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Ok questions in RGB DMX that I can't seem to find any answer's to


bdeditch

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GaryMartin wrote:

bdeditch wrote:

It seems every Video I have watched they all use the Enttec and the $6 DMX Modules. I have not seen one video on how the CMB16D is set up and shown in action, that is what I need to convince myself that would be the way to go.


Here's a 16 chan DC controller running LED floods.  The snowmen in front have the floods in them:




Thanks Gary but what type of video I would love to see is like the ones showing how you set up the controller.
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Ahh, it's really very simple.

Channel one on the DC controller is the Red section of the first flood.

Channel two is the Green, Channel three is the Blue and Channel 4 is the White as these are RGB+W floods.


So the first flood takes up channels 1-4, 2nd flood 5-8 and so on. Four floods per DC controller.

In LOR I built one RGB channel that uses those plus an additional channel for the white filler.

I use Cat5 wire to run from the DC controllers to the floods, one pair for each color.

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jonnyci wrote:

Try these videos





I've watched those before, that where I was getting my initial plan on how I wanted to do things.
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Ken Benedict wrote:

OK, if you're going for maximum channels, then look into this 96 channel RGB LED driver board: http://www.usledsupply.com/shop/rgb-32-spi-dmx-decoder.html

it takes this DMX decoder to run it: http://www.usledsupply.com/shop/rgb-dmx-spi-decoder.html

Now you're gonna have to do your math homework; the 96 channel decoder maxes out at 300ma per channel. Your 5 meter strip consumes 3 amps or 3000ma per strip, which would overload this driver unless you shortened your strip to about 2 meters.

The 27 channel decoder maxes out at 1000ma per channel (1 amp). It can drive your 5 meter strips, but will quickly max out the total board capacity, which is rated at 15 amps. An evenly distributed load would only give you 555ma per channel, not enough for your 5 meter strips. So this would only give you enough power for 5 of your 5 meter strips, leaving 12 channels unused and unavailable for anything else. So 5 strips for about $50.

This 9 channel decoder can handle up to 10 amps per channel or 15 amps for the entire board, whichever comes first: http://www.ebay.com/itm/270867562737?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

It can control 9 of your 5 meter strips in three groups of three each, if that's what you're loooking for. Or, if you're wanting to control individual strips, it could easily handle 3 strips at a cost of about $45.

There's also a 120 channel DMX LED controller out there, but the channel capacity is reduced to about 100ma per channel. That's about 1-3 individual LEDs. There's also 3 channel controllers out that can handle 10 amps per channel for about $8 each (or $8 per strip). And the one at Holidaycoro.com is about 1 amp per channel or 3 amps per module, which is enough for one 5 meter strip (for about $4-$6 per strip).

The LOR DC controller can handle up to 4 amps per channel or 20 amps per bank of 8 channels. Total board capacity is 40 amps, which would take two power supplies to power it. If your load was evenly distributed, the LOR DC board would allow 2.5 amps per channel, which is plenty for driving 5 of your 5 meter RGB strips. So you could get 5 strips powered for about $100. The advantage of this LOR board is that it can be run from either a LOR network or a DMX signal. You don't hear much about it because it's so simple to use when you have LEDs to control; just plug them in and they work.

Your DMX network may require more thought; using CAT5 wire may work, but is unshielded and prone to interference. Putting a lot of DMX devices on the same line will degrade the signal so much that you might need a DMX distribution box (or several), which rebuilds the signal and sends it out to multiple devices. The LOR protocol runs at a slower speed and is more forgiving.


Generally, the LED driver chips, called MOSFETS, are usually downgraded in capacity as the channel count goes up.

If you're thinking about strips longer than 5 meters, you now have to think of voltage drop in the strip, and may have to "inject" more power every 10 meters or so, like others have found out (the 3rd strip had red looking like pink). And the "dumb" strips may need the control signal rebuilt after about 30 meters, requiring an RGB amplifier. The "smart" strips (the ones that have the little black chip every so often) rebuild the signal so it doesn't degrade. But the power does.


