Can I use Cat5 as an extension cord?

[javerill]

On each of my windows I have four different colors of lights. Only one (100 count) set of each. Int he past I have used four extension cords to each.

I have been told that cat5 could handle the amps of a single set of lights. Does this sound right?



Thanks

Jim

[ErnieHorning]

Warning! Danger! Danger!

Will it work? It might… But don’t do it!

Though each wire is rated at a maximum of .577 amps per wire, the insulation being only .245 mm (0.0096 in) is only rated to 60 volts. If I remember right, the current goes down to around .1 amps if all 8 wires are used because of mutual heating of bundled wires.

On the positive side, I heard this stuff will tolerate 2 amps before it lights on fire.

[jimswinder]

A lot of people use Molex connectors for those applications.

[edvas69]

It appears that using cat5 cable with low voltage low current applications will work (eg; 12VDC LED Rainbow wall runners and other low voltage LED lights). In theses applications it would be OK. If your using lights that run on mains supply (110V/240V) then definetly do not use CAT5, the insulation is not designed to carry that voltage. If your using incandecents then again the current draw will end up being to high for the CAT5 to handle. Remember CAT5 is only good for low voltage low current applications and thats why you would have seen it being used.

[Ponddude]

Please understand that the Rainbow Wall Runners I sell draw very little current, only about 160mA @ 12 volts. They also are not utlizing all the wires in the bundle. This is what makes Cat 5 cable a viable option for the RWRs application. Even still, I am with Ernie and highly suggest that you do not use the cable for anything over 12 volts.

[FireMedic4Christ]

It will work, but be careful how much you load the Cat5. Since you posted in the DIY forum, I will assume you are somewhat comfortable making your own props and all that it entails. . . (ie - a certain amount of risk)

I did this in the burst part of my "fireworks" last year but with only 50 lights and never always all on. You can always run a test sequence now and try it. I ran my test for several hours in the heat of the day with all lights on and had no issues. After that, I figured at night with only part of the lights on would be okay.

Like others have stated and I am sure more will chime in. "DO AT YOUR OWN RISK", it can be fatal.

Brian

[George Simmons]

FireMedic4Christ wrote:

Like others have stated and I am sure more will chime in. "DO AT YOUR OWN RISK", it can be fatal.

I'm not enough of an expert to have an educated opinion, nor do I wish to offend anyone who is, but I have a question. And even though I'm entirely in favor of stupid people eliminating themselves from the gene pool, I'm still going to ask: What perceived benefit would compel someone to even THINK of using cat5 as an extension cord? Isn't that kind of like using gasoline to light charcoal?

[edvas69]

George Simmons wrote:

FireMedic4Christ wrote:

Like others have stated and I am sure more will chime in. "DO AT YOUR OWN RISK", it can be fatal.

I'm not enough of an expert to have an educated opinion, nor do I wish to offend anyone who is, but I have a question. And even though I'm entirely in favor of stupid people eliminating themselves from the gene pool, I'm still going to ask: What perceived benefit would compel someone to even THINK of using cat5 as an extension cord? Isn't that kind of like using gasoline to light charcoal?

In situations where you are using rgb LED fixtures then you require a multicore cable (4 cores) for each light strip/flood that you need to control. CAT5 cable is much cheaper than using other mulitcore options but it has its limitations. As long as you are running 12VDC LEDs/Floods with low current requirements then using CAT5 is a cheap and viable option which works well.

[Max-Paul]

As someone else said and I have not verified this. The jackets on the individual wires are only rated for 60 volts. Meaning that if you run a higher voltage, you run the risk that the jacket will break down and allow the voltage to arc through the jacket. This is known as a short, shorts cause heat, heat causes fires, fires burn down houses. Fires also kill people.

Once a person is informed that a hair brained idea can cause fires and possible death and yet proceed to do hair brained ideas get no symathy (SP? spell checker will not load on work computer) from me. What's that saying about being cheap and foolish?

