High Failure rate of LED's (what do you think)

[Ralph A]

I have been running LED's since 2010.  I understand that this is still a young technology.  However, I wanted to ask those of you that have a greater understanding than I  a question.

 

I have  a lawn string grid that has 24 lights of each color.  All the strings come from the same vendor.  My show has been running since December 4th, and runs about 22 minuets. These strings operate about a total of 3 to 4 minuets per show.  There not on long. Since that time I have had 5 strings fail. The are C-6 Green LED's.  There are all brand new. None of the other colors have failed but one.    I sent and request to the vendor (will not name them for now) and they stated that the Green LED's are more sensitive and I'm straining the lights by operating them at 100% and to back off to 80% and they will last longer.  What?  I believe these were designed to operate at 110vdc.  They should last much, much longer than this!!  I believe that it can be true that when you turn on the current it may have a little spike at first and then even out.  However this should be taken into  consideration when they are being designed to operate at 110vdc.

 

What do you think about this and what have the rest of you experienced with your LED's?

 

Thanks, and Merry Christmas!!

[George Simmons]

I think it sounds pretty crappy.  I agree with you - the lights are being sold to operate on 120v and they should.  Period.

 

Is it the voltage though?  Or is it related to the paces we put them through?  Although no vendor has ever said this before, and I'm 99.6% certain I'd have heard of it.

 

Sounds to me like the vendor (or maybe more properly- the mfgr.) is trying to pile BS on top of garbage and hope that the second layer masks the stink of the first. 

 

Please keep us posted, especially as to how the vendor handles things.  Our warranty is through them.

[Ralph A]

I would agree with that George!  I have bought lights from; Action Lighting, LED Holiday Lighting (I don't recommend them at all. When Travis owned it I lost $1,000) CDI, Holiday Light Express, Magic in the Sky and a few more.  I've never heard of this but want to be patience and see what see what comes of this.

 

I will let you know what happens with the vender as well as the rest of the lights!

[Surfing4Dough]

So are the failing lights from one of the vendors you mentioned?

I have a bunch of greens from HLE starting last year without a single failure yet.

[Ralph A]

So are the failing lights from one of the vendors you mentioned?

I have a bunch of greens from HLE starting last year without a single failure yet.

Yes, but to be fair I want to withhold that information for now.  I want to see what others have experienced for themselves and see what you have to say.  I will send them in for a replacement after the season, but for now it is a bit of a problem.

 

Great to hear that you have had good luck with HLE.  That's good to know.  Thanks you!

[plasmadrive]

I bought a bunch of cases of lights from HLE this year and last.  I have had one string of green pop the fuses the first time I plugged it in.. I have had 2 Red LEDs and 1 green LED on other strings with infant mortality..    They immediately replaced all those string no questions asked..  So guess where I buy ALL my LED strings?? 

[indi]

I've only bought 4 cases from HLE, and have had no problems so far,"knock on wood". I plan to get another 4 cases later this year.

[gc75067]

i am having problems with the first half 1/3 of a string i bought from one of those vendors.  they simply dont light up but the 2nd 2/3 do.  these were ordered a couple of months ago and have probably been used maybe 10 nights or less.  i will be sending them a message soon to see what they have to say..rest of what i bought from this particular vendor are fine though

[SparkDr]

I have the same C6 green LED issue that you speak of and have no problem naming the vendor (HLE).  I was burning through a string a night for the first 4 nights of my show by experiencing partial string failure where sections would go out.  It was always the green strands (I bought red, blue, and white as well) and it was not confined to any particular length of string.  I'm not sure if this is relevant or not, but every failure has happened down-line in the string.  Never once has a section gone out nearest to the male plug end of the string, although this may be simply due to the limited sample size of my lights.  I also received the same response as you regarding sensitivity and intensity.  With instructions from Earle Talley in hand, I set my controller to the minimum setting (I can't recall if it's 86% or 87%).  Since that time I have only had one additional failure and that was just the night before last.  In every case, Brian at HLE has provided no charge replacements in a jiffy.  On a related note, one of the strings with a section out actually came back to life on it's own before I got a chance to get up there the following evening to replace it & it has been running fine ever since.  Because I am an electrician, I took a voltage reading on the output side of the controller just out of curiosity and found I am putting out a fairly consistent 116v from each dongle and seeing no voltage drop at the end of my extension cords as they are no more than 40' in any instance.  I also reached out to CDI to get their thoughts or experiences on the issue and Paul (I think?) was very helpful as well.  For whatever it's worth, he does not support the info I received from HLE regarding sensitivity & intensity and assured me I would not have the problem with lights purchased from CDI.  As a newbie with plans to expand next year, I went ahead and placed an order with CDI right then & there.  As of now, I am a happy customer of both CDI & HLE and I expect to purchase from both again in the coming year.  Customer service has been fantastic at both vendors thus far and I am truly wowed by the pop and flash these lights provide to my display.

[Santas Helper]

I have purchased from CDI since 2006. I've purchased many many cases for several years of all colors and different lengths of C6 LEDs.

Havent had any issues and still using LEDs from 2006.

