quiet. While he was gracious and forgiving enough to say that I didn't do anything wrong, I'm sure he's probably not happy with me.

While you may be happy with the results, I'm not. I am painfully aware of the time crunch in relation to E131 -- my recent 16 hr days can attest to that. All that I wanted to do was let people know we were diligently working on it, and that there was light at the end of the tunnel. Instead Dan had to get involved in a brew-ha-ha that he can ill afford to spend time on.

Now I understand why all the rest of the devs keep their mouths shut. Lesson learned.
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DevMike wrote:

Jeff Millard wrote:
LightORamaDan wrote:
Why Jeff found it necessary to make his post I do not know...

A couple silly posts prompted more information about E1.31 in one day... than we've gotten in six weeks. Seems pretty productive from this side of the fence.

Jeff


You mean ANTI-productive. I won't be posting any more sneak peaks for anything any longer. From now on, when it comes out, it comes out.

After your post, I had to send an apology to Dan about posting that screen shot. He told me at the onset to keep quiet. While he was gracious and forgiving enough to say that I didn't do anything wrong, I'm sure he's probably not happy with me.

While you may be happy with the results, I'm not. I am painfully aware of the time crunch in relation to E131 -- my recent 16 hr days can attest to that. All that I wanted to do was let people know we were diligently working on it, and that there was light at the end of the tunnel. Instead Dan had to get involved in a brew-ha-ha that he can ill afford to spend time on.

Now I understand why all the rest of the devs keep their mouths shut. Lesson learned.


Now boys settle down. Like the rest of us Jeff wants more info. Before we start trying to get so deep into displays and end up wasting time because of limitaions. Nothing wrong with wanting something new, as pixels gain traction, were all trying to find ways to make them both feasible as well affordable. If CCR's were feasible in my payscale I would have no care in this thread, but Im a hands on get into the mess and if saving money only costs me work then lemme work!

As a developer its in your job and your nature to show progress. I know at work anytime I find a better way, or create a better form to help out in my field I send a draft out and as soon as it hits the managements desks they want a final copy now and toss the old forms that are not as useful as fast as possible. Its not that you dont want to share, its not that Dan doesnt want us to still be captivated, its as simple as you will have to answer questions when you post a question as that.

Its ok to post things to keep us intersted. As its the same thing the box office does to make sure we know something is coming that will warrant our attention and money. As in this hobby, and primarily your companys money is in the software. As the time goes by and were left wondering what we will be able to do or worse yet unable to do, we being the search for what will fill that gap.

So by making a comment that you wont do that again, that might be more harmful than good. Your job is creating software correct? For who do you do this. Well theres a few people you do this for. You do this for Dan as hes the boss, you do it for you as its pays you as well, which also means its for your family. Last you do it for us. The people who keep the money coming in, who keeps payroll flowing, and new ideas funded for Light O Rama to continue. Dont be mad or bashful that you made a post that sparked the core of this forum to jump and and pay attention. If anything you may have kept some money in house for the company as without that small snipet of infot to spark Dan into the conversation, how long would we still know nothing about the progress of the protocol were looking to use this season? Without knowing for much longer, when do we start as I stated earlier looking for the software that does hold that solution.

Im not a part of the company by any means other than I have a few controllers and the top of the software I could afford. I make no money off your products, nor will I ever that is not my intent. I can sit in my car everynight last season and just enjoy the show. I like the software and I wont lie I have a few others in Demo installed on my PC to play with. I for one know what I plan to accomplish this year and I also know the you and the rest of the crew are working on this for not just you, but for the anyone else willing to use LOR. As your slip has bought me about another few weeks of interst its in your wallets and Dans companys interest to keep us all captivated.

Im sorry this went on so long, but dont say something to the effect your sorry you posted it. As you dont know how much profit that small post may have just kept in your companys name.


*steps off soapbox.
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Thank you for the update, Dan and DevMike, I really do appreciate it!

Jeff, I don't think DevMike is questioning your result, but your methods of getting to that result.
While an update is nice to have every few weeks, Forcing a responce by questioning lor's ability to deliver probably wasn't the best option you had at the time.

That said: it's just my outside observation. Take it as you'd like.

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All,

Here are my thoughts on this whole E1.31 issue and a couple of other ones.

I totally understand that LOR has to look at the business bottom line but they have to understand that they're not going to get all or even 50% of the pixel business. I think they will be lucky to get 5 or 10%. Most people have a hard time paying LORs prices for pixel strips compared to using controllers from the like of J1SYS and Pixel Strips from Ray in China especially considering that your using the older 6803 strips and not the newer ones.

I also understand LOR wanting to wait till they have hardware to show before releasing E1.31 but again they need to understand that their customers are looking for a solution now and LOR does not have the luxury to hold off E1.31 support.

