bdeditch Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 Ok I am a Newbie when it comes to RGB Light Strips. I have some questions that either I am missing the answer or I just can’t find it anywhere I look. I am running 6 LOR controllers the first 4 are the LOR LOR1602W and the last 2, units 5 & 6 , are the CTB16PC. I am using LOR S3 for my software. I really want to get into the RGB Strips. I have purchased a sample package from HolidayCoro to try out after my light show is over for the season, just in case something happens. I have purchased as well a couple of sample RGB strips from China with a power supply. This is what I have purchased from China:1 - LED 5050 RGB Strips,36W, 150 LED,5m/roll, DC 12V,yellow FPC,silicone tube waterproof IP651- LED 5050 RGB Strips,72W, 300 LED,5m/roll, DC 12V,yellow FPC,dripping adhesive waterproof IP651 -Waterproof Power Supply 120W, Input Voltage 110V/220V AC,output DC 12V,10A,I also have on hand an Enttec Pro, not open, since I know that it is supported by LOR. I have one $6 DMX Module that came with the sample pack from Dave Moore at HolidayCoro, with channel 1 set.OK here are my questions that I hoped cane be answered1) How far from the DMX Module can I transfer the signal to the Light Strip? E.G. if I have the module mounted inside a building, how far can I run Cat5E cabled to the before I start losing the signal to the strip. Also is there a minimum from the computer to the DMX Module that a Cat5E cable can be run?2) Using the HolidayCoro USB to Cat5E cable, from Computer, has lines 1 & 2 used to try his sample pack, LOR uses 4 & 5. I have the instructions to make the X/O to change the lines, but would I be better off making or buying a proper one so I don’t need the X/O . What I mean is buying another RJ45 Serial Adapter and not use the cable from HolidayCoro?3) Is a terminator required and the end on the run. If I am daisy chaining about 10 strips, should I terminate at the end of the last strip? I seen instructions for making one using a 5 pin plug, is there another way if I am just using Cat5E plugs?4) Is there an advantage to having the $6 DMX Module already being assigned channel 1? Is this going to cause problems if I am running about 10 of these?5) Can you use phone line to transfer the signal from the DMX Module to the Light Strip?6) Would I be better off just getting rid of the Enttec, buying the LOR CMB16D-QC? Am I limited to how many strips I can run off the LOR CMB16D-QC compared to the Enttec? Also does the CMB16D-QC just plug into the last controller like setting up the other controllers?7) How do you figure out the Max watts a light strip will use, does white use the highest wattage?I know there is a lot of questions, but I want to be sure I am doing things right, and not having a lot of problems later.
zman Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 Here is some input belowbdeditch wrote: Ok I am a Newbie when it comes to RGB Light Strips. I have some questions that either I am missing the answer or I just can’t find it anywhere I look. I am running 6 LOR controllers the first 4 are the LOR LOR1602W and the last 2, units 5 & 6 , are the CTB16PC. I am using LOR S3 for my software. I really want to get into the RGB Strips. I have purchased a sample package from HolidayCoro to try out after my light show is over for the season, just in case something happens. I have purchased as well a couple of sample RGB strips from China with a power supply. This is what I have purchased from China:1 - LED 5050 RGB Strips,36W, 150 LED,5m/roll, DC 12V,yellow FPC,silicone tube waterproof IP651- LED 5050 RGB Strips,72W, 300 LED,5m/roll, DC 12V,yellow FPC,dripping adhesive waterproof IP651 -Waterproof Power Supply 120W, Input Voltage 110V/220V AC,output DC 12V,10A,I also have on hand an Enttec Pro, not open, since I know that it is supported by LOR. I have one $6 DMX Module that came with the sample pack from Dave Moore at HolidayCoro, with channel 1 set.OK here are my questions that I hoped cane be answered1) How far from the DMX Module can I transfer the signal to the Light Strip? E.G. if I have the module mounted inside a building, how far can I run Cat5E cabled to the before I start losing the signal to the strip. Also is there a minimum from the computer to the DMX Module that a Cat5E cable can be run?If only pure DMX signal is run in your Cat5e, you have approx 4000 total feet of line that DMX supports. If you are injecting voltage in the same cable, this is where you need to be concerned. This I can't answer.2) Using the HolidayCoro USB to Cat5E cable, from Computer, has lines 1 & 2 used to try his sample pack, LOR uses 4 & 5. I have the instructions to make the X/O to change the lines, but would I be better off making or buying a proper one so I don’t need the X/O . What I mean is buying another RJ45 Serial Adapter and not use the cable from HolidayCoro?Just make the cross over. You will only need one. Mark it so you know which one it is.3) Is a terminator required and the end on the run. If I am daisy chaining about 10 strips, should I terminate at the end of the last strip? I seen instructions for making one using a 5 pin plug, is there another way if I am just using Cat5E plugs?In theory yes you should, so that you don't get reflections causing false triggers. However, on my RGB ball DMX branches this year, I did not terminate at the end of the runs and I had no problems. If Problems start to happen, this is the first point to troubleshoot.4) Is there an advantage to having the $6 DMX Module already being assigned channel 1? Is this going to cause problems if I am running about 10 of these?You need to uniquely identify all your DMX modules and keep a list of what they are. Example, Module 1 = ID 1 Module 2 = ID 4, Module 3 = ID 7. Remember each Module controls 3 channels. You can't leave them all assigned ID 1. By default, I believe the come ID'd as 1.5) Can you