Newbie looking for some advice...

[DCHMRT]

Hello all!

So I have been bitten by the LOR/Christmas Light bug and this is going to be my first year trying to attempt to incorporate LOR into my display. I have spent the last 8 or so months reading the forums and trying to learn as much as I can from everyone (much to the dismay of my girlfriend:)).

As it stands I am looking at starting off with 48 channels, and possibly a couple of CCRs. One of the major parts of my display is going to be my 2 rooflines and the 4 windows on the 2nd floor.

My question for you guys is do you think I am better off doing 4 diffrent color strands twisted together for them or should I look for some RGB strips to do the outline? I would love to do CCRs all around but unfort can't afford the approx 120' that I would need.

I appreciate all the input you guys are able to provide!

Chris

[digdeepfundraising]

This is my first year and I'm going with 5050 RGB around my windows and roof line as its just one strip and a choice of so many colours

[beeiilll]

I have to agree with Jeff.
I have 4 different color strings of LEDs around my windows and I am going to switch over to the "dumb" 5050 pixel strips this year to make it not only easier to put things up but it will also allow me to get more than just the 4 colors out of the pixel strips. Getting the 4 strings around the windows and doors to look straight and evenly spaced is a lot of work and tough.
When you figure that a "quality" brand of LED lights in a 70 count string can run approx $20, then paying approx. $25 to $30 for a 5 meter strip of pixels is not that bad. Granted you still need the controller but overall you are getting so many more colors available and less work to install the strips. You will find that doing sequencing will take longer to do as you have the 3 RGB colors to deal with instead of just an on/off for a string but I think that is not really any trouble.
The only thing I would not agree with Jeff on was his choice of strings as it shows as only an IP66 weatherproofing so not really the best for outdoor.
But Jeff did say that it was just a quick search and there are a ton of vendors out there as well as Ray Wu to look through and find these strips from.
I just received my first 2 RGB strips from eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/220888921557?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

These are really nice strips that are encased in silicone with an adhesive strip on the back of them and are the 5050 Leds at 30 Leds per meter. The strips are 5 meters (16.4 feet) long.
I have just started to play with them and the colors are bright and they seem very well constructed. A few other people on this forum have gotten these same ones and are happy with them so far as well.
I have contacted the vendor for these and he is getting ready to list more of them soon so they will be available in case you are interested in them.
I am going to be buying a bunch more over the summer to do my house for this coming years display. Then maybe next year I will get into the "smart" pixels and build a mega tree with some of them or depending on pricing I may use CCR's or the equivalent for the mega tree.
Hope that helps your thoughts.
Bill

[DownTown]

beeiilll wrote:

The only thing I would not agree with Jeff on was his choice of strings as it shows as only an IP66 weatherproofing so not really the best for outdoor.

Beeiilll -

I have to disagree with your comment above. An IP66 rating will provide for "No ingress of dust; complete protection against contact" (that's the first 6) and "Water projected in powerful jets (12.5mm nozzle) against the enclosure from any direction shall have no harmful effects." (that's the second 6)

The only higher ratings will provide water tight protection that will allow you to submerge they device (IP67 and IP68) with no water intrusion/damage.

D.T.

[trafficman]

Jeff, I am looking into doing the 5050 strips and I did see a diagram for hooking them up on here in the forum. Can you post the link of the 5050 strip you bought along with power supplies. I have windows and roof lines that I have been running incan around every year. Just dont know what to buy and make it work. I do know I need a couple of DC controllers this year to make them work.

[beeiilll]

Jeff,

No problem. They can lump me with anyone they like! I have plenty of lumps already and don't worry too much about a few more - LOL.

Yes the IP ratings system is a bit foolish with these now as it is. I was just trying to show the difference between the one you found and the one I bought, but who can be sure if one is really any better than the other. The items from China don't really conform to any US standards yet anyway and it will probably be some time before they do (if ever).

D.T.

Well I would rather try to find these type of strips that are at least rated for an IP 68 if I can even though the IP system is not strictly enforced by our Chinese manufacturers yet. Where I live and with my weather these strips will have ice and water on them for a large portion of their outdoor time, so I want them to be the best weatherproofing that I can hopefully find.

I have found that most of the IP66 rated strips are either inside a silicone tube or they are wrapped in a silicone shell that is open on one side. That can allow water in or the tube can get damaged which will allow water in. The strip I bought is "supposed to be" rated at IP 68 as it has a silicone covering that was formed over the strip and cured onto it during manufacturing. I am hopeful that it will last quite a while in the weather.
However, that said, I will be making up a frame soon to fasten the strip too and hanging it out for the summer to test and see how these hold up.

But to each his own as we all live in different climates and with different needs or demands from our toys. So folks should do the research and buy that which THEY feel meets their needs.

And Jeff is right on 2012 looking to be a very bright year!

Hey Jeff, should I make my sig be:

2012 - Year of the Pixel

[beeiilll]

trafficman wrote:

Jeff, I am looking into doing the 5050 strips and I did see a diagram for hooking them up on here in the forum. Can you post the link of the 5050 strip you bought along with power supplies. I have windows and roof lines that I have been running incan around every year. Just dont know what to buy and make it work. I do know I need a couple of DC controllers this year to make them work.

I don't want to speak for Jeff here, but if you are going with the "dumb" pixel strips then you will need:

The LOR DC controllers which will be able to control 5 "sets" of strips, depending on the wattage draw of each "set".

12 volt (or 5 volt) power supplies, depending on whether you will run 12V strips or 5V strips and then the total amperage of strips will determine how many power supplies and what size ones you will need.

And of course the 5050 LED strips. I would say the 30 LEDs per meter will work great for most anyone rather than the 60 LEDs per meter strips as the 30/M ones are plenty bright and won't draw as much current as the 60/M ones. There are a bunch of them around to buy from either eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=RGB+5M+500CM+5050+Waterproof+Flexible+LED+Strips+Lights+150+leds+30leds%2Fm+auto+&_trksid=p5197.c0.m627

or from Ray Wu: http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/701799/209843764/Flexible-LED-Strip.html


Good luck with your display and just shout for any help. We all are getting into the pixel craze it seems so there is and will be a lot of discussions on here about them this year for sure.
Bill

[olmsb4d2]

I haven't seen an explanation of how you mount RGB strips on the house. I've watched the videos of Crackers display as well as several others and can't figure out the best way to secure them to the house. Does anyone have a method they want to share?

I understand how the controls work but I can't get my head wrapped around the best way to mount them. Keep in mind that I'm in Colorado and I had a foot of snow on the roof for most of the season. I'm using C9's currently and even though they were buried in snow they kept on working, there was an occasional tripped GFI but I never worried about my investment in lights going up in smoke.

[hdracer]

Believe they are using PVC & conduit hardware to mount to under soffits area. Use tie wraps or zip ties. Don't quote me on this. But I believe this is the standard.

[beeiilll]

Johnny wins for this one !!!

PVC pipe is one of the easiest ways to use to mount the strips too it appears, although you could use things like small strips of wood or there are things like vinyl J channel for vinyl siding that will work well too.

I have not figured whether to use the J channel or pipe route yet to mount my strips too. I have to go pick up some pieces of each and see what will work for me.

Another great source of information on the strips and using them is over on the Australian Christmas Lighting forum:
http://auschristmaslighting.com/forums/index.php

Those folks have been pioneers in this area and there are a lot of pictures and info on making display items as well as the mounting ideas.

Part of the problem with mounting the strips is that they are somewhat fragile and need care in handling. Not that they are like glass or anything but the substrate that the leds are mounted on is a circuit board and doesn't want to be flexed around too much.
Also how the strips are protected by either a silicone tube placed over them, silicone extruded onto the strip as it is made, or some other form of protection can influence how they want to be mounted. It would be tough to use tie wraps on a strip that is loose inside a silicone tube I would think as the strip would tend to want to shift around in the tube and you would not want to clamp the tie wraps too tight and possible damage the silicone cover and allow moisture to get into the strip.