I also understand that LOR is looking into license changes but they have to understand that the community will likely not accept any changes and will demand that E1.31 be fully supported under the current S3 advances without any price changes or limitations.

Now what I really think is the biggest issue that's bugging many is why is it taking so long to release E1.31 other than stating we're waiting for new hardware which sounds to most like a CYA statement. Why are they talking about releasing to beta now? Look guys, although you may not consider them a major player but xlights came out about a year and a half ago and has had E1.31 support shortly after it came out. HLS came out only a few months ago and had E.131 support almost since the beginning. LSP has had E.131 support for well over a year. Vixen has E1.31 support. Still we have no E1.31 support from LOR, get the point?

So the question is why has it taken LOR this long to support E1.31? They are the last to support it. In my way of thinking it's been a terrible business decision to have waited this long. It hurts not only the lighting community but LOR reputation in that community.

I'm not trying to put LOR down. Heck, I just spent money, money that right now is hard to come by, for an LOR controller and the S3 Advanced. I want to see LOR succeed and stop being the butt of jokes it currently has about not releasing products on time.

My advice to LOR is simple.

1) If E1.31 is basically working, even if it has a few bugs, release it as a public beta NOW, this week, by Friday. You can easily do this if you want to. If released as a public beta no one is going to complain about it having a few bugs because right now no one is depending on it for a working show. If someone does complain I'll bet the community will come to your defense.

2) Make up your mind about pricing and release that information at the same time as the public beta. My advice would be to release it to S3 Advanced users with no increase in price and no channel limitations. If you increase the price of S3 Advanced when E1.31 is added then more people will just use Vixen, HLS, LSP or xlights which has it as a standard feature.

So the bottom line is this. LOR is no longer the pack leader. That roll has been taken over by the community. If LOR ever expects to regain the lead they will have to make major changes, which included releasing products on time, and do this without raising prices on S3 or the future S4.

OMT, I think your going to have to look at the prices on Pixel products. I can understand a higher price that one pays from China because you have to import them and also pay Philips their 5% royalty for PWM RGB pixels but you can't charge twice the price and expect people to flock to your door. However if you charge a reasonable price then those that want a more turn key solution will likely come to you before going to the community for their pixel product.

Sorry to be so blunt but this is the way I see it, IMHO.

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Guest wbottomley

Timon wrote:

My advice to LOR is simple.

1) If E1.31 is basically working, even if it has a few bugs, release it as a public beta NOW, this week, by Friday. You can easily do this if you want to. If released as a public beta no one is going to complain about it having a few bugs because right now no one is depending on it for a working show. If someone does complain I'll bet the community will come to your defense.

2) Make up your mind about pricing and release that information at the same time as the public beta. My advice would be to release it to S3 Advanced users with no increase in price and no channel limitations. If you increase the price of S3 Advanced when E1.31 is added then more people will just use Vixen, HLS, LSP or xlights which has it as a standard feature.

So the bottom line is this. LOR is no longer the pack leader. That roll has been taken over by the community. If LOR ever expects to regain the lead they will have to make major changes, which included releasing products on time, and do this without raising prices on S3 or the future S4.

OMT, I think your going to have to look at the prices on Pixel products. I can understand a higher price that one pays from China because you have to import them and also pay Philips their 5% royalty for PWM RGB pixels but you can't charge twice the price and expect people to flock to your door. However if you charge a reasonable price then those that want a more turn key solution will likely come to you before going to the community for their pixel product.

Sorry to be so blunt but this is the way I see it, IMHO.



And... what makes you think they will listen?
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Guest Don Gillespie

Orville wrote:



Never mind. Saw the answer after already typed this. Some odd reason when I was reading this thread, never showed me the 2nd page where you answered this already. Dang gremlins keep getting into the forum! Hmmm, maybe they sneak out of the forum and into the hardware area of LOR creating those delays on releases.

DISREGARD POST BELOW THIS TEXT.

But they did in 2012 didn't they? Could have sworn I saw them listed in the grab and run sale too for 2012. I know they weren't available in 2011.

Although I could have sworn I saw them in the 2012 early sale, but don't think I've seen the CCB's actually for sale on the LOR site presently, unless it's a hidden link somewhere.


Orv wouldn't it be easier to to delete the stuff you didn't want to say, instead of typing in bold letters hey don't read this
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Timon wrote:

All,

Here are my thoughts on this whole E1.31 issue and a couple of other ones.

I totally understand that LOR has to look at the business bottom line but they have to understand that they're not going to get all or even 50% of the pixel business. I think they will be lucky to get 5 or 10%. Most people have a hard time paying LORs prices for pixel strips compared to using controllers from the like of J1SYS and Pixel Strips from Ray in China especially considering that your using the older 6803 strips and not the newer ones.

I also understand LOR wanting to wait till they have hardware to show before releasing E1.31 but again they need to understand that their customers are looking for a solution now and LOR does not have the luxury to hold off E1.31 support.