use phone line to transfer the signal from the DMX Module to the Light Strip?I have not tried. I am not sure what the voltage rating is on Phone cable versus Cat5E.6) Would I be better off just getting rid of the Enttec, buying the LOR CMB16D-QC? Am I limited to how many strips I can run off the LOR CMB16D-QC compared to the Enttec? Also does the CMB16D-QC just plug into the last controller like setting up the other controllers?One DMX Dongle, Enttec or otherwise controls one DMX Universe of 512 channels. The DC controller above only controls 16 channels. If you only wanted to do color changed to the entire strip, you could contol 5 strips total figuring the R-G-B control per strip. No knowing what you are hoping to accompish, either way could work, DMX provides more options and control in the long run. You will need to know what your voltage requirements are for the RGB products you bought7) How do you figure out the Max watts a light strip will use, does white use the highest wattage?The specs of voltage per meter or some other value should have been provided by the vendor. You need to know this to calculate your voltage needs.I know there is a lot of questions, but I want to be sure I am doing things right, and not having a lot of problems later. Maybe others can provide some added info.
bdeditch Posted December 30, 2011 Author Posted December 30, 2011 zman wrote: Here is some input belowbdeditch wrote: Ok I am a Newbie when it comes to RGB Light Strips. I have some questions that either I am missing the answer or I just can’t find it anywhere I look. I am running 6 LOR controllers the first 4 are the LOR LOR1602W and the last 2, units 5 & 6 , are the CTB16PC. I am using LOR S3 for my software. I really want to get into the RGB Strips. I have purchased a sample package from HolidayCoro to try out after my light show is over for the season, just in case something happens. I have purchased as well a couple of sample RGB strips from China with a power supply. This is what I have purchased from China:1 - LED 5050 RGB Strips,36W, 150 LED,5m/roll, DC 12V,yellow FPC,silicone tube waterproof IP651- LED 5050 RGB Strips,72W, 300 LED,5m/roll, DC 12V,yellow FPC,dripping adhesive waterproof IP651 -Waterproof Power Supply 120W, Input Voltage 110V/220V AC,output DC 12V,10A,I also have on hand an Enttec Pro, not open, since I know that it is supported by LOR. I have one $6 DMX Module that came with the sample pack from Dave Moore at HolidayCoro, with channel 1 set.OK here are my questions that I hoped cane be answered1) How far from the DMX Module can I transfer the signal to the Light Strip? E.G. if I have the module mounted inside a building, how far can I run Cat5E cabled to the before I start losing the signal to the strip. Also is there a minimum from the computer to the DMX Module that a Cat5E cable can be run?If only pure DMX signal is run in your Cat5e, you have approx 4000 total feet of line that DMX supports. If you are injecting voltage in the same cable, this is where you need to be concerned. This I can't answer.2) Using the HolidayCoro USB to Cat5E cable, from Computer, has lines 1 & 2 used to try his sample pack, LOR uses 4 & 5. I have the instructions to make the X/O to change the lines, but would I be better off making or buying a proper one so I don’t need the X/O . What I mean is buying another RJ45 Serial Adapter and not use the cable from HolidayCoro?Just make the cross over. You will only need one. Mark it so you know which one it is.3) Is a terminator required and the end on the run. If I am daisy chaining about 10 strips, should I terminate at the end of the last strip? I seen instructions for making one using a 5 pin plug, is there another way if I am just using Cat5E plugs?In theory yes you should, so that you don't get reflections causing false triggers. However, on my RGB ball DMX branches this year, I did not terminate at the end of the runs and I had no problems. If Problems start to happen, this is the first point to troubleshoot.4) Is there an advantage to having the $6 DMX Module already being assigned channel 1? Is this going to cause problems if I am running about 10 of these?You need to uniquely identify all your DMX modules and keep a list of what they are. Example, Module 1 = ID 1 Module 2 = ID 4, Module 3 = ID 7. Remember each Module controls 3 channels. You can't leave them all assigned ID 1. By default, I believe the come ID'd as 1.5) Can you use phone line to transfer the signal from the DMX Module to the Light Strip?I have not tried. I am not sure what the voltage rating is on Phone cable versus Cat5E.6) Would I be better off just getting rid of the Enttec, buying the LOR CMB16D-QC? Am I limited to how many strips I can run off the LOR CMB16D-QC compared to the Enttec? Also does the CMB16D-QC just plug into the last controller like setting up the other controllers?One DMX Dongle, Enttec or otherwise controls one DMX Universe of 512 channels. The DC controller above only controls 16 channels. If you only wanted to do color changed to the entire strip, you could contol 5 strips total figuring the R-G-B control per strip. No knowing what you are hoping to accompish, either way could work, DMX provides more options and control in the long run. You will need to know what your voltage requirements are for the RGB products you bought7) How do you figure out the Max watts a light strip will use, does white use the highest wattage?The specs of voltage per meter or some other value should have been provided by the vendor. You need to know this to calculate your voltage needs.I know there is a lot of questions, but I want to be sure I am doing things right, and not having a lot of problems later. Maybe others can provide some added info.OK so I am better off staying with what I have for now. I would eventually like to be able to control individual lights on the string, but right now just the whole string.
