gspence Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 Hi, I'm using Sequence Editor 2.8.12 on Windows 7 and I've noticed a problem that is happening on several different sequences.I apply a set of timings based on the Beat Tool. As I'm programming the lights, starting and stopping throughout the sequence, everything is fine. But when I play the sequence from the beginning without stopping, the lights and the sound get off a beat after a couple of minutes. When I stop to try to fix it and play the song from halfway through, everything is lined up correctly.I've verified that this occurs on my actual light display as well, when running with the Scheduler.Has anyone had a similar problem and does anyone have any suggestions? I've tried creating a second timing track where I just run the beat wizard over the last couple minutes of a song to make sure the timings are correct and they always come out identical to the first set.It's really disappointing to get to the end of my track and all the lights are off by a beat. I guess I could find a random place in the song to insert a beat and try to correct it, but when I'm playing segments within the editor, it will seem off there.Hepl! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-klb- Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 Most likely you are using a variable bit rate mp3 file. Windows media player only approximates playback start positions in variable bit rate files. If you work against wav files, or constant bit rate files, you won't have this error. It should be well documented here in the forum, and the instructions for preparing audio files for use with LOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory402 Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 Get the program called "Audacity" (free). You can use it to convert your mp3's to wavs. After sequencing all my songs( in the wav format), just before show time I convert them back to mp3's to help get the sound quality back a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimswinder Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 You can also use Audacity to format your songs to a CONSTANT bit rate, and therefore remove the step of changing it to a WAV format then back to an MP3 for your show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iresq Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 Victory402 wrote: Get the program called "Audacity" (free). You can use it to convert your mp3's to wavs. After sequencing all my songs( in the wav format), just before show time I convert them back to mp3's to help get the sound quality back a little.+1 on audacity. Unless you have storage space limitations or are using the mp3 director, you can just keep your songs as wav. Converting them back to mp3's will not improve sound quality. Your sound quality will be very close to your original source and probably more than good enough for an animated display. Not much critical listening during the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gspence Posted October 26, 2010 Author Share Posted October 26, 2010 Thanks for the replies. After I made this post I came across another MP3 file that was apparenly using a variable bit-rate and the problem was much worse. No matter where I started the sequence mid-way through, it never lined up.I already had Audacity installed so I used it to convert the file to a higher, constant bit-rate and that solved the problem. So I'll go back and do that with all my files and see if this solves the other problem I was having.I also checked the help files for the sequence editor to see if they had any recommendations for the media file format, bit-rate, etc., but was disappointed to not find anything. Making sure that the file is a constant bit-rate is pretty important and should definitely be in the docs somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iresq Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 If you are going MP3 route I would recommend 128kbps, constant bit rate. I know many will suggest higher which is OK. But, unless you are doing something other than broadcasting via FM and/or small speakers out front, I doubt anyone will hear any difference with a higher bit rate. Also, your audio quality is only going to be as high as your source material. Converting 128 files to 320 will do nothing to improve the sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gspence Posted October 26, 2010 Author Share Posted October 26, 2010 iresq wrote: If you are going MP3 route I would recommend 128kbps, constant bit rate. I know many will suggest higher which is OK. But, unless you are doing something other than broadcasting via FM and/or small speakers out front, I doubt anyone will hear any difference with a higher bit rate. Also, your audio quality is only going to be as high as your source material. Converting 128 files to 320 will do nothing to improve the sound.Yep, 128k would be fine as far as sound quality goes. However, I tried upconverting a few of them to 256k, not to improve the sound quality, but to see if the higher bit-rate would make the timing more accurate. I'm not sure if it helped or not, but disk space isn't an issue so its worth a shot. I'll probably just try converting them all to WAV files so they aren't compressed at all. This should provide the most accurate timing.Hopefully this will fix the issue I'm having with long audio files. I'll post a follow-up after I'm done.Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Simmons Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 gspence wrote: I also checked the help files for the sequence editor to see if they had any recommendations for the media file format, bit-rate, etc., but was disappointed to not find anything. Making sure that the file is a constant bit-rate is pretty important and should definitely be in the docs somewhere.You must have not checked in the right place. Try the support tab on LOR's home page.http://lightorama.com/Support-RippingMP3s.htmlhttp://lightorama.com/PDF/Audacity_Lame_128Kbps.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gspence Posted October 26, 2010 Author Share Posted October 26, 2010 George Simmons wrote: gspence wrote: I also checked the help files for the sequence editor to see if they had any recommendations for the media file format, bit-rate, etc., but was disappointed to not find anything. Making sure that the file is a constant bit-rate is pretty important and should definitely be in the docs somewhere.You must have not checked in the right place. Try the support tab on LOR's home page.http://lightorama.com/Support-RippingMP3s.htmlhttp://lightorama.com/PDF/Audacity_Lame_128Kbps.pdfThank you! I admit I could have dug a bit more. I only looked in the Help section for the Sequence Editor and was hoping to find something in the area where it referenced choosing a Media file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-Paul Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 I am not sure just what you are doing, but you might also be like me, lazy. Not meant to offend so hang in there for a minute. I started doing this in Jan of 09 myself and I am not a student of music. So, I learned one thing quickly when I started out and was lazy and taking a short cut. I thought that once I had the timing