I know a few years ago there was an issue of a certain manufacturer's strands and once it was brought up to Paul at CDI from several customers, Paul honored any request to swap out the defective strands without question. I exchanged 2 cases without even opening them because of that certain production. CDI take the bull by the horns and corrected it right off the bat. That's true costumer care

Again, that was several years ago and hasn't happened since.

 

So just to add, sometimes there can be bad batches of LEDs from the manufacturers from a new design flaw or what ever and the vendor may not be aware of it until after many orders are sent out. But it all depends on how that vendor takes care of the customers/problems. Some could care less and make up an excuse (like use less power). That's a bunch of crap right there.

 

And one more thing. I wished folks wouldn't "hide" the vendors name that's having problems. That's not helping us at all. We need to know these things.

[Mark J. M.]

I have been using LEDs from CDI amd MITS for the last few years(6?). Only had two failures in that time, one the first half failed and the other was automatic fuse blowing. Both were replaced. I will not talk about my failure rate for replaceable LEDs as that has been very high and I do not recommend purchasing that type of LED string. This year however, I have had eight strings bought this year fail and it seems the green and red were more than the others. The lengths varied so I just think I may have received a bad batch of lights but their replacements are on there way with only questions about how they failed(fuse, half string, weather) not how I was using them. I agree customer service is great for the two companies I have used and I have heard nothing but good reports about HLE although I have not purchased from them myself.

[Ralph A]

I have the same C6 green LED issue that you speak of and have no problem naming the vendor (HLE).  I was burning through a string a night for the first 4 nights of my show by experiencing partial string failure where sections would go out.  It was always the green strands (I bought red, blue, and white as well) and it was not confined to any particular length of string.  I'm not sure if this is relevant or not, but every failure has happened down-line in the string.  Never once has a section gone out nearest to the male plug end of the string, although this may be simply due to the limited sample size of my lights.  I also received the same response as you regarding sensitivity and intensity.  With instructions from Earle Talley in hand, I set my controller to the minimum setting (I can't recall if it's 86% or 87%).  Since that time I have only had one additional failure and that was just the night before last.  In every case, Brian at HLE has provided no charge replacements in a jiffy.  On a related note, one of the strings with a section out actually came back to life on it's own before I got a chance to get up there the following evening to replace it & it has been running fine ever since.  Because I am an electrician, I took a voltage reading on the output side of the controller just out of curiosity and found I am putting out a fairly consistent 116v from each dongle and seeing no voltage drop at the end of my extension cords as they are no more than 40' in any instance.  I also reached out to CDI to get their thoughts or experiences on the issue and Paul (I think?) was very helpful as well.  For whatever it's worth, he does not support the info I received from HLE regarding sensitivity & intensity and assured me I would not have the problem with lights purchased from CDI.  As a newbie with plans to expand next year, I went ahead and placed an order with CDI right then & there.  As of now, I am a happy customer of both CDI & HLE and I expect to purchase from both again in the coming year.  Customer service has been fantastic at both vendors thus far and I am truly wowed by the pop and flash these lights provide to my display.

 

Thank you for that informative post. Funny that my strings are going out at the halfway point closest to the male plug. Go figure.  I've also had the entire string go out. I too have lights from CDI, and your right Paul has great customer service.  I've had no trouble with his lights to date period, and I've been buying from him since 2009.  Thought I would try HLE.  I believe they offer a 3 year warranty.

I agree with George above, and Paul that they should not have to be lowered to 80%.  If they do then they are faulty!  I will talk to Brian to have all the fatally lights replaced at one time.

This brings up another point.  Many of us go through a lot, and I mean a lot of work to get the lights in props and trees and all sorts of places in our display.  The work involved in replacing them can be a real headache.  We want the best quality lights for what we do and most of us don't mind spending a little more money to get that quality.  If we keep having trouble with a particular manufacturer then we have to let the vendor know we need a better quality of light strings.  Just my opinion.

[Ralph A]

 

"I know a few years ago there was an issue of a certain manufacturer's strands and once it was brought up to Paul at CDI from several customers, Paul honored any request to swap out the defective strands without question. I exchanged 2 cases without even opening them because of that certain production. CDI take the bull by the horns and corrected it right off the bat. That's true costumer care

Again, that was several years ago and hasn't happened since".

 

I remember when this happened to Paul.  The manufacture produced a faulty product and Paul not only replaced all the bad lights but paid for it out of his own pocket.  As the manufacture said to bad so sad we will not reimburse you for the faulty lights.  It almost put him out of business.  He is someone that will honor his product and his word even when it is not his fault.

 

 

"And one more thing. I wished folks wouldn't "hide" the vendors name that's having problems. That's not helping us at all. We need to know these things."

 

It is not my intention to "hide" the vendor.  It is my intention to get a fair assessment of the product without skewing the results by my opinion right off the bat. I could be wrong in my assessment at first and do possible harm to the vendor by acting out of hast or misinformation.  I would reveal the vendor after a short period and after several post to acquire others opinions.  I will post the outcome and I am positive that HLE will with no problem replace the faulty strings. But for now I have several dark spots in my show. However I think I'm probably the only one that sees it.