I also understand that LOR is looking into license changes but they have to understand that the community will likely not accept any changes and will demand that E1.31 be fully supported under the current S3 advances without any price changes or limitations.

Now what I really think is the biggest issue that's bugging many is why is it taking so long to release E1.31 other than stating we're waiting for new hardware which sounds to most like a CYA statement. Why are they talking about releasing to beta now? Look guys, although you may not consider them a major player but xlights came out about a year and a half ago and has had E1.31 support shortly after it came out. HLS came out only a few months ago and had E.131 support almost since the beginning. LSP has had E.131 support for well over a year. Vixen has E1.31 support. Still we have no E1.31 support from LOR, get the point?

So the question is why has it taken LOR this long to support E1.31? They are the last to support it. In my way of thinking it's been a terrible business decision to have waited this long. It hurts not only the lighting community but LOR reputation in that community.

I'm not trying to put LOR down. Heck, I just spent money, money that right now is hard to come by, for an LOR controller and the S3 Advanced. I want to see LOR succeed and stop being the butt of jokes it currently has about not releasing products on time.

My advice to LOR is simple.

1) If E1.31 is basically working, even if it has a few bugs, release it as a public beta NOW, this week, by Friday. You can easily do this if you want to. If released as a public beta no one is going to complain about it having a few bugs because right now no one is depending on it for a working show. If someone does complain I'll bet the community will come to your defense.

2) Make up your mind about pricing and release that information at the same time as the public beta. My advice would be to release it to S3 Advanced users with no increase in price and no channel limitations. If you increase the price of S3 Advanced when E1.31 is added then more people will just use Vixen, HLS, LSP or xlights which has it as a standard feature.

So the bottom line is this. LOR is no longer the pack leader. That roll has been taken over by the community. If LOR ever expects to regain the lead they will have to make major changes, which included releasing products on time, and do this without raising prices on S3 or the future S4.

OMT, I think your going to have to look at the prices on Pixel products. I can understand a higher price that one pays from China because you have to import them and also pay Philips their 5% royalty for PWM RGB pixels but you can't charge twice the price and expect people to flock to your door. However if you charge a reasonable price then those that want a more turn key solution will likely come to you before going to the community for their pixel product.

Sorry to be so blunt but this is the way I see it, IMHO.


All of this makes sense and its a point that has been echoing for a few months now. Why are they waiting for their hardware, its simple you have to continue making money. Will thier 1.31 compliant matrix and hardware be much different than whats already out there? If I had to guess no. The biggest difference is if thiers fails, they will be right there to back it up. There are so many pixels and 1.31 gateways out there that makes the price drop for us DIY guys. The stuff they offer will be more expensive, but it will do what it is intended to do.

I know some of us can handle some solder and sweat. There are many out there that can not. Those are the people that LOR will make the most money on. As well good for them, if someone wants a display they cant build themselves let them buy it. I dont harp on them for that at all. Some of us like fast cars, I can build one but for those that cant you have Shelbys and ZR1 Vettes.

I dont mind waiting as long as I know what Im waiting for. If Im waiting for them to get their hardware to tell us what our 3rd party 1.31 will be able to do, then I will not wait for long. I dont mind that they want it all at once to maximize profit but I still need to know what is in it for me who already has a CCR Superstar license and Advanced License.

All I ask is let us know some concrete dates.
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Something must be getting in the water at LOR HQ...we have the owner/CEO of the company admonishing the group like we're middle school students, a developer and the CEO pissed off at a CUSTOMER for making a comment that they feel wasn't appropriate, and then shifting blame around a screen shot being shown when it shouldn't have been. This has more drama than a lot of reality shows.

Meanwhile, after 4 pages of posts, there still isn't an answer as to whether LOR users can depend on E131 being ready in time for this year's lighting season, and as importantly, what that solution will look like.

Its why more and more users are looking at, or have already settled on alternatives...the number of usable, cost efficient solutions are growing, and there is no need to wait around hoping for an additional vendor to finally bring product to the table....

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I believe that alot of this B.S. could have been avoided if the information would have been relayed to the members instead of, wait 4 months and see, 6 weeks it will be out and so on. How about a weekly or bi-weekly report on how the "new" stuff is going?? Such as, The beta tester are working on so and so and all testing is going good, or The new product is in its final testing and should be out in a few weeks. Not what we have been seeing like 6 months or 6 weeks. A little tidbit of information would go a LONG way to make customers feel it is realy go to happen. People don't want to wait till July to figure out if they can build their display or not.

This is just my opinion and nothing against LOR, please don't take it that way.

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For the record, I am not mad at anyone but myself. I thought what I was doing would build excitement and show progress. I did something I was told not to do, and it opened a can of worms that need not been opened.

From now on, I'll just keep to myself.

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