Chris A Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 I am building enclosures using receptacles instead of the dangle cordsets. I am hoping to save some room and wire. I would like to share neutrals on the receptacles. How many receptacles can I share neutrals with? I am building 32 channel enclosures. I use all LED. I am pulling 4 amps on one controller, all other controllers are pulling less amps.Thanks, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-Paul Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 How many hot leads do you have coming into your enclosure? I would just to stay on the safe side. Keep your neutrals paired with the hot lead. So, if you only have one hot feeding both sides of a board, then I would use a common neutral to feed all of the 16 outlets. And if you have only one hot lead for 4 boards, then I think you can safely feed all 64 outlets with the same neutral.And if you do have multi boards in one enclosure. Then I would have a master fuse for it all too. Put it right after the hot lead enters the enclosure before any control board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted July 9, 2010 Author Share Posted July 9, 2010 Ok. Each board has one power cord with the neutrals paired. I'm more concerned with each channel. Where each channel has a black and white wire. I am assuming I need to bring one black wire from each channel to each receptacle. What is the least amount of white wires can I get away with (while being safe). I am assuming I can use white wires from receptacle to receptacle and bring some back to the board.Thanks, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimswinder Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Max-Paul wrote:And if you do have multi boards in one enclosure. Then I would have a master fuse for it all too. Put it right after the hot lead enters the enclosure before any control board.Hey Max...what size fuse would you recommend?I will have both 64 and 48 channels in single enclosures and using one power source.I also will just have LED's, and for the most part just one string (100 ct being the most) per channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Chris A wrote: I am assuming I need to bring one black wire from each channel to each receptacle. What is the least amount of white wires can I get away with (while being safe). I am assuming I can use white wires from receptacle to receptacle and bring some back to the board.I built several enclosures with 1 16-channel board each and 8 duplex outlets (the kind you have in the walls in your house). Duplex outlets have tabs on the hot and neutral sides that break off so electricians can wire the top outlet to the light switch and the bottom outlet always on. These enclosures are Rubbermaid boxes that are big enough for 1 controller and 8 outlets.I removed the tab on the hot side of each outlet. I then ran 2 black wires and 1 white wire to each outlet.The big reason I ran a separate white wire to each duplex outlet is that it gets messy when you wrap 2 wires on a single screw (which I was forced to do for the ground connections).My outlets are just 2 inches from the board, so your situation may be different. If your controller board is further away, I would run 1 white wire for each 8 channels. Since you're using LEDs, current capacity is not an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted July 9, 2010 Author Share Posted July 9, 2010 Steven wrote: Chris A wrote: I am assuming I need to bring one black wire from each channel to each receptacle. What is the least amount of white wires can I get away with (while being safe). I am assuming I can use white wires from receptacle to receptacle and bring some back to the board.I built several enclosures with 1 16-channel board each and 8 duplex outlets (the kind you have in the walls in your house). Duplex outlets have tabs on the hot and neutral sides that break off so electricians can wire the top outlet to the light switch and the bottom outlet always on. These enclosures are Rubbermaid boxes that are big enough for 1 controller and 8 outlets.I removed the tab on the hot side of each outlet. I then ran 2 black wires and 1 white wire to each outlet.The big reason I ran a separate white wire to each duplex outlet is that it gets messy when you wrap 2 wires on a single screw (which I was forced to do for the ground connections).My outlets are just 2 inches from the board, so your situation may be different. If your controller board is further away, I would run 1 white wire for each 8 channels. Since you're using LEDs, current capacity is not an issue.Hi Steven,That is what I wanted to know. I am using the same duplex outlets with the hot tabs broken off. When you tie in 4 duplex outlets can you just run a white wire from duplex 1 to duplex 2 to 3 to 4 then one wire back to the LOR board? I am assuming either screw on the neutral side of the duplex will work since that tab is not broken off.I did the same thing for the ground connections but I crimped on a spade terminal which went on the screw much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Chris A wrote: When you tie in 4 duplex outlets can you just run a white wire from duplex 1 to duplex 2 to 3 to 4 then one wire back to the LOR board? I am assuming either screw on the neutral side of the duplex will work since that tab is not broken off.If you are wiring a house, up to code, you are not supposed to use both screw terminals, because current is not supposed to pass into and back out of the back of the outlet.However, that rule is for 20A circuits with heaters and electric blankets and other high-current stuff. In an external case that's powering Christmas lights, it's perfectly safe to chain 4 outlets together like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-Paul Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 jimswinder wrote: Max-Paul wrote:And if you do have multi boards in one enclosure. Then I would have a master fuse for it all too. Put it right after the hot lead enters the enclosure before any control board.Hey Max...what size fuse would you recommend?I will have both 64 and 48 channels in single enclosures and using one power source.I also will just have LED's, and for the most part just one string (100 ct being the most) per channel.Hi Jim,Never mind, It was before my 2nd cup of coffee when I wrote that. The breaker in the CB box will protect the feeder, feeding your enclosure. I was out in left field.Sorry friend my bad.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve synek Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 Steven wrote: If you are wiring a house, up to code, you are not supposed to use both screw terminals, because current is not supposed to pass into and back out of the back of the outlet.However, that rule is for 20A circuits with heaters and electric blankets and other high-current stuff. In an external case that's powering Christmas lights, it's perfectly safe to chain 4 outlets together like that.StevenAs an electrical Inspector, I have to correct you. There is nothing wrong using the screws on a receptacle to feed current through to the next receptacle on a single circuit per the National Electrical Code. (This applies to both the black and white wires on your typical 12/2 or 14/2 Romex wiring.) This does not apply to multi wire circuits typically found when using 12/3 romex type wiring (black, red, white conductors). I found out the hard way on this one. I let the magic smoke out of a few office computers when working in an office ceiling as a rookie electrician. I accidentally opened a neutral connection for a multi