paul sessel Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 Just out of curiosity, if I could bring in laser lights at around $600 - $900, would there be any interest?
DownTown Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 Cool idea, but with all the permits and insurance that I'd need to include lasers in an outdoor display, it would be a show stopper, literally.D.T.
huskernut Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 Tell me more? What kind of lasers, what would they be capable of doing???
paul sessel Posted January 4, 2011 Author Posted January 4, 2011 Ed Slonka Jr wrote: Paul more details plese!To be honest, I don't know that much about them. I'm talking to a company that sells them to commercial lighting companies. These ($600 - $900 range) are at the bottom of their price range. They can do 100's of different effects and I thought they might be cool to add to our product mix. I might buy a couple of samples and play around with them but just wanted to see if there was interest in the item.
Ed Slonka Jr Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 Thanks Paul! It would be interesting to see what you come up with. Please keep us posted!Ed
ryebred Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 DownTown wrote: Cool idea, but with all the permits and insurance that I'd need to include lasers in an outdoor display, it would be a show stopper, literally.D.T.Is this a state law that requires permits and insurance for laser usage or is this a federal thing or something else altogether? I have heard of issues with lasers blinding pilots, as I am a pilot, but I was not aware one needed permits and insurance to use them in a holiday display.I have not looked into the use of lasers in my show but I imagine some people on here have used them so just curious what regulations there would be on them. Thanks.
Greg Young Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Paul - I would be interested in the 3D animation lasers (that project actual images using ILDA protocols).To me simply projecting laser beams, which requires fog, is not something I associate with a Christmas display (each to their own of course), so I would not be interested in those..Greg
DownTown Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 ryebred wrote: DownTown wrote: Cool idea, but with all the permits and insurance that I'd need to include lasers in an outdoor display, it would be a show stopper, literally.D.T.Is this a state law that requires permits and insurance for laser usage or is this a federal thing or something else altogether? I have heard of issues with lasers blinding pilots, as I am a pilot, but I was not aware one needed permits and insurance to use them in a holiday display.I have not looked into the use of lasers in my show but I imagine some people on here have used them so just curious what regulations there would be on them. Thanks.ryebred,The regulations are federal. You would need variances and approvals from both the FDA and the FAA for an outdoor laser display.Check the links:http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/service_units/systemops/aaim/organizations/airspace_rules/laser/http://www.fda.gov/Radiation-EmittingProducts/RadiationEmittingProductsandProcedures/HomeBusinessandEntertainment/ucm118907.htmhttp://www.fda.gov/downloads/AboutFDA/ReportsManualsForms/Forms/UCM080788.pdfhttp://www.fda.gov/downloads/AboutFDA/ReportsManualsForms/Forms/UCM081634.pdfThere are strict requirements for the submission of permits and variances to set up a laser show (indoor or outdoor). The insurance comes in when something goes awry, and you damage someone's retina. I LOVE the idea of adding lasers to my show, but I definitely cannot justify the benefit vs. the risks. Have you ever really looked at a laser display, like the one in the Trans Siberian Orchestra show? If you took the time to notice, when the lasers are on, they are VERY controlled, and NEVER shine on the crowd. They shine on spots on the walls or the structure of the arena. Beam placement and direction are very precise.I don't think that I could set up and maintain that sort of precision through a month of wind and rain and snow outside... Another issue is that in an arena, they use a machine called a hazer to fill the space with a thin haze that reveals the laser beams when they are on. Without that haze, the beams are much less visible and don't have nearly the WOW factor. Maintaining a haze outside would be next to impossible...So, although it sounds cool, and definately takes a show to the next level, the regulatory, legal, and technical hurdles are daunting at best.D.T.
ItsMeBobO Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 I used a low power laser class IIIB this year in my show. Mounted in a box I made about 12 feet off the ground. Pointing at the house and grass it made moving red & green dots.Too me it was a great addition and I would be interested in seeing the models you are considering Paul.Only used when the other lights were off. This is a product video. My videos are not ready yet.As far as the regulations go. I plan to read them for next year. This low power laser is diffuse and legal so I didnt really think it would be a problem. Show is over for this year.
DownTown Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 As an alternative to lasers, you might look into something like:http://www.martin.com/product/product.asp?product=maniascx500orhttp://www.martin.com/product/product.asp?product=maniaefx700I have used these types of lights for my halloween display, and they are a big hit.D.T.