I have designed an RGB spinner with 72 LED channels, but with a shorter 20cm strip that consumes a low enough power draw so the 96 channel version is ideal for me. I already have it in hand for testing, as I also have the 9 channel version and the 27 channel is on order from Ray Wu (aliexpress.com). There's also an RGB LED snowflake in design now that will run from the LOR DC controller, giving me 5 RGB snowflakes per controller with plenty of capacity left over.

So this comes down to what YOU would like to have in your display; 5 meter strips, 10 meter strips, or shorter ones. Or some other combination. This same math also applies to some of the individual pixel nodes that are out there. Even the 6803 type strips (like the CCR) require power planning.

To paraphrase, you can have an RGB LED controller CHEAP, HIGH POWER or HIGH CHANNEL COUNT. Pick any TWO.

They all consume power to drive them with and you should plan for it so you can have a great display and put your great ideas to work.


Regarding total channel count; there are LOR displays running well over 3000 channels with one rumored to run at 8000 channels.
That's with AC controllers.

If you're looking for high channel counts for RGB LED strips and pixel nodes, look at the E681 board that can handle 64 channels at 1 amp per channel AND 64 amps per board (it can handle 16 of the "dumb" strips): http://sandevices.com/E681info.html

But it uses E1.31 protocol, which is not in LOR S3 YET (rumored to be in 2012). It can be part of an almost unlimited channel (pixel) count. There's places where over 600,000 channels are being used (but they are using Madrix software, not LOR).


Shoot for the stars and please keep us posted on your progress.


So the Ray Wu 27 Channel Easy DMX LED controller one might be something that could do the job, chances are I would need to get 2 of them if I want to use 10 strips. I think it will between that and the $6 DMX Controllers from HolidayCoro. I just wish I could find other info on it besides a picture of it. A spec sheet would be nice to see on Ray's site.
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zman wrote:

Ken Benedict wrote:
Don't forget the new CCBs (Cosmic Color Bulbs) planned for 2012; 100 seperate LED RGB C9s that can be individually addressed, like the CCRs.

AND the CCFs (Cosmic Color Floods) also planned for 2012.

More from the great folks at Light-O-Rama.



Bdeditch: I can understand your enthusiasm about large channels when I see projects like this 12,000 DMX channel RGB Mega tree: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hNorlgJcQs?version=3


I knew there would be a bunch more good input!

Ken the CCB's are not truly a C9. To set expectations, if you have not seen pictures of them, they are almost between a C7 and C9. When I saw them at Expo, I described them as Easter Eggs. The are shorter than a C9 and more fat than a C7. I was sort of disappointed with the size. So not sure if LOR plans to modify the final product in 2012.


I am happy we are all getting a lot of good information out of this. I do have my Enttec Pro and am going to hook it up to my computer I use for my show and hopefully by next August / September I have an idea what I am doing. That is the problem with this type of lighting, there are so many options to what a person can use and it gets a little over whelming after awhile trying to decide what will work for me. Hopefully at some of the get together s this year they will hold work shops on this.

Just one other question that I thought about does it matter what LOR Controller you have hooked up in order to program a sequence in DMX Universe e.g. does it have to be the last controller in your daisy chain of controllers?
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Ken Benedict wrote:

Don't forget the new CCBs (Cosmic Color Bulbs) planned for 2012; 100 seperate LED RGB C9s that can be individually addressed, like the CCRs.

AND the CCFs (Cosmic Color Floods) also planned for 2012.

More from the great folks at Light-O-Rama.