This is fairly new and the different areas around the country will present some different challenges to the mounting and also how well these strips will hold up to minus temperatures as well as desert heat temps.

Fun, challenging, and frustrating new toys to work with and make new things happen with though.

[olmsb4d2]

Trust me I love the way they look and the potential they have to create a really great display. Just not convinved that they would hold up to the conditions.

So I'm doing a little testing with some seasonal entertainment spotlights. I have landscape lights mounted in a rock wall on my patio and I installed the new spotlights in those receptacles which are by no means weather proof but are also not entirely exposed to the elements. I managed to get them installed during a warm spell but now they'be been buried under a couple of feet of snow since Feb 3rd and they're still working. Maybe they're not as fragile as I think they are.

[beeiilll]

I was tinkering this afternoon in the basement (insert mad scientist chuckle here) and was looking at some clear polycarbonate tubing that I had bought for another project.
The strip would slide right in the stuff easily and be very well protected.
It is simple to work with and I have the solvent glue that is used with it to bond it together.
I am thinking of making a sample frame for around a window to try out and see how it would work. It will certainly protect the strip very nicely and be more than IP68 tight. The corners are just cut each piece at a 45 degree angle and then cement it together with the strip inside.
Granted that repairs will be a nightmare but then again we really don't often build things with the intention of having to fix them often.
And it would not be that hard to make up some form of a slip coupling for the corners to be able to take things apart.
The other thing I like is that the poly tubing is easy to glue things too like mounting brackets or even a small enclosure box at some point for a power supply, amplifier, or DMX controller.
Have to sit at the bench and play with some fittings and ideas for an evening to see how easy and whether it would be worth it to do.

[harrison0550]

Welcome to the madness! Jeff and Bill are probably going to kill me for saying this because they know how much I love the rgb strips and pixels and we all have been testing various controllers and data protocols recently but being your first year my advice would be to stick with the LOR boards and get your feet wet sequencing regular lights. Not that I doubt your ability or anything of the sort but rather because the rgb stuff is changing rapidly. I've got a bunch of crap sitting in my garage right now from sandevices, J1sys boards, enttec opens, ray wu 2801 controllers, etc and now I'm looking at the e1.31 bridge coming plus the native possibilities of LOR to running e1.31. Lol it's just overwhelming the possibilities for hooking it all up and deciding on one setup only to find it obsolete in 3 months is a bad idea in my mind. I'm sure that Jeff and Bill will agree that sequencing the rgb strips is a pain as well currently and gets even harder if the strips come in rbg Instead of rgb and you have to go in and double click and change each pixel manually. You may save a few bucks going rgb but you most certainly are not going to save any time in sequencing. A song last year took me at least 3-4 hours to sequence and that's after I learned all the short cuts and got the hang of it. I don't even want to try and guess the hours it's gonna take to sequence the rgb stuff I have planned this year. So to sum up my long winded post lol I would stick with the rock solid LOR boards and led lights this year for no other reason than the support and service you will receive when things don't go as planned and let us re re's with the rgb bug sort out the easiest setup with LOR before you buy a bunch of stuff you may not need.

[beeiilll]

Alright harrison, I guess I will have to stop and pick Jeff up on the way to "talk to you" about this !!HA

Actually you are right on all counts, to be honest.

I spent way too many thousands of dollars on LED strings just a couple of years ago so I agree that it can get out of control way too fast with this stuff.
Although I do have uses for the strings that I am going to replace around my windows and doors with the RGB strips, it still does not mean that I could just throw them away.

And I guess I better take a look at sequencing the RGB stuff before I go much further with trying to talk others into anything at this point as well. I have not even started down that path yet.

It is tough to recommend one thing over another in this "hobby" because of all the different uses, advantages of one thing over another, costs, etc, etc, etc.

So for a "first timer" you are more than correct in recommending that they just use the standard LOR controllers and light strings to get the hang of things and how it all works would be a better start up route. Then add something new the next year such as the "dumb" pixel strips or CCR's. Then add another new thing the next year after.