I have been using LEDs from CDI amd MITS for the last few years(6?). Only had two failures in that time, one the first half failed and the other was automatic fuse blowing. Both were replaced. I will not talk about my failure rate for replaceable LEDs as that has been very high and I do not recommend purchasing that type of LED string. This year however, I have had eight strings bought this year fail and it seems the green and red were more than the others. The lengths varied so I just think I may have received a bad batch of lights but their replacements are on there way with only questions about how they failed(fuse, half string, weather) not how I was using them. I agree customer service is great for the two companies I have used and I have heard nothing but good reports about HLE although I have not purchased from them myself.

Thanks for the information!

[Santas Helper]

Ralph, I understand your feelings on this.

But getting others thoughts/experience from others doesn't make it a fair assessment of the product YOU are using and HOW you use them IMHO. Opinions from others is their own use of that product. I was only asking that letting others know of your experience of the product from the vendor you purchased goods from so we can be aware of it.

I thank you for including HLE as the vendor and if they honor their product AND their costumers, they will fix it to your satisfaction, and we should be able to hear it from you about that, since you let us know of this problem in the first place. I truly hope they do as I've heard great things about them although I have never dealt with them or their products.

I don't think it's about harming the vendor if they have a history of standing by their product AND their customers. After all, these vendors have LOTS of customers, not just us.

If you think you might harm a vendor, then work with them first before posting who others here use for vendors and their experience. 

It's like asking us if we have had problems with this vendor or that vendor but not admitting with what vendor or item you might have a problem with.

And this in only my opinion and nothing personal to what you were looking for.

 

And lastly, you did ask "what do you think about this?"

[JPat]

Interesting, as I too am having issues with green LED C9 bulbs.  I bought over 500 red/green bulbs this year and having issues with the green.  Each night I will have 3-5 random bulbs out in the green color, and have not had any red fail as of yet.  With my initial shipment, I had 24 green bulbs that were dead and would not illuminate.  My vendor has not been mentioned in this thread, but seems that green is an issue.

[Shadow62672]

3rd year with target/Walmart led lights. Only issues are rabbits. Simple fix.

[wicket82]

I also use the LED's from Wal-Mart and I am on my 3rd year using a lot of them. I did buy some sealed light strings from a local hardware store and have had nothing but problems with them. the cheaper ones from Wal-Mart seem to do better for. I have had some strings fail (half goes out) but maybe only 2 or 3 a year. And most of the time, It's a bulb where the contacts have rusted. Just change the bulb and they are as good as new.

[Surfing4Dough]

I have had fairly good luck with Walmart's M6 LED lights as well, other than sometimes some inconsistency with warm white color.  Figured the higher priced lights from the various on-line vendors mentioned here weren't worth the added cost...until I tried them.  My HLE lights are significantly brighter and bolder color than my Walmart lights (or any other locally bought LEDs I have had).  I was surprised to be honest. Plus can tell that the construction is higher quality, and will sustain wear and tear from use/abuse much better. No turning back for me now that I have seen the difference.

[holidaylightexpress]

HI guys

 

Sorry I just saw this thread unless I could have filled folks in here sooner.  But here is some general info on the Green c6's. 

 

1. Our strands are made in the same place as CDI and MITS strands, so there is no difference in quality. You are buying the same thing from either place. It's always been that way. You are just as likely to get a bad strand from them as you are from us. 

 

2. This year we had a higher fail rate on our green C6's,  It is mostly the 50 count that has the major issue. The interesting thing, is that the majority (90%) of the failures come from lights being used on controllers. 

 

3. In early Nov when I saw a few calls come in with high fail rates of 50 count green c6 on controllers, I went to work to solve the issue. Long story short, the easy fix is run your controllers at 80% max output (you can find the exact max output as it will vary a little). For LED's the max output is about 80% anyway, so you are not gaining anything by going all the way to 100%. Personal opinion: Your fades look nicer when you go from about 10% to 80% because after 80% you don't gain anything as well as under 10% (again personal opinion so no need to roast me on it)

 

4. The cause: It appears that we got some green C6's with some bad rectifiers. When they get surged a little, they fail. This is why you are seeing 1/2 strand failures in most cases. I've pulled back some of these strands from folks and LED keeper'd them to verify this as well. Again, we only see this on controller controlled lights. It's not a crazy high fail rate (a little over 3%), which is higher than the 0.5% I like to see. 

 

5. The solution: We have been replacing strands and recommending to folks they try running at ~80% intensity to prevent repeating the cycle. I get how much work you guys put into your displays, we used to do commercial installs, and it's a PITA changing things out. The 80% solution worked for me, it seems to work for everyone else that has tried it. Back in 2010 when LEDHL had issues with their greens, going to ~80% worked for people back then too. 

It's not an ideal solution, but it does appear to work. The last thing I want is to have folks re-do things to have them fail again. That is no fun at all. 

 

I do apologize that we didn't catch this before lighting season began. We do spot checking on a controller when lights come in, but obviously we can't check each one on a controller before we ship them out. Again, it's not every green C6 that is failing, it's just a little higher than normal. