Channel Grouping

[friskybri]

OK, SO reading the manual I see about channel grouping. Never really got into using tracks to seperate my display. With that being said. Isn't using the channel grouping kind of like tracks where you can say all the mini trees colors in one group. mega tree in the next group. The reason most use track is to seperate the display so they wont scroll up and down the hundreds of channel? Be able to flip from parts of the display faster. Couldn't the groups be the same as making tracks? I so hope I didn't just confuse everyone with this post.

[ClydeL]

Well, after learning about tracks this year, I was sooo thrilled. think of the 1st track (original) as your MASTER. You want to make a copy of this track. Label it as WORKING TRACK and only do sequencing or channel arrangement in the WORKING TRACK. That way, when you create new sequences next year, your master track will be in order of controller 1/chan 1-16... controller 2/chan 1-16 etc... To add another controller, you just add it to the master track. Then after assigning it channel names you can add them to your WORKING TRACK.. then arrange them in the order you like. I found that little tip on here and will be re-writing my sequences this spring using this method (leaves room for continual expansion).

My experience with the TRACK is that you can create custom timings for each separate track. Yes it can be used like groups in that you can place all your clear trees with your red trees with your green trees. How I did it was to group my channels by DISPLAY ELEMENT COLOR. So all my clear lights are in a group, red lights in a group, blue, green etc... Then under that group I create a sub-group with my 6.5' white tree line under the CLEAR group. Another sub-group is my 4' white tree line. And, I have a sub-group for my clear mega tree.

Once I create my sub groups I then decided to seperate each display element out from the main group by creating a TRACK labeled (for example) 6.5' TREE LINE. Then I copy the sub-groups of the red, green, and clear 6.5' tree line to the NEW TRACK And label it Track 3 6.5' Tree Line.... This allows me to look only at that one display element that has 3 different colors. No scrolling needed, no channels between the sections. Definitely helps during the sequencing process. I did the same thing for all my C9's... created a new C9 TRACK then added the groups from the sub-groups REDS C9'S, GREEN C9'S, CLEAR C9'S, MULTI C9'S, BLUE C9'S etc... As well as for the mega tree.

I've created so many tracks and variations it's crazy... The thing I've found the most useful is for my firesticks (matrix 5x6) I'm able to re arrange the channels haphazardly and freely in FireStick Play TRACK in order to make X-patterns OR special raining sequences. Moving the channels are a pain, but having a track you can move around is great. It allows me to put firestick 1-1 above 2-1 above 3-1 above 4-1 etc... or I can do 1-1, 2-2,3-3, 4-4, 5-5 etc...

What I'd do if I were you is this... create a new music sequence with a 30 second song. Import your channel configuration and play with it. Get used to it a bit. Then you can go to a sequence and see how much it will help you with your programming!

Hope I wasn't too confusing.

[Paul Roberson]

Custom timing grids can be selected and used on any track. You can have multiple timing grids and only use one track.

With that said I am a 'master track' type user. In my 1st track it contains ALL my channels. I never do any rearranging in this track as it will mess up channel configuration imports.

One word of caution on groups. IF you make a group in a track. Then copy that group to another track. Those two groups are now linked together even thought they are in different tracks. If you move or remove/delete a channel from the group it will also affect the group you copied that is in another track. You must de-group the copied group to break the link between the two before you do any channel rearranging.

[-klb-]

There are quite a few things you can do with groups that you can't do with tracks, and the two compliment each other well.

I use tracks to give me multiple sort orders, that all contain the same channels, in addition to the ever important 1st track that allows for importing each year's channel configs on top of last years sequences, despite all the new additions and new sorted tracks after that first one.

For an example of my different tracks, I have one track that the first sort order is color. Another track, is item, then color, then the index within it. So mini tree 1-20 white, mini tree 1-20 Green, etc. And the next one is item, index, color. Mini tree 1 white, red, green, blue, Mini tree 2 white red green blue.

These different sorts have some power you might not first realize, and get even more when you add grouping..