-klb- Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 Individual pixel control requires different ribbons and controllers, than controlling the ribbon as one RBG trio.Termination goes on the DMX cabling, not the ribbons. (way the question/answer is worded looks a little ambiguous)Distance between the USB-> ribbon controllers on cat 5 will depend on how much brightness you are willing to loose, and how long your ribbons are. When you get to pixel ribbons, those have to stay pretty short, say 5 feet.Between the ribbon controller, and the ribbon, phone cord should be fine. For voltage ratings on phone cord, a live phone cord has 48VDC on it, and about 90VAC when it is ringing.. So it is good for pretty much any low voltage DC uses, but even though the ringer voltage is so high, that is in a current limited system, so I would not use it for 110V..
bdeditch Posted December 30, 2011 Author Posted December 30, 2011 -klb- wrote: Individual pixel control requires different ribbons and controllers, than controlling the ribbon as one RBG trio.That is something in the future I would like to do, for now I am just going to learn the basic one with.Termination goes on the DMX cabling, not the ribbons. (way the question/answer is worded looks a little ambiguous)I assumed that it would only be on the cable, I miss worded it, I meant to say the end of the last cable. I guess I would be better off just making a female Cat 5 Connection and install the resistor on it.Distance between the USB-> ribbon controllers on cat 5 will depend on how much brightness you are willing to loose, and how long your ribbons are. When you get to pixel ribbons, those have to stay pretty short, say 5 feet.Between the ribbon controller, and the ribbon, phone cord should be fine. For voltage ratings on phone cord, a live phone cord has 48VDC on it, and about 90VAC when it is ringing.. So it is good for pretty much any low voltage DC uses, but even though the ringer voltage is so high, that is in a current limited system, so I would not use it for 110V.. I kind of figured the phone cord would do the trick, just wanted to see if someone has done this. If I am going to run power thru the cable I was planning on Cat 5.
edvas69 Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 I have already answerd these questions over at ACL so ive just copied and pated my response here.Quote from: bdeditch on Today at 03:18:33First off Happy New Years!!Ok I am a Newbie when it comes to RGB Light Strips. I have some questions that either I am missing the answer or I just can’t find it anywhere I look. I am running 6 LOR controllers the first 4 are the LOR LOR1602W and the last 2, units 5 & 6 , are the CTB16PC. I am using LOR S3 for my software. I really want to get into the RGB Strips. I have purchased a sample package from HolidayCoro to try out after my light show is over for the season, just in case something happens. I have purchased as well a couple of sample RGB strips from China with a power supply. This is what I have purchased from China:1 - LED 5050 RGB Strips,36W, 150 LED,5m/roll, DC 12V,yellow FPC,silicone tube waterproof IP651- LED 5050 RGB Strips,72W, 300 LED,5m/roll, DC 12V,yellow FPC,dripping adhesive waterproof IP651 -Waterproof Power Supply 120W, Input Voltage 110V/220V AC,output DC 12V,10A,I also have on hand an Enttec Pro, not open, since I know that it is supported by LOR. I have one $6 DMX Module that came with the sample pack from Dave Moore at HolidayCoro, with channel 1 set.OK here are my questions that I hoped cane be answeredIt appears from reading the questions below that you may be confused. The DMX enttec dongle is not a controller but is instead a protocol bridge which converts the signal from the computer to the DMX signal for the controllers to understand. Its the DC controllers themselves that connect to the strip not the enttec pro dongle.Quote from: bdeditch on Today at 03:18:331) How far from the DMX Module can I transfer the signal to the Light Strip? E.G. if I have the module mounted inside a building, how far can I run Cat5E cabled to the before I start losing the signal to the strip. Also is there a minimum from the computer to the DMX Module that a Cat5E cable can be run?the standard says aprrox 4000 feet, so this shouldnt be a concern for you. Quote from: bdeditch on Today at 03:18:332) Using the HolidayCoro USB to Cat5E cable, from Computer, has lines 1 & 2 used to try his sample pack, LOR uses 4 & 5. I have the instructions to make the X/O to change the lines, but would I be better off making or buying a proper one so I don’t need the X/O . What I mean is buying another RJ45 Serial Adapter and not use the cable from HolidayCoro?Its easy to make an adaptor by cutting the cable and rejoining it but i wonder why you need DMX if you are planning on using LOR controllers and S3 softwareQuote from: bdeditch on Today at 03:18:333) Is a terminator required and the end on the run. If I am daisy chaining about 10 strips, should I terminate at the end of the last strip? I seen instructions