Bdeditch: I can understand your enthusiasm about large channels when I see projects like this 12,000 DMX channel RGB Mega tree: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hNorlgJcQs?version=3



Okay, now that was the most awesomeness mega tree I've ever seen! Hope to have something like that someday.
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Hey, I wanted to add something about your power supply. I spoke with an electrician and electrical engineer because I'm having to figure out how to use RGB LED strips as well, and they told me the most important limiter is #1 AC vs DC power outlet (so you don't need a converter), and #2 amps vs watts. This is important because most of your RGB LEDs use such low watts, that it really doesn't matter. Amps = Watts / Volts. So, say your RGB LEDs use 36watts / 12V, amps = 3. LoR controllers are usually 8amps max per channel, or 15 amps per 8 channels, so if you plan accordingly and not put all your high-power items on the same unit, power consumption can be easy.

It's a little more work, but not putting all your high-power items on the same controller will work out probably 80% of your power issues.

Hope this helps :)

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You might be confusing the DC vs AC controllers; it takes a DC controller to run the RGB LED strips and that controller maxes out at about 5 strips. That's one amp per channel using a 20 amp power supply to drive it with.

The 8 amps per channel is what the AC controller is rated at. But the AC controller cannot drive the DC LED strips.

You are correct with the 3 amps per strip figure, which works out to 1 amp for red, 1 amp for green and 1 amp for blue.

That's easily handled by the LOR DC controller. Just needs a 12vdc power supply and a weatherproof case.

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Ken Benedict wrote:

You might be confusing the DC vs AC controllers; it takes a DC controller to run the RGB LED strips and that controller maxes out at about 5 strips. That's one amp per channel using a 20 amp power supply to drive it with.

The 8 amps per channel is what the AC controller is rated at. But the AC controller cannot drive the DC LED strips.

You are correct with the 3 amps per strip figure, which works out to 1 amp for red, 1 amp for green and 1 amp for blue.

That's easily handled by the LOR DC controller. Just needs a 12vdc power supply and a weatherproof case.


I was curious. I'm switching over from incandescents to CCR for roof and RGB LEDs to line the vertical sides of my house and wondered what controller is best for the RGB LED in your opinion? I obviously want to be able to have the different color options when I sequence, but can't seem to find/decide on a good controller.

What do you think ?
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CCRs for the roof are a good decision, but they would have to be facing the audience for best effect.
An alternative would be the new CCBs when they come out from LOR. There's more detail in other forums, but basically it's a fat C7 (maybe it should be called a C8) that comes in either a 50 light string with a single controller or a 100 light string with a single controller.

These CCBs could be seen easily, but the bulb spacing is 6-8 inches, I think. If you want tighter grouping, then go with a CCR.


For the sides of the house, you might want to consider a 5 meter RGB strip (about $42 on Ebay) either attached to your house or a wooden furring strip (a 1x2x8'). You can drive five of these with a LOC DC controller and a 20 amp power supply. There's more connection details in other forums too.

If you have a light colored house, you might want to consider using the same type of LED strips, but pointed backwards towards your house. You may have to move these led strips away from your house a bit, maybe to the edge of the roof line. This would give you a great way to wash your walls with color. Space these out according to your pocketbook. You can always add more in future shows.

The LED strips should be weatherproof (sometimes called IP-65 or IP-68) and the controller and power supply should be in a weatherproof box also and as close as you can get them to the actual strips. You will also need a weatherproof box for the CCR controller and power supply; do a search and see all the different ways that others have solved this.

I use a type 3R electrical enclosure, 8x8x4, attach a metal strip on the back that is taller than the box. At the top of the metal strip are some holes I use to screw into the roof overhang. You can also get a clamp to do the same thing.

Let me know if you need links to any of the above.

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If your doing a basic RGB, 3 channel, as stated earlier the LOR DC board will do 5 RGB sets based on 30 5050 leds per meter or 150 5050 LEDs. And you can stay with LOR protocal 100%

Or use LOR DMX control and DMX modules, I am using a 27 channel DMX from Ray Wu, but I am only using 60 5050 LEDs, on each channel.

There is also a DMX 24 and 48 channel DC board offered thru the Ausie site.

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