Lester Stone Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I look out at my yard and see a vast amount of orange, green, and brown cords. A large amount of SPT wire for custom lengths. I have 10 controllers in plywood boxes in 3 different places in the yard. I know that I will never get rid of all the cords, but was wandering is there a way of using multiconducter wire to each large channel consumer IE 24 channels for Mega tree, 40 channels for arches. 28 channels for mini trees. I know there is multi conductor cable out there. I guess my question would be in wiring this up can I use a common neutral and a seperate conductor for each channel? And what would be the minimum guage wire would be needed . I need a crash course in Electrical 101. I used to be a cable splicer for the telephone company so the concept is not foriegn to me I have spliced 900 pair cable before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimswinder Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 you using LED's or incandescents?I am using over 1000' of 18AWG 8 Conductor Cable...though I chose not to use a common ground...but others have...All my elements are all four color, Red Green, Blue and White, so having one plug (molex connector) per element/set of 4 strings was a real time saver...and I am 100% LED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Don Gillespie Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Lester Stone wrote: I look out at my yard and see a vast amount of orange, green, and brown cords. A large amount of SPT wire for custom lengths. I have 10 controllers in plywood boxes in 3 different places in the yard. I know that I will never get rid of all the cords, but was wandering is there a way of using multiconducter wire to each large channel consumer IE 24 channels for Mega tree, 40 channels for arches. 28 channels for mini trees. I know there is multi conductor cable out there. I guess my question would be in wiring this up can I use a common neutral and a seperate conductor for each channel? And what would be the minimum guage wire would be needed . I need a crash course in Electrical 101. I used to be a cable splicer for the telephone company so the concept is not foriegn to me I have spliced 900 pair cable before.Interesting never seen it done before but keep us posted if its doable (if thats a word), in Canada we just let the snow cover the ground and all the cords disappear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Last year I grouped mini-trees into what I called quadrants, and used a common neutral return for multiple mini-trees. If you are using incans, like I am, you just need to be aware that that common neutral is carry the full (potential) current load for all trees that are on it, so it takes some planning so your common neutral doesn't become a hazard. If you are all LEDs like Jim, not too much of a worry. It saved wire and time, but makes things fairly custom. It made sense last year as I had 3 controllers, all in a single location.I didn't do it this year, as I'm more distributed with the controller layout, and with more controllers. So yes, I have a box of several hundred feet of unused "mini tree harnesses" sitting in my garage this year. Thats the down side--customizing makes you a bit less flexible year to year.Speaking honestly, if you are at a point of needing a crash course in electrical 101, I'd be studying that electrical 101 before attempting anything to do with trying a common neutral or similar. To have someone just tell you how to do it might get it done for you, but the minute you need to troubleshoot something, or want to change it, you're dependent on someone else to help you out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lester Stone Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 I am 95 percent LED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lester Stone Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 I also am looking for ease of setup too. I like the the idea of cables like Jim is using. another aspect for wanting to do this is to put all the controllers in one location so I dont have powercords going to seperate receptacles. I guess I am trying to tidy up the look some and to try to elimintate someone tripping over one of the many cords. i guess I need to look up molex connectors. My goal is to have all the controllers in a small plastic shed with multicables to the elements in the yard. it is "doable" if thats a word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBullard Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Lester Stone wrote:I look out at my yard and see a vast amount of orange, green, and brown cords. A large amount of SPT wire for custom lengths. I have 10 controllers in plywood boxes in 3 different places in the yard. I know that I will never get rid of all the cords, but was wandering is there a way of using multiconducter wire to each large channel consumer IE 24 channels for Mega tree, 40 channels for arches. 28 channels for mini trees. I know there is multi conductor cable out there. I guess my question would be in wiring this up can I use a common neutral and a seperate conductor for each channel? And what would be the minimum guage wire would be needed . I need a crash course in Electrical 101. I used to be a cable splicer for the telephone company so the concept is not foriegn to me I have spliced 900 pair cable before. Yes, many of us do this with a common neutral.I agree with everything said by DonFL.I will add some suggestions, start making detailed current and distance measurements NOW.Then take the electricity 101, 102, 103 courses. Possibly you might even need the 200 or 300 series courses, to cover the common neutral calculations and wiring.To do this safely, you may need to also be calculating voltage drop, and how much to derate the standard wire gauge calculations to possibly compensate for the facts that quite often multi conductor cable of a given gauge cannot handle as much current as a single strand of the same gauge.Good luck, and please be safe, and have a full understanding of what you are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBullard Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Lester Stone wrote:I also am looking for ease of setup too. I like the the idea of cables like Jim is using. another aspect for wanting to do this is to put all the controllers in one location so I dont have powercords going to seperate receptacles. I guess I am trying to tidy up the look some and to try to elimintate someone tripping over one of the many cords. i guess I need to look up molex connectors. My goal is to have all the controllers in a small plastic shed with multicables to the elements in the yard. it is "doable" if thats a wordWhen dealing with molex style connectors, pay special attention to the voltage and current ratings. Some are not suitable for this application.Take the Electricity courses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Also, while we all know well enough not to take any structural engineering advice from Jim Winder, as far as we know, he has never electrocuted anyone, or himself. However, this lighting season is far from over.Just consider this a word to the wise....:P:D:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulXmas Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Why not just place the controllers closer to the elements?I have my controllers attached to my (mini)mega tree. Saved me a lot of extension cords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBullard Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 PaulXmas wrote:Why not just place the controllers closer to the elements?I have my controllers attached to my (mini)mega tree. Saved me a lot of extension cords.Paul,Your advise is too simple I have my 30 controllers all throughout my display as well. But..... I still use a lot of multi conductor cable and extension cords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimswinder Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 DonFL wrote: as far as we know, he has never electrocuted anyone, or himself.no electrocution...yet...but have sent a few "tingles" thru my body... :shock::shock::D:shock: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Constantino Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 90% of the cabling in my display I use multi conductor cable. Depending on the load on each ch I will use different gauge wire. I use 18/5 cable, 18/9 cable, 20/36 cable, and 22/10 cable. I use molex plugs and AMP CPC plugs. My Mega Tree uses 224ch and I only have 8 main cables. Also I only use black or gray cables. This makes the display look better durning the day and more professional.Steve Attached files Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeiilll Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 jimswinder wrote:DonFL wrote: as far as we know, he has never electrocuted anyone, or himself. no electrocution...yet...but have sent a few "tingles" thru my body... :shock::shock::D:shock:Come on now Jim. Those weren't tingles, those were hair brained ideas coming to light! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimswinder Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 beeiilll wrote: Those weren't tingles, those were hair brained ideas coming to light! lmao....I do get a lot of tingles!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeiilll Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 jimswinder wrote:beeiilll wrote: Those weren't tingles, those were hair brained ideas coming to light! lmao....I do get a lot of tingles!!! HA,HA,HA - ROFLMAOYou know, we all have those moments it seems now doesn't it?More than once I have had people give me that "Your not really going to try that are you?" look. And yes I am was my answer more often than not!Tingles are good.Well except for the time I got nailed by 440 volt 3 phase! That numbed my arm for a week and threw me across a room about 20 feet into a wall.That was because a "licensed" electrician had run the feed wires for a motor disconnect up behind the knife switch! I had to chase him through the building with a hammer till a couple of other people stopped me.Otherwise those mental tingles are lots of fun - expensive at times - but lots of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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