For example, My color track has several layers of grouping.. If I collapse everything, I have Blue, Green, Red, and White. If I expand any of those, I get trees, mini trees, lawn fan, wire frame trees, half mega tree, & firehouse. If I expanded red or white, I also get arches, and with white, the verticals also show up. If I expand say trees, I get tree 1 through tree 5. Now each of my trees is 14 channels of each color. So, with say green expanded, I can expand trees, select a few cells of the tree 1 group, and apply custom fading twinkle to the group. Now all 14 channels will have that same twinkle applied, and it looks great on the trees. I could chase that across the 5 trees with the chase tool. I could select a few cells of that tree group, and copy.. This loads the clipboard with all 14 channels in the group. I can now paste those 14 channels into the next tree.

The Item, color index track is also very useful, and quite grouped. The top groups are all the item types. Under those are the colors. So for a use example, expand mini trees. You see white, red, green, and blue. Pick say blue, to put a fade up, on, fade down in the first few cells of a range you want a chase in. When you initially do this, it applies those commands to all the mini trees in blue at that start time.. But when I go back and apply chase to the group, through a time range, it now creates the chase through all 20 mini trees, removing that profile from the start of all of them.

The item, index, color one I don't actually use as often any more. But it historically has been good to develop a pattern, then shift to a different color by copying an area, then pasting a row or two offset.

One big caution with groups. When you copy them from one track to another, you don't get a separate group that you can modify with impunity. Rather you get a second place to view the group. So if you duplicate your master track, group things in this second track, then copy to a 3rd track, if you just start moving things in and out of groups as part of changing your sort, you will mess up your second track. Because every time you remove something from a group in the third track, you also removed it from the group in the second track. So until there is an option to duplicate the groups when you duplicate the tracks, the first thing you need to do in the third track is ungroup all the groups, which does not affect the second track, and then start grouping them up again.

But groups are good for other things.. Want to delete a bunch of channels without going through the confirmation every time? Group them up, then do the delete once..

Want to move a whole bunch of channels from the bottom of a track to the top? Group them up, drag the group to the top, and ungroup them. (if you want)

[George Simmons]

For me, groups are what I've wished tracks could have been all along. I created tracks to segregate various display elements. In my S2 configs from 2008 - present I've got 21 tracks. It's more comfortable to poke yourself in between your toes with a toothpick than it is to move tracks around so you can see the two you want lined up back-to-back. With groups it's drag and drop.

In my S3 config, what I did was the master track first and then I copied channels from the master into a working track where I created groups, which I then moved to a Groups. (I hadn't yet learned about ungrouping at that point so naturally I did things the hard way.) I didn't copy any existing groups from place to place - I copied individual channels and made all unique groups. It takes a little longer maybe to set your original config up using this method, but it avoids the pitfalls that Paul and Kevin described of inadvertantly moving things around in places where you don't want to.

[beeiilll]

I am currently going through my config trying to sort it all out and make it so it will be easier for me to work with later on.
Now that I am looking at over 256 channels it is pretty daunting.
I want to make my mega tree listing so that it is easier to work with as well as I am increasing the channel count on it and adding 32 or maybe more channels for spirals on there as well.
So do I set it up by channel, by colors, by color groups (I use red, green, blue, white) or what?
As I read here, it looks like I need to figure out tracks (or better I need to buy the newer software and learn groups as well as tracks)?
That seems like the big thing that I am missing with trying to make things easier to work with when sequencing?

Nuts, I'm going to have to study again! No one told me there would be a test on this stuff! LOL

[-klb-]

While I find more value (and risk) in groups than I do in tracks, there is a lot of value in multiple tracks that all contain the same channels, but different sort orders. Many effects can be much easier to do if you pick the right sort order to use to do your work.

[beeiilll]

-klb- wrote:

While I find more value (and risk) in groups than I do in tracks, there is a lot of value in multiple tracks that all contain the same channels, but different sort orders.  Many effects can be much easier to do if you pick the right sort order to use to do your work. 

That is my problem for the most part.
I like doing sweeps on the mega tree with all 4 colors but to be able to just do them with one color at a time means 2 different "views" for channel layout. Especially if I am trying to get a certain "look" for things along with the mini trees at the same time.

[kiplorenzo]

I think I missed something here....

 

So I just worked for about 2 days on a song with all the new channels and did all these great groups.

I save the file, I exported the channel configs... on a new song, the groups are gone!  Is there any way to have to groups go to a new song?

thx

 

Never Mind, Just figured it out!

 

WOOHOO!

Edited February 16, 2014 by kiplorenzo