wire circuit. Connecting more than one wire to a screw is not permitted unless specifically part of the installation instructions (I have never seen a listing for more than one wire per screw on a receptacle). Not permitted is making a splice in the grounding (green or bare wire) conductor at the receptacle connection. Making a splice at the green screw of the receptacle is recognized as a problem should the receptacle need to be replaced or become damaged. All outlets down stream could be energized and not have the required grounding due to a break in grounding continuity. The required way to wire a receptacle is to have a green wire connection that allows the receptacle to be replaced/removed without breaking the continuity to down stream outlets. Nothing prohibits a continuous conductor, with insulation stripped as needed, for the connection to the screw of receptacles. Blaaa….blaaaa…. blaaaa……….the code is a minimum and looping may not be the best design-especially if you have to trouble shoot a problem. Sorry for going on so long in detail. The bottom line is, wire this altogether and plug in a 2 prong male plug!!!! You decide on the risk!! Back to the OP. I looped 8 controllers with a single #16 Awg neutral last year. Then I grouped 8 channels per controller with a shared neutral run to 4 duplex receptacles and had no problems. I use all LEDS. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanward Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Open neutral is downright dangerous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgardner518 Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 I have a different question? What are people using to label the dangles? I see what looks like small strips of white wrapped around the ends, but cannot make out what they are? I know they would need to be waterproof. Any ideas? I wrote on them with a black sharpie, but in the dark, its hard to see the numbers. See picture of someones I found online. Who's, IDKRay Attached files Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimswinder Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 ny_yankee_25 wrote: I wrote on them with a black sharpie, but in the dark, its hard to see the numbers. See picture of someones I found online. Who's, IDKI use SPT-2 and Vampire plugs for my dongles so all my vampire plugs are painted the color of the string of lights (Red, Blue, White...no need to paint the Green Ones)...then on the top of the Vampire plug I put what Channel they are (IE; 31-1, 18-5, 2-16, etc).I also do the same for the Male plug on my Light Strings...all painted with their color and ID'd with what channels they plug into...some also have a second number, like my Mega Tree or Weber Tree where the light strings are in sequential order going around the tree (Channel Number on top and sequence number on bottom) IE, 1, 2,3,4, etc.Your comment about them being hard to see in the dark...I set up during the day!! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott T Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 ny_yankee_25 wrote:I have a different question? What are people using to label the dangles? I see what looks like small strips of white wrapped around the ends, but cannot make out what they are? I know they would need to be waterproof. Any ideas? I wrote on them with a black sharpie, but in the dark, its hard to see the numbers. See picture of someones I found online. Who's, IDKRayGet a silver paint pen at Wal-mart. I think they were in the craft area. About $2-3... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffandnicole Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 ny_yankee_25 wrote: I have a different question? What are people using to label the dangles? I see what looks like small strips of white wrapped around the ends, but cannot make out what they are? I know they would need to be waterproof. Any ideas? I wrote on them with a black sharpie, but in the dark, its hard to see the numbers. See picture of someones I found online. Who's, IDKRayWhen you buy the completed ready-to-use 1602w unit , the stickers are already on the dangles.Alternatively, some people have purchased labels at electronic supply stores.I have used sheets of small Avery return address labels, using MS Word and typing the number onto the label. This works fairly well, although some of the labels may fall off over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGabriel Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 A silver sharpie is all I use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfing4Dough Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 ny_yankee_25 wrote: I have a different question? What are people using to label the dangles? I see what looks like small strips of white wrapped around the ends, but cannot make out what they are? I know they would need to be waterproof. Any ideas? I wrote on them with a black sharpie, but in the dark, its hard to see the numbers. See picture of someones I found online. Who's, IDKRayLast year made my own, and printed numbered labels, and covered with clear packing tape. This year for new controllers I am going to be trying a silver sharpie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne K Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 I use my P-Touch label maker with a 1/2" tape in it and I set the label up as 1--1--1--1--1--1 or 2--2--2--2--2--2 and so on. Then I cut it about 1 1/2" long or so and trim off the end that will be on the outside of the wrap a little and then wrap it several times around the wire. This has worked good for me for a couple of years nowWayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgardner518 Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 Wayne K wrote: I use my P-Touch label maker with a 1/2" tape in it and I set the label up as 1--1--1--1--1--1 or 2--2--2--2--2--2 and so on. Then I cut it about 1 1/2" long or so and trim off the end that will be on the outside of the wrap a little and then wrap it several times around the wire. This has worked good for me for a couple of years nowWayneThanks Wayne. I like this idea. I have a p-touch machine myself. I never thought of that! Thats Why I ask these questions. Thanks Again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizmomkr Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 The p-touch is ok, but If you really want something to last- I would recomend a wire marker label device. P touch labels are very limited in size (and they fall off unless taped over)Brady makes a nice unit thats pretty cheap, compared to similar from panduit. Its Called the ID Pal.You can get tape thats very wide - over an inch I think. it also comes in a variety of colors and materials. The labels print quick and clean, you can change the font size, it even has a "auto" number advance - If you are printing the same thing, but adding "1" at hte end, it can do it for you. for example "Tree section 1" will auto advance to "section 2" " section 3"I really like mine, use it all the time and highly recomend. Attached files Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-Paul Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 The following is only a suggestion for those of us who use the PC controllers that have the Quick Connects or aka stake ons. I have put all of my IDs within about 1-2" of the QC terminal. If left outside of the box either weather or UVs from the sun might fade the printing. Thus I have done it so that the labels are inside of the box.Just a little reminder / suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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