for making one using a 5 pin plug, is there another way if I am just using Cat5E plugs?I think this is where you get confused, using cat 5 for your power cables will allow for approx 1 amp per core max and isnt the best choice. I prefer to use 4 core security cable to drive my dumb strip from my controller as its rating is 4 amps.Terminating is for the DMX signal and not for the strips, and with LOR controllers you dont have to terminate the DMX signal.Quote from: bdeditch on Today at 03:18:334) Is there an advantage to having the $6 DMX Module already being assigned channel 1? Is this going to cause problems if I am running about 10 of these?if you run 10 of these set for channel 1 and in the same DMX universe then they will all do the same thing as they are all the same start address.Quote from: bdeditch on Today at 03:18:335) Can you use phone line to transfer the signal from the DMX Module to the Light Strip?Again this comment doesnt make sense as it implies that you use the enttec as a controller output for the strips. For this you need a DC controller. The enttec pro only converts the data to DMX. You could use phone wire from the controller to your strip but you would only be able to draw 1 amp total from the cable which equates to approx 1 metre of stripQuote from: bdeditch on Today at 03:18:336) Would I be better off just getting rid of the Enttec, buying the LOR CMB16D-QC? Am I limited to how many strips I can run off the LOR CMB16D-QC compared to the Enttec? Also does the CMB16D-QC just plug into the last controller like setting up the other controllers?The LOR CMB16D-QC is a DC controller and a DC controller is required to run the dumb strip. You connect the DC controller to the enttec pro dongle and can run the LOR controller in DMX mode.The question is that to run RGB lights you can just use the LOR dongle, S3 software and a CMB16D-QC to run the dumb strip. The enttec pro is really only needed for DMX controllers, so why do you require a enttec pro dongle, do you have DMX controllers you want to use instead of LOR controllers.Quote from: bdeditch on Today at 03:18:337) How do you figure out the Max watts a light strip will use, does white use the highest wattage?The 30 LED/M 12vdc strip draws approx 0.2 amps per metre per colour, this equates to 1 amp per colour or 3 amps total for a 5 metre strip when showing white.White draws the most current as this is made up of red, green and blue LEDS being on at 100%. Most other colours are made up of a combination of just 2 colours.I know there is a lot of questions, but I want to be sure I am doing things right, and not having a lot of problems later.It appears that you may be a bit confused about how it goes together so I wouldnt rush out and get anything or else risk getting something you cant use. Read and ask questions to understand.You may want to refer to this thread http://auschristmaslighting.com/forums/index.php/topic,1211.0.html
bdeditch Posted December 30, 2011 Author Posted December 30, 2011 edvas69 wrote: I have already answerd these questions over at ACL so ive just copied and pated my response here.Quote from: bdeditch on Today at 03:18:33First off Happy New Years!!Ok I am a Newbie when it comes to RGB Light Strips. I have some questions that either I am missing the answer or I just can’t find it anywhere I look. I am running 6 LOR controllers the first 4 are the LOR LOR1602W and the last 2, units 5 & 6 , are the CTB16PC. I am using LOR S3 for my software. I really want to get into the RGB Strips. I have purchased a sample package from HolidayCoro to try out after my light show is over for the season, just in case something happens. I have purchased as well a couple of sample RGB strips from China with a power supply. This is what I have purchased from China:1 - LED 5050 RGB Strips,36W, 150 LED,5m/roll, DC 12V,yellow FPC,silicone tube waterproof IP651- LED 5050 RGB Strips,72W, 300 LED,5m/roll, DC 12V,yellow FPC,dripping adhesive waterproof IP651 -Waterproof Power Supply 120W, Input Voltage 110V/220V AC,output DC 12V,10A,I also have on hand an Enttec Pro, not open, since I know that it is supported by LOR. I have one $6 DMX Module that came with the sample pack from Dave Moore at HolidayCoro, with channel 1 set.OK here are my questions that I hoped cane be answeredIt appears from reading the questions below that you may be confused. The DMX enttec dongle is not a controller but is instead a protocol bridge which converts the signal from the computer to the DMX signal for the controllers to understand. Its the DC controllers themselves that connect to the strip not the enttec pro dongle.Quote from: bdeditch on Today at 03:18:331) How far from the DMX Module can I transfer the signal to the Light Strip? E.G. if I have the module mounted inside a building, how far can I run Cat5E cabled to the before I start losing the signal to the strip. Also is there a minimum from the computer to the DMX Module that a Cat5E cable can be run?the standard says aprrox 4000 feet, so this shouldnt be a concern for you. Quote