Greg Young Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 DownTown wrote: ryebred wrote: DownTown wrote: Cool idea, but with all the permits and insurance that I'd need to include lasers in an outdoor display, it would be a show stopper, literally.D.T.Is this a state law that requires permits and insurance for laser usage or is this a federal thing or something else altogether? I have heard of issues with lasers blinding pilots, as I am a pilot, but I was not aware one needed permits and insurance to use them in a holiday display.I have not looked into the use of lasers in my show but I imagine some people on here have used them so just curious what regulations there would be on them. Thanks.ryebred,The regulations are federal. You would need variances and approvals from both the FDA and the FAA for an outdoor laser display.Check the links:http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/service_units/systemops/aaim/organizations/airspace_rules/laser/http://www.fda.gov/Radiation-EmittingProducts/RadiationEmittingProductsandProcedures/HomeBusinessandEntertainment/ucm118907.htmhttp://www.fda.gov/downloads/AboutFDA/ReportsManualsForms/Forms/UCM080788.pdfhttp://www.fda.gov/downloads/AboutFDA/ReportsManualsForms/Forms/UCM081634.pdfThere are strict requirements for the submission of permits and variances to set up a laser show (indoor or outdoor). The insurance comes in when something goes awry, and you damage someone's retina. I LOVE the idea of adding lasers to my show, but I definitely cannot justify the benefit vs. the risks. Have you ever really looked at a laser display, like the one in the Trans Siberian Orchestra show? If you took the time to notice, when the lasers are on, they are VERY controlled, and NEVER shine on the crowd. They shine on spots on the walls or the structure of the arena. Beam placement and direction are very precise.I don't think that I could set up and maintain that sort of precision through a month of wind and rain and snow outside... Another issue is that in an arena, they use a machine called a hazer to fill the space with a thin haze that reveals the laser beams when they are on. Without that haze, the beams are much less visible and don't have nearly the WOW factor. Maintaining a haze outside would be next to impossible...So, although it sounds cool, and definately takes a show to the next level, the regulatory, legal, and technical hurdles are daunting at best.D.T.You are absolutely correct DT!My plan is to have the laser mounted inside the house, projecting from an upper level window, out back to a wooden "screen" (reflective surface actually), which will be mounted elevated on the opposite shoreline of my farm pond.It will allow visibility of the images on the screen, but there is no way anyone could ever get near any of the beams (unless they can walk on water, and are very, very tall!), so I am assured of safety. Aiming beams at the ground is certainly not a safe way of setting it up, if folks are able to get into that area....I met with some of the TSO crew. I observed how they aimed their lasers in the arena in Buffalo between the various levels of the auditorium (which seats 18,000 people).Theirs are are class 3b, and they have had no issues, due to how they are utilized.Class 3bs will certainly cause retinal damage, so you certainly don't want an errant projection hitting anyone in their eyes!Greg
Alan C Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Greg Young wrote: My plan is to have the laser mounted inside the house, projecting from an upper level window, out back to a wooden "screen" (reflective surface actually), which will be mounted elevated on the opposite shoreline of my farm pond.You still need to be careful. The problem with laser light is that it stays in a concentrated spot, rather than spreading with distance. A reflected laser beam is every bit as dangerous as a direct laser beam - the reflection does not spread either. You would need to ensure that the reflections did not shine at people or the sky too.On the question of low power lasers being "safe", I am not sure that there is a great deal of medical evidence on that either way. Those who work with lasers would never look at the beam to find out!Regards,Alan.
Dad02 Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Ran the laser Bob has in his video this year and learned a few things. The laser was set to standard motion not sound activated which is an option if it's in reach of an audio cable. Placed the laser in the tree pointed back at the display and mega tree. The colder it got out the less the green laser emitted eventually fading out all together. The red laser still emitted dots onto the display elements like the poles, mega tree and looked good on the snow but there was no beam effect. Next year the channel would be better used on something else.
Greg Young Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Alan C wrote: Greg Young wrote: My plan is to have the laser mounted inside the house, projecting from an upper level window, out back to a wooden "screen" (reflective surface actually), which will be mounted elevated on the opposite shoreline of my farm pond.You still need to be careful. The problem with laser light is that it stays in a concentrated spot, rather than spreading with distance. A reflected laser beam is every bit as dangerous as a direct laser beam - the reflection does not spread either. You would need to ensure that the reflections did not shine at people or the sky too.On the question of low power lasers being "safe", I am not sure that there is a great deal of medical evidence on that either way. Those who work with lasers would never look at the beam to find out!Regards,Alan.Agreed Alan. My choice of words was poor. I used reflective to indicate the images would be projected onto the surface (vs from behind).My plan is to use a matte white exterior grade paint to coat the plywood sheets which the images will be projected on, so there won't be reflections as there could be with a true reflective (ie glass beaded) surface.Greg
ItsMeBobO Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 This thread is going every which way. Lets not lump every strength and type of laser into the unsafe zone. Car high beams have disoriented me many more times than lasers.The laser I used at 12 feet off the ground and 15-30 from its landing zone was designed to spread out. The effect was spread out over a 40 foot circle with many hundreds of dots each a fraction of the laser strength.I did not have the problem of green fade during cold temps. This little guy was only $100 and is definitely not powerful enough to show the beam and I was trying for that effect. There are two other pot settings when not using the sound option. I choose the values which caused the most motion. Mine was hooked to a DC channel. The effect was pleasing to me and completely different than lights. Right now I see no reason to not use it again next year.
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