This is supposed to be a hobby and fun after all. Not a race to see if you can outshine the neighbor down the street or how many lights you can throw up in a season.

It is way too easy to go overboard at this very quickly.

[harrison0550]

Hahaha That it is. Like you said we aren't going to throw away our current lights and just use rgb and chances are the OP already has a bunch of lights he can utilize (well I think I read somewhere Jeff wants to get to all rgb but then again he's been a little upset lately so I try not to question him, I dont want to get on his ignore list lol) Im taking all my leds from the house and building 4 eight foot mini/mega trees out in the yard. The cost the first year is fairly significant however you break it up there are cost that come into play either way that a lot of people forget like spt wire, vampire plugs, props, mini tree's, arches, etc. But with rgb you got power supplies, controllers, extension wires, blah blah blah and no support from anyone on any of it or even a guaranty you ordered the right stuff and for a first timer if something goes wrong you can't just run down to Lowes and replace a strand of lights or get LOR to rush you a board cause you fried one, your instead at the mercy of China distributors to get it to you. I just think to keep it fun and exciting you got to start small and grow like Bill said. I've almost considered scrapping the rgb stuff this year because it gets so frustrating at times with wiring pins 1,2 to pins 4,5 and injecting power and so on. There has got to be an easier way and until it finds it's way into our hands I can't whole heartedly recommend rgb to anyone and is the reason I havn't posted back in the other dmx threads my findings on everything I've tested cause currently I'm not thrilled with any solution I've tried YET. Other than the strips themselves, their so pretty! LOL

[harrison0550]

Jeff Millard wrote:

harrison0550 wrote:

...I dont want to get on his ignore list LOL...

I was starting to wonder if you'd put me in yours.


Jeff

Oh no, We are on a mission to figure out all this RGB stuff. Doesnt work to well if we ignore each other. Ive just been sitting back playing with all the different controllers and sequencing for the last few weeks. Been trying to find the best option not only economically but with ease of installation as well. I'm pretty happy with a few devices Ive ordered but until i get my hands on a few more I didnt want to give an opinion and drive anyone in the wrong direction. As we speak I'm messing around with the little 3 channel dmx controller.............

[harrison0550]

Well since we have pretty much hijacked this guys thread talking about rgb (although I dont think he will mind) I will show you what my first step in the rgb transition is. In the video below I have 16 mini trees currently ran off a LOR pc board with 16 strands of warm white rope light. Im cutting the rope lights off the mini trees and putting rgb dumb strip on them right now. Like we were talking about in another thread I'm taking 2 strips and pulling the 3m tape off the back and sticking them together so they can be seen at a full 360 degrees in the spiral. Current plan is to run each one with the cheap 3 channel dmx controller. Hopefully with e1.31 I will be able to just run 1 cat5 cable down behind them and control all 16 that way.

Here is the video to show you the 16 mini trees Im converting. Next will be pixel control of the spiral tree either from 16 strands of GE color effects or 16 strands of pixels from ray or maybe even the CCB if they come out...........

[johnm160]

Is there a dumb RGB strips for dummies some place?
Most of what I own right now is white incan minis. I am wondering if these are an cost saving option for me on some of the elements of the display before I go hog wild buying lights.

[DCHMRT]

Thank you all for your responses! They have been both helpful and eye opening!!! I am still on the edge about whether to invest in LED strands or go RGB ribbons.

Part of me is saying go RGB because in the long run the mounting will be easier and will provide more options in the future. However as pointed out it might be easier to learn the ropes with several strands before jumping into RGB...

I will keep you all posted as to what I end up doing and keep the suggestions going I really do appreciate them!

Thanks!!!

[beeiilll]

johnm160 wrote:

Is there a dumb RGB strips for dummies some place?
Most of what I own right now is white incan minis. I am wondering if these are an cost saving option for me on some of the elements of the display before I go hog wild buying lights.

Take a look over on the Australian Lighting Forum (link is in post #12).
That will give you info on the dumb as well as the intelligent strips and much more. A great place of starter and advanced information on the world of RGB out there.
Studying is the best thing before jumping for sure!