from: bdeditch on Today at 03:18:332) Using the HolidayCoro USB to Cat5E cable, from Computer, has lines 1 & 2 used to try his sample pack, LOR uses 4 & 5. I have the instructions to make the X/O to change the lines, but would I be better off making or buying a proper one so I don’t need the X/O . What I mean is buying another RJ45 Serial Adapter and not use the cable from HolidayCoro?Its easy to make an adaptor by cutting the cable and rejoining it but i wonder why you need DMX if you are planning on using LOR controllers and S3 softwareQuote from: bdeditch on Today at 03:18:333) Is a terminator required and the end on the run. If I am daisy chaining about 10 strips, should I terminate at the end of the last strip? I seen instructions for making one using a 5 pin plug, is there another way if I am just using Cat5E plugs?I think this is where you get confused, using cat 5 for your power cables will allow for approx 1 amp per core max and isnt the best choice. I prefer to use 4 core security cable to drive my dumb strip from my controller as its rating is 4 amps.Terminating is for the DMX signal and not for the strips, and with LOR controllers you dont have to terminate the DMX signal.Quote from: bdeditch on Today at 03:18:334) Is there an advantage to having the $6 DMX Module already being assigned channel 1? Is this going to cause problems if I am running about 10 of these?if you run 10 of these set for channel 1 and in the same DMX universe then they will all do the same thing as they are all the same start address.Quote from: bdeditch on Today at 03:18:335) Can you use phone line to transfer the signal from the DMX Module to the Light Strip?Again this comment doesnt make sense as it implies that you use the enttec as a controller output for the strips. For this you need a DC controller. The enttec pro only converts the data to DMX. You could use phone wire from the controller to your strip but you would only be able to draw 1 amp total from the cable which equates to approx 1 metre of stripQuote from: bdeditch on Today at 03:18:336) Would I be better off just getting rid of the Enttec, buying the LOR CMB16D-QC? Am I limited to how many strips I can run off the LOR CMB16D-QC compared to the Enttec? Also does the CMB16D-QC just plug into the last controller like setting up the other controllers?The LOR CMB16D-QC is a DC controller and a DC controller is required to run the dumb strip. You connect the DC controller to the enttec pro dongle and can run the LOR controller in DMX mode.The question is that to run RGB lights you can just use the LOR dongle, S3 software and a CMB16D-QC to run the dumb strip. The enttec pro is really only needed for DMX controllers, so why do you require a enttec pro dongle, do you have DMX controllers you want to use instead of LOR controllers.Quote from: bdeditch on Today at 03:18:337) How do you figure out the Max watts a light strip will use, does white use the highest wattage?The 30 LED/M 12vdc strip draws approx 0.2 amps per metre per colour, this equates to 1 amp per colour or 3 amps total for a 5 metre strip when showing white.White draws the most current as this is made up of red, green and blue LEDS being on at 100%. Most other colours are made up of a combination of just 2 colours.I know there is a lot of questions, but I want to be sure I am doing things right, and not having a lot of problems later.It appears that you may be a bit confused about how it goes together so I wouldnt rush out and get anything or else risk getting something you cant use. Read and ask questions to understand.You may want to refer to this thread http://auschristmaslighting.com/forums/index.php/topic,1211.0.html What I want to do is use the DMX Controllers
bfrd22 Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 Running dumb strips, and a DMX controller, each of the controller will have to be numbered, Unit 1 will be channels 1,2,3 the next unit will have to be number 4 and control 4,5,6 next is 7 for channels 7,8,9 etc.If i guess right the dmx decoder your using is a sealed unit, so you will need to purchase dmx endcoder specific to the module you are using.You can use your usb enttec encoder, and set it up in lor on a seperate network, and select the dmx encodor in the drop down, there is a section on the Aussie site, For LOR DMX. there are some videos there that show how to do it using the RGB channels in S3. I believe they are just using a modified LOR output with native DMX that S3 can do. And really for 50 to 100 channels I would think that the native LOR DMX would work quite well.I am doing similar, with 18 RGB 5050 dumb ribbons, 2 dmx 27 channel controllers, and 2 350 watt power supplies. I will be running these straight from LOR S3 with a native DMX universe on a seperate network in LOR.This will allow me to use my normal controllers on LOR with LOR's codec and the RGB dummies with LOR DMXHope this didnt make things worse but I have been all over the map on the and read and watched a lot of stuff over the last couple months.But really head over to the Aussie site and sign up, these guys are way ahead of us with Basic RGB and RGB Pixel control.Andy
Ken Benedict Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 Questions 1 and 5: The 4000 foot specification does NOT apply here. The Cat5 cable is NOT being used as a true Cat5 cable; it's only being used as a 12vdc supply cable and -klb- is right, keeping that distance very short or you wil lose significant voltage to the strips. At 4000 feet, you'll be lucky to power a single led all by itself.Same with regular phone wire; yes it will work and yes keep it short. True network cables uses differential line drivers that can go the distance. You're not using it that way, as you pose in Questions 1 and 5. I assume you choose Cat5 cable because it's easily available. So is a spool of speaker wire, intercom wire or trailer lighting wire.Question 6: You will need the LOR DC controller if you use the Enttec, but at that point, why not just use the LOR network that's built in?Seems you are focused on a DMX solution, but you may find life easier keeping with the LOR protocol all the way through. Get the LOR CMB16D-QC, box it up with a power supply in a weatherproof box and drive five RGB strips. Mount it as close as you can to the ribbons and PRESTO, you have a show.You wouldn't need the Enttec, the little white DMX modules or crossover cables. It's a no-brainer, in my mind. It already works in many displays across the country. Tough to knock success.
bdeditch Posted December 30, 2011 Author Posted December 30, 2011 Ken Benedict wrote:Questions 1 and 5: The 4000 foot specification does NOT apply here. The Cat5 cable is NOT being used as a true Cat5 cable; it's only being used as a 12vdc supply cable and -klb- is right, keeping that distance very short or you wil lose significant voltage to the strips. At 4000 feet, you'll be lucky to power a single led all by itself.Same with regular phone wire; yes it will work and yes keep it short. True network cables uses differential line drivers that can go the distance. You're not using it that way, as you pose in Questions 1 and 5. I assume you choose Cat5 cable because it's easily available. So is a spool of speaker wire, intercom wire or trailer lighting wire.Question 6: You will need the LOR DC controller if you use the Enttec, but at that point, why not just use the LOR network that's built in?Seems you are focused on a DMX solution, but you may find life easier keeping with the LOR protocol all the way through. Get the LOR CMB16D-QC, box it up with a power supply in a weatherproof box and drive five RGB strips. Mount it as close as you can to the ribbons and PRESTO, you have a show.You wouldn't need the Enttec, the little white DMX modules or crossover cables. It's a no-brainer, in my mind. It already works in many displays across the country. Tough to knock success.I want to use the DMX so I am not limited to how many channels I will have. I want to be able to do more than just have all the strings do the same thing at the same time. It seems every Video I have watched they all use the Enttec and the $6 DMX Modules. I have not seen one video on how the CMB16D is set up and shown in action, that is what I need to convince myself that would be the way to go.Actually I was just going to use the cat5 for the signal not the power, but that could change as well.
bdeditch Posted December 30, 2011 Author Posted December 30, 2011 bfrd22 wrote:Running dumb strips, and a DMX controller, each of the controller will have to be numbered, Unit 1 will be channels 1,2,3 the next unit will have to be number 4 and control 4,5,6 next is 7 for channels 7,8,9 etc.If i guess right the dmx decoder your using is a sealed unit, so you will need to purchase dmx endcoder specific to the module you are using.You can use your usb enttec encoder, and set it up in lor on a seperate network, and select the dmx encodor in the drop down, there is a section on the Aussie site, For LOR DMX. there are some videos there that show how to do it using the RGB channels in S3. I believe they are just using a modified LOR output with native DMX that S3 can do. And really for 50 to 100 channels I would think that the native LOR DMX would work quite well.I am doing similar, with 18 RGB 5050 dumb ribbons, 2 dmx 27 channel controllers, and 2 350 watt power supplies. I will be running these straight from LOR S3 with a native DMX universe on a seperate network in LOR.This will allow me to use my normal controllers on LOR with LOR's codec and the RGB dummies with LOR DMXHope this didnt make things worse but I have been all over the map on the and read and watched a lot of stuff over the last couple months.But really head over to the Aussie site and sign up, these guys are way ahead of us with Basic RGB and RGB Pixel control.AndyI have already joined there site a while back. And don't worry you did not confuse me, its to late for that LOL. Do you have any info on your 27 channel controllers?The software that Dave Moore (HolidayCoro) has also can encode those DMX Modules.
