Interference causing lights to flicker

[heystew]

I know there is much discussion about interference and how to solve but I wanted to most my particular issue in as much detail as possible as I've tried a majority of the recommendations on the forum. See picture at bottom of post for reference.
Facts about the setup:
- all 3 controllers pictured are powered on same extension cord with 3 way plug at end
- all are LOR1600W with most recent firmware re-flashed last night
- all lights are LED of various pedigree
- there are a very large number of LED strings in close proximity. This is a megatree with both vertical and horizontal strings.
- the controllers are located within 3 feet of each other hanging inside the tree frame

Symptom: lights on other controllers flicker when fading or quickly turning on/off lights on another controller. The most egregious case is that when quickly fading on/off lights on the blue controller (0x06) the lights on the red controller (0x04) flicker like crazy.

Clues/Methods tried:
1. added RS-485 terminators to ends of network http://lightorama.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=20918&forum_id=76&highlight=terminators
2. removed the rest of the controllers from the network (those not pictured)
3. removed the White and Red controllers from the network (at the red X)

Outcome - despite doing the above, the lights on the Red controller still flicker when quickly fading on/off even though the Red controller is no longer connected to the LOR network. This leads me to believe it is either proximity of all these LEDs/controllers to each other, or interference being injected onto the power line.

Things yet to try:
- adding snubbers to all channels (i've built 30, about 80 more to go) http://forums.planetchristmas.com/showthread.php/37562-Easiest-Terminators-Snubbers-to-make
- adding an EMI filter on power line like an X10 noise filter (search XPPF on google)
- isolate controllers on other circuits (although i'm pretty sure I've seen this occur across circuits.)

Open to any other thoughts/suggestions.
Thanks!

[JBullard]

heystew wrote:

Outcome - despite doing the above, the lights on the Red controller still flicker when quickly fading on/off even though the Red controller is no longer connected to the LOR network. This leads me to believe it is either proximity of all these LEDs/controllers to each other, or interference being injected onto the power line.

Things yet to try:
- adding snubbers to all channels (i've built 30, about 80 more to go) http://forums.planetchristmas.com/showthread.php/37562-Easiest-Terminators-Snubbers-to-make
- adding an EMI filter on power line like an X10 noise filter (search XPPF on google)
- isolate controllers on other circuits (although i'm pretty sure I've seen this occur across circuits.)

Dave

I would not necessary think the proximity of the controllers is interferring with each other.

However, the triacs may be generating noise in the power line that the shared power feed is allowing to get into the other controllers.

I have several XPPFs that I use throughout the , however if I remember correctly their filter circuit is designed to suppress a 120 Hz noise to keep it from getting into the housewiring from a motor or switching power supply.

Wouldn't hurt to try though.

How about the Cat5 cables? Are they in close proximity to any of the 120 volt lines? that is, not only power input but also the controlled outputs to the lights. Although with the Red box Cat5 disconnected you were still seeing the problem, must be coming in through the power line

You stated you did update the firmware last night, was it to 4.32 ?

My trouble shooting suggestion would be in addition to what you have already tried:

First - Isolate the Cat5 cables as much as possible from any other voltage carring wires.

Second, temporarily run separate extension cords to the controllers especially to the Red one. Hopefully have the Red box it on a different "phase/leg" of your homes electrical service.

This is a strange one, keep us posted.

[heystew]

The firmware update was to 4.32 (they were previously 4.01).

I have replaced the CAT5 cables between the three controllers depicted. I did try to keep them away from the AC lines, but I will see if I can do better as well as try removing them all together from the white and red controller when I re-test with them disconnected.

thanks for the suggestions and I will keep you posted as I try the other items.

[rwertz]

The snubbers seem like a good thing to try (to me).

Fluorescent lights have been known to cause issues with the controllers. If you have any connected to or near the controllers, try shutting them off.

(There sure seems to be a lot of these types of issues this year)

[JBullard]

rwertz wrote:

The snubbers seem like a good thing to try (to me).

(There sure seems to be a lot of these types of issues this year)

The Cat5 cable to the Red controller was disconnected!

I don't know how they would help in this situation that much, but I have never had to use them. I run over 40,000 LEDs with no problems.

[rwertz]

This is my first year with LEDs and I haven't needed snubbers either. The logic behind why they could be needed makes sense. But I don't know that they have resolved issues with LEDs coming on when the TRIAC is not being fired.

I would think 30 snubbers completed would be enough to see if they made a difference or not.

[heystew]

Sorry if I misled you on the # of snubbers.. those are ones that I have made and installed elsewhere on channels that had large numbers of LED strings on a single channel.
The snubbers have helped those LEDs fade more consistently.

I will be building some more to try on these channels. I will report back my findings.

Thanks all for your input.

[heystew]

A quick update... this is not yet solved, but I have found a way to cut down on the phenomenon. I have not yet tried all of the above methods. One method I have tried that is yielding some success is to use an isolating surge suppressor. The one I've tried with some success is by Tripp Lite
http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtSeriesID=825&txtModelID=99

I used two of them for the 3 controllers as they each have 2 isolated banks of outlets in them. They are still connected to the same AC circuit. One observation.. they buzz like crazy during the times that I would have seen the lights flickering before..

Will keep you posted with more findings..

[displaysinmotion_will]

JBullard wrote:

However, the triacs may be generating noise in the power line that the shared power feed is allowing to get into the other controllers.

I really doubt this would be the cause, on my bellagio/ matrix display setup i have 9 boards mounted 12" apart and is shared of off one main power feed



heystew wrote:

I used two of them for the 3 controllers as they each have 2 isolated banks of outlets in them. They are still connected to the same AC circuit. One observation.. they buzz like crazy during the times that I would have seen the lights flickering before..

Will keep you posted with more findings..

one thing i would suggest you try are ferrite chokes on your network cords i use these on both ends of every line I run between controllers

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Laird-Technologies/28A2025-0A2/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvgExXaNlWje3MVGS%2fILaX9ieRA5SLGcL8%3d


Attached files

[mbettez]

Did you ever get this flicker problem figured out? I'm having a very strange problem with one or two channels acting completely random. I'm thinking interference but will have to mess with the wires tomorrow to test this.

[heystew]

So far my best success has come from using the isolation power strips. I found the Tripp Lite IsoBlok that i've installed several places and it has helped dramatically.

Note that I have not yet finished all the troubleshooting I need to do to get closer to the root of the problem.