for a beat and I was going to keep repeating a seq for that beat, that I would copy and past through out the whole song. Boy did I learn something. Sometimes those beats are a guy on a drum, and he might start off with a good steady beat, but about half way through the song he starts to slow down some, some will speed up wanting to finish the song.Now more than likely it is a variable bit rate issue. But if you are doing like I did, then it is possible the beat has actually slowed down or sped up and you have to make allowances for the human error factor.Just thought I would bring this HEF up as a possible factor with your issue. Esp if you and I are alike in our programming style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gspence Posted October 26, 2010 Author Share Posted October 26, 2010 Max-Paul wrote: I am not sure just what you are doing, but you might also be like me, lazy. Not meant to offend so hang in there for a minute. I started doing this in Jan of 09 myself and I am not a student of music. So, I learned one thing quickly when I started out and was lazy and taking a short cut. I thought that once I had the timing for a beat and I was going to keep repeating a seq for that beat, that I would copy and past through out the whole song. Boy did I learn something. Sometimes those beats are a guy on a drum, and he might start off with a good steady beat, but about half way through the song he starts to slow down some, some will speed up wanting to finish the song.Now more than likely it is a variable bit rate issue. But if you are doing like I did, then it is possible the beat has actually slowed down or sped up and you have to make allowances for the human error factor.Just thought I would bring this HEF up as a possible factor with your issue. Esp if you and I are alike in our programming style.I'm with ya. In my case, this wasn't the problem. My issue were that beats were on when played in sections but off when played straight through from the beginning. I'm pretty convinced this is a bit-rate issue now, so I'll try using Audacity to make sure the files are clean.As far as what you're talking about, I've encountered that too. The beat wizard works great in some cases, but not all. I'll normally start with the beat wizard and create a timing track for the entire song. If I find that part-way through it starts to get off, I'll either generate a new beat timing with a sub-section of the song, or use the tap wizard.This is my first year working with LOR but I've already sequenced 9 songs for a Halloween party and will start doing my Christmas songs in a couple of weeks. I'm the lead programmer on a popular MMO computer game as well as someone who has been playing piano/guitar/drums since about 8 years old, so this kind of thing is right up my alley. When I was in high school I did sound and lights for several years in our theater productions. I'm now 36 and wondering why I waited so long to get into this hobby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimswinder Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 gspence wrote: This is my first year working with LOR but I've already sequenced 9 songs for a Halloween party and will start doing my Christmas songs in a couple of weeks.Guys like you just make me sick!!! I've been at it since January!!!! Hey..since you have so much SPARE time...wanna do a few songs for me?!?!?! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gspence Posted October 26, 2010 Author Share Posted October 26, 2010 jimswinder wrote: gspence wrote: This is my first year working with LOR but I've already sequenced 9 songs for a Halloween party and will start doing my Christmas songs in a couple of weeks.Guys like you just make me sick!!! I've been at it since January!!!! Hey..since you have so much SPARE time...wanna do a few songs for me?!?!?! lolHahaha. No kids yet, so that leaves a little more time for hobbies. I saw that LOR allows submissions for songs where the author can get royalties. That had me scratching my chin for sure but I'd really want to know what type of sales volume they typically have for a song before diving into it for a little extra cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimswinder Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 gspence wrote:Hahaha. No kids yet, so that leaves a little more time for hobbies. No kids and no wife here...so LOTS of time to spend on this....hobby... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boborino Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 ARRRRRRRRRGh.. I can't believe I've never searched for this thread before! This is my second year with LOR. I've just always thought it was a 'bug' with trying to start in the middle of a song during edit. I've never been able to line up sequences or work on them in 1/2 time and have the timing be right. If I use the tapper tool and don't start at the very beginning, I was always off by like 1/2 a second. I've used MP3 files for every sequence. I use GoldWave for my audio editor. I checked and all my MP3's show to be constant bit rate, but I still have the issue.Today I loaded them in Goldwave and saved them as a WAV file then opened the sequences and switched media files. Then went 1/2 way into a sequence (play from selection). Low and behold, the wave form actually lines up with the audio I hear and the light sequences. The only way I've been able to do this in the past was starting the entire sequence from the begining each time. Man.. what a dope I've been.Ok.. should I just keep everything in WAV format, or switch back to MP3 for performance? I didn't really notice an issue last year while the show was running, but now I wonder if those few times that I thought it was out of sync, it was just using odd MP3 files? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimswinder Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Doesn't really matter which you use for your performance (WAV or MP3)..they will both work fine.Only difference is the size of the files...WAV is MUCH larger than an MP3.I personally switch back to my MP3 for the shows...in my feeble mind, a smaller file will have less chance of "hanging up" on playback... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medman2000 Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Ok sorry a little confused - so timings/waveform can still be "off" when using constant bit rate, but they won't be off with WAV format? 4 years now, and I thought I just sucked at getting the timings down (like, "I'm SURE that was perfectly aligned, why on earth is it off now??"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boborino Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 I don't know for sure Medman, but that has been my experience. I guess it has something to do with using Windows Media to play the files. I went back and tested a song I had done last year, and using the wav file and starting about 3/4 way through, I used the tapper tool for a few measures. Sure enough, they were right on beat when I went back and played them. I've never been able to get that right using MP3 files. And I double checked to be sure the file said constant bit rate in the properties.. I dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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