bfrd22 Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 It's the same one Dave shows in the 1st video.This is the stuff I just ordered from Ray, He has been very helpful and we got to this in the end. Believe me I was all over the map. The little white DMX uints with power for each strip, then 1804 pixels and controllers (pixel control gave me a headache). Then LOR DC control keep it simple, but I would need 4 boards to do what I wanted. So this is where we finalized this at. I will be using the native DMX that S3 has as stated earlier.18 RGB 50/50 module stringshttp://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/423204013-promotion-5050-SMD-RGB-LED-module-DC12V-input-waterproof-20pcs-a-string-wholesalers.html2 DMX DC 27 channel control boardshttp://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/701799/209915969-378111925/Easy-DMX-LED-controller-dmx-decoder-driver.html2 350 watt power supplieshttp://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/701799/209855560-289599951/350W-Dual-Output-Switching-Power-Supply-88-264VAC-input-12V-350W-output-CE-and-ROHS-approved.html
bdeditch Posted December 30, 2011 Author Posted December 30, 2011 bfrd22 wrote:It's the same one Dave shows in the 1st video.This is the stuff I just ordered from Ray18 RGB 50/50 module stringshttp://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/423204013-promotion-5050-SMD-RGB-LED-module-DC12V-input-waterproof-20pcs-a-string-wholesalers.html2 DMX DC 27 channel control boardshttp://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/701799/209915969-378111925/Easy-DMX-LED-controller-dmx-decoder-driver.html2 350 watt power supplieshttp://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/701799/209855560-289599951/350W-Dual-Output-Switching-Power-Supply-88-264VAC-input-12V-350W-output-CE-and-ROHS-approved.htmlI like those controllers, are they easy to use?
bfrd22 Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 I"ll know in Feb when I get a chance to start playing, with it but seems pretty idiot proof, and I can use the RGB groupings in lor to run each string.Dave's video on the board. http://vimeo.com/18939508
Ken Benedict Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 OK, if you're going for maximum channels, then look into this 96 channel RGB LED driver board: http://www.usledsupply.com/shop/rgb-32-spi-dmx-decoder.htmlit takes this DMX decoder to run it: http://www.usledsupply.com/shop/rgb-dmx-spi-decoder.htmlNow you're gonna have to do your math homework; the 96 channel decoder maxes out at 300ma per channel. Your 5 meter strip consumes 3 amps or 3000ma per strip, which would overload this driver unless you shortened your strip to about 2 meters.The 27 channel decoder maxes out at 1000ma per channel (1 amp). It can drive your 5 meter strips, but will quickly max out the total board capacity, which is rated at 15 amps. An evenly distributed load would only give you 555ma per channel, not enough for your 5 meter strips. So this would only give you enough power for 5 of your 5 meter strips, leaving 12 channels unused and unavailable for anything else. So 5 strips for about $50.This 9 channel decoder can handle up to 10 amps per channel or 15 amps for the entire board, whichever comes first: http://www.ebay.com/itm/270867562737?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649It can control 9 of your 5 meter strips in three groups of three each, if that's what you're loooking for. Or, if you're wanting to control individual strips, it could easily handle 3 strips at a cost of about $45.There's also a 120 channel DMX LED controller out there, but the channel capacity is reduced to about 100ma per channel. That's about 1-3 individual LEDs. There's also 3 channel controllers out that can handle 10 amps per channel for about $8 each (or $8 per strip). And the one at Holidaycoro.com is about 1 amp per channel or 3 amps per module, which is enough for one 5 meter strip (for about $4-$6 per strip).The LOR DC controller can handle up to 4 amps per channel or 20 amps per bank of 8 channels. Total board capacity is 40 amps, which would take two power supplies to power it. If your load was evenly distributed, the LOR DC board would allow 2.5 amps per channel, which is plenty for driving 5 of your 5 meter RGB strips. So you could get 5 strips powered for about $100. The advantage of this LOR board is that it can be run from either a LOR network or a DMX signal. You don't hear much about it because it's so simple to use when you have LEDs to control; just plug them in and they work.Your DMX network may require more thought; using CAT5 wire may work, but is unshielded and prone to interference. Putting a lot of DMX devices on the same line will degrade the signal so much that you might need a DMX distribution box (or several), which rebuilds the signal and sends it out to multiple devices. The LOR protocol runs at a slower speed and is more forgiving.Generally, the LED driver chips, called MOSFETS, are usually downgraded in capacity as the channel count goes up.If you're thinking about strips longer than 5 meters, you now have to think of voltage drop in the strip, and may have to "inject" more power every 10 meters or so, like others have found out (the 3rd strip had red looking like pink). And the "dumb" strips may need the control signal rebuilt after about 30 meters, requiring an RGB amplifier. The "smart" strips (the ones that have the little black chip every so often) rebuild the signal so it doesn't degrade. But the power does.I have designed an RGB spinner with 72 LED channels, but with a shorter 20cm strip that consumes a low enough power draw so the 96 channel version is ideal for me. I already have it in hand for testing, as I also have the 9 channel version and the 27 channel is on order from Ray Wu (aliexpress.com). There's also an RGB LED snowflake in design now that will run from the LOR DC controller, giving me 5 RGB snowflakes per controller with plenty of capacity left over.So this comes down to what YOU would like to have in your display; 5 meter strips, 10 meter strips, or shorter ones. Or some other combination. This same math also applies to some of the individual pixel nodes that are out there. Even the 6803 type strips (like the CCR) require power planning.To paraphrase, you can have an RGB LED controller CHEAP, HIGH POWER or HIGH CHANNEL COUNT. Pick any TWO.They all consume power to drive them with and you should plan for it so you can have a great display and put your great ideas to work.Regarding total channel count; there are LOR displays running well over 3000 channels with one rumored to run at 8000 channels.That's with AC controllers.If you're looking for high channel counts for RGB LED strips and pixel nodes, look at the E681 board that can handle 64 channels at 1 amp per channel AND 64 amps per board (it can handle 16 of the "dumb" strips): http://sandevices.com/E681info.htmlBut it uses E1.31 protocol, which is not in LOR S3 YET (rumored to be in 2012). It can be part of an almost unlimited channel (pixel) count. There's places where over 600,000 channels are being used (but they are using Madrix software, not LOR).Shoot for the stars and please keep us posted on your progress.
Ken Benedict Posted December 31, 2011 Posted December 31, 2011 Don't forget the new CCBs (Cosmic Color Bulbs) planned for 2012; 100 seperate LED RGB C9s that can be individually addressed, like the CCRs.AND the CCFs (Cosmic Color Floods) also planned for 2012. More from the great folks at Light-O-Rama.Bdeditch: I can understand your enthusiasm about large channels when I see projects like this 12,000 DMX channel RGB Mega tree: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hNorlgJcQs?version=3
beeiilll Posted December 31, 2011 Posted December 31, 2011 Great information Ken.I am looking at getting into the RGB phase as well only because I think that 4 seperate strings of LEDs around each window and door is a real pain to put up and doesn't look too good!Your post #15 on the controllers and amps required is a real help.I just joined the aussy group yesterday and have a lot to learn about this stuff but posts like yours certainly helps.
zman Posted December 31, 2011 Posted December 31, 2011 Ken Benedict wrote: Don't forget the new CCBs (Cosmic Color Bulbs) planned for 2012; 100 seperate LED RGB C9s that can be individually addressed, like the CCRs.AND the CCFs (Cosmic Color Floods) also planned for 2012.More from the great folks at Light-O-Rama.Bdeditch: I can understand your enthusiasm about large channels when I see projects like this 12,000 DMX channel RGB Mega tree: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hNorlgJcQs?version=3I knew there would be a bunch more good input!Ken the CCB's are not truly a C9. To set expectations, if you have not seen pictures of them, they are almost between a C7 and C9. When I saw them at Expo, I described them as Easter Eggs. The are shorter than a C9 and more fat than a C7. I was sort of disappointed with the size. So not sure if LOR plans to modify the final product in 2012.
bfrd22 Posted December 31, 2011 Posted December 31, 2011 Ken good insight into the math involved and Thank you. I had considered this when choosing the "27".I choose the RGB module route, being that my mounting surfaces are flexible by design, which is a killer for he strip, and I did not want nodes in this application.My draw on the module string is .5 amps per channel, and that I had planed on keeping the 9th channel group as a spare set on each board, keeps me well under the 15 amp load.So yes when choosing a controller board, system language, loads, distance, all have to be taken into effect.As I stated earlier my first choice was a LOR board, but in my case, the loads used, application, and lay out the LOR board was over kill, and the cost. $400 for LOR boards. Or $80 for the 27's.You cant go blind into this, just as with AC you have to calculate your loads and know what your getting into. Plan power and lay outs. I like my controllers where their loads are. Where others like all their stuff in one location. Matter of choice and planning.
GaryMartin Posted December 31, 2011 Posted December 31, 2011 bdeditch wrote: It seems every Video I have watched they all use the Enttec and the $6 DMX Modules. I have not seen one video on how the CMB16D is set up and shown in action, that is what I need to convince myself that would be the way to go.Here's a 16 chan DC controller running LED floods. The snowmen in front have the floods in them:
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