Mike_Geppert Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I have 64 Channel Mega Tree setup with 3 Arches of 8 Channels X 2 Colors.I am using an RF ELL going form a lap top to the first controller, and then CAT5 to the rest.When running several sequences, the last arch (at the end of the chain) some of the channels are acting flaky. They either turn off slowly or on early or blink when they should be off.Running the HW utility they seem to run just fine.I was thinking maybe it was something in the actually Sequence but didn't see anything that corresponded with the channel.I then thought it might be some RF interference (I don't know if the protocol has CRCs or not) so we hooked the Lap top directly and observed the same issue.I am starting to wonder if the LED strings might have different turn on/off voltages but even that doesn't explain what I am seeing mostly. (All LEDS are the same brand from CDI - M6s).I should note that the first 8 Channels are all Blue and they work great. Only a few channels of the While LEDS on the second 8 channels seem to be flaky.Anybody have any ideas on how to debug the issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimswinder Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Switch your Blue lights with your White lights (where they plug into the controller) and see if the white lights respond the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 all the flaky channels on one controller? and on channels 9-16 (or it sounds like from your description?..)...Have you swapped controllers to see if the problem follows the controller?Edit..just saw Jim's comment..even easier..just swap 8 for 8 on the same controller first.Objective is, to eliminate, or confirm, the controller as the root cause of the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_Geppert Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Thanks both are good ideas! Will try... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmoore60 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 You can try a controller reset as well. Usually a reset clears up some strange problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfing4Dough Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 As a test, add on a set of incandescents in line with the LEDs on the channel causing the problem, and if that solves it, then it could just be that a snubber is required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_Geppert Posted July 11, 2011 Author Share Posted July 11, 2011 So here is what we did:We swapped the 1-8 with 9-16 (Problem is with the upper channels).The problem stayed with the Channels.We then added some lights to the 4th Arch box (we haven't built the 4th arch yet so we just dropped some lights on it). Hard to tell with the lights on the ground if they lighted properly.3rd arch still had issues.We then Swapped the lights from the 3rd Arch with the lights on the 4th box. We then again had problems on the 4th arch!Now all of my boxes (except for one) are kits. But I can't imagine that I have two boxes where the upper channels are each having Flaky issues.So from this we know that it does not seem to be the lights, but it does seem to be the last 2 boxes on the chain, with the upper channels. Looks like 10, 12, and 14.I think we will move the ELL RF to this end and see if that has an effect.Thanks for the advise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_Geppert Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 We moved the ELL RF unit to the end of the chain, making it the beginning, and we get the same behavior.I am really dumbfounded now...Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmoore60 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Time to start eliminating things.Can you connect the controllers without the ELL? I really do not think your ELL is the problem but it is worth a shot.Also, do you have any CFL bulbs that are in use at the same time as the controllers/lights and could be near as for as circuits are concerned? CFL have been known to cause noise on the line and disrupt the power for the controllers.Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_Geppert Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 When we first noticed the problem we did take the lap top and directly connect it to the chain without the ELL. Same issue.CFL = Compact Fluorescent Light bulbs? Really? People use those with a light controller? Wow - no we don't have any. All LEDs with the exception of the star on top of the tree which is incandescent.Thanks for the ideas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 CFLs nearby, generating electrical "hash", or noise, not that they are connected to your controllers.Can you set the two controllers up on their own, direct to your laptop..no other controllers or lights connected?Then...If you take the two controllers with the flaky channels and test them on similar strings of LEDs, how do they behave?Can you confirm this is truly only happening on channels 10, 12, 14..on each of the two units? Might it be happening on others, and not being noticed?Not sure if you're running a sequence to test the tree, but wondering if you have something in your sequence that isn't right...the fact it is the same 3 channels on two different controllers, if that is truly what is happening, would make me wonder about that.Are you doing anything like a shared neutral for multiple channels or are you using all separate extension cords on each controller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_Geppert Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 DonFL, Thanks for the recommendations!When we test we are usually on the patio with a lap top and the mega tree is probable 60 ft away (to the controllers on the back side). No lights in the path or around that I know of.I do know that the HW Utility runs like a champ so my first issue was maybe there is something in the Sequence that is doing it intentionally. But I didn't see anything that looked out of the ordinary. This Sunday (assuming I don't have to work) we will give the sequence some serious looking at and tweaking to see what we can effect.Since it is all LEDs, we have all the power daisy chained together. It is one long extension cord. I didn't think about changing the power side around. We can try that too.Thanks so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfing4Dough Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Mike_Geppert wrote: DonFL, Thanks for the recommendations!When we test we are usually on the patio with a lap top and the mega tree is probable 60 ft away (to the controllers on the back side). No lights in the path or around that I know of.I would turn off any CFLs in your house during testing just to rule that out. From what I have read, there are some cases where they interfered and they weren't nearby (though it was possible that they were on the same circuit, I'm not sure). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmoore60 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Mike,I sent you a PM, just in case you have not seen it yet.Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBullard Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 If the lap top is running with its AC power supply connected, you might want to test just on battery, with the power supply unplugged from the AC line. Some switching power supplies can really throw "trash" on the AC line.One other thing is to be sure the Cat5 data cable is well separated from the long extension cord.Just some thoughts and some things easy to test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmoore60 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Mike,A couple more things came to mind. Is this the only sequence that your lights are doing wacky things on? If not the only sequence, did you make one sequence and export your channel config and then import to make a new sequence?If you put the sequence into a show. Then you can run the verifier on the show and it will search for issues. If you have a channel defined in your sequence more than once could be the cause of wierd problems that you are seeing. the verifier will find those items.Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Mike...just wondering if you made anymore progress on figuring this one out.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_Geppert Posted August 1, 2011 Author Share Posted August 1, 2011 Mystery Solved!First I want to thank every one for all the help...Here was my newbie mistake that I found this last Sunday when we finished the 4th Arch.After setting up the forth arch and then starting to really focus in on why we have a flakiness in the arches. We found out that the 4th arch, some of the channels where not coming on at all. I narrowed down on a place in the sequence where they most definitely should be coming on and I finally looked at the assignment of the unit and noticed that it was actually set the 3rd arch.So when the channel on the 4th arch was supposed to be turned on, it was actually turning on a channel on the 3rd arch.Turns out about 3 or 4 channels where either like this or one was on the wrong channel, i.e. it was on the correct controller but was channel 11 instead of 10.Once I corrected this all worked well!I then had to go and modify all the songs and they all worked well!Thanks again for all the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny M. Carter Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Mike, another great tool is the "Verifier". The Light-O-Rama Verifier can be used to check for certain types of problems with the way that Light-O-Rama is configured on your machine, and with your schedule, shows, and sequences.To use the Verifier, simply click its "Verify" button. As it is checking for issues, it will display what it is doing in its "Output Log" tab; when it is complete, it will switch to its "Results" tab, showing a list of the issues that it has found:This info can be found in the LOR Help section in your current software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_Geppert Posted August 1, 2011 Author Share Posted August 1, 2011 Ooooo I learn something new!I will give that a try and see what it says.Thanks for the suggestion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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