[melwelch]

Just a FYI.... We use POE (Power Over Ethernet) all the time.... To power phones, Access Points, etc.

Here is that big BUT you have to be very careful with the current you are drawing.... Do I recomend it for Christmas lights?.... No.... But then again I say no to the worship of GFIs too...

[javerill]

Okay, I get the picture. It might work but is it worth the risk?


Does anyone have any other ideas? I want to eleminate four extension cords going to each window.

Thanks

[melwelch]

It is expensive but CCRs have only a power and network cables.... FYI... You got to live with the 4 extention cords....

When the RGB stuff comes of age then you will have a solution...

[Terry Hurrle]

The first reply you received is the best way to do it.

[melwelch]

Yep cheap extention cords are the way to go... not

The next thing you will be doing is adding GFIs to compensate for the faulty wiring. Do not cut corners on the extention cords...

[ErnieHorning]

Depending on how much current you’re using now, you could eliminate one cord. Use two SPT cords to carry the four hot’s and one SPT cord (with both wires tied together) to carry the neutral. It would be a fair amount of work and would it be worth your time just to save one cord?



You could also do something similar with just two 3-wire cords, but again the time and labor.



Staying with LOR products, you could also use a DC controller and send 5 volt signals through CAT5 and use remotely placed SSR modules. This would depend on your electrical ability though.

[Max-Paul]

Well it is clear that you want to do this in one cable. And Cat 5 is not a solution. I am lucky that here in St. Louis we have a surplus electronics outlet called Gateway Electronics. I think that there is also one in AZ. I dont know if you have one near where you live. If you have any kind of surplus electronics place near by I highly suggest that you drop by and see if they have any control cables that have 8 conductors. Or 5 conductors with large enough gauge wire that one of them can handle all of the current that the other 4 will be conducting. I believe you said that it would be 4 circuits of 100 ct lights. So that is what abt .25 amps? So, I think you should be able to get by with 20 ga wire. While your there, check it out and see if they have molex connectors and pick them up at the same time.

Otherwise go on line and buy from a vendor that carries what you need.

[-klb-]

melwelch wrote:

Yep cheap extention cords are the way to go...  not

The next thing you will be doing is adding GFIs to compensate for the faulty wiring.  Do not cut corners on the extention cords... 

Interesting interpretation.. Following National Electric Code = cutting corners.... Would have figured that not using GFCI, in violation of NEC would be cutting corners...

NEC does not ask for grounded extension cords for ungrounded appliances. I have asked, and still not heard any advantages to using grounded cords for ungrounded appliances. Still wondering what corners are being cut by using ungrounded cords?

I am also interested in hearing evidence that running grounded cords without GFCI is less likely to have faults in the ungrounded lighting that is connected? And how exactly are you going to know when you do have current leaking from your strings of lights to earth ground?

GFCI, or not, you need to understand the limitations and possible faults of the system you are using. While you have pointed out several likely issues with GFCI, you have not provided any evidence of how using grounded cords on ungrounded lighting appliances without GFCI makes you any safer. I think you are the one cutting corners on safety.

[-klb-]

There do exist fully appropriate solutions to running a single cord. For example, Belden 27086A is 8 conductor, 14 gauge cord, with 600V ratings. This way, you can run 4 fully isolated 14 gauge circuits in a single jacket, and either terminate in standard nema connectors, or suitable molex connectors.

There are probably cheaper variants available, for example dropping to less than 14 gauge, preferably with suitable fuse protection.

One more example, Belden 1039A, 4 pair (8 conductor) 16 gauge, 600V rated cable...

[toddmoon]

Time, money, distance, risk? Saving some time / space on power cords verses risking your investment in lights and electronics?

The regulations that have come about on electrical codes and safety have come about because people have died for various reasons that have now brought about the regulations that we have.

I would not risk my family, my home, my electronics on CAT5 wire. Yes low voltage items are used and if you are using 12 volt lights you would be ok. Otherwise is it really worth the risk?

[jimswinder]

Very well said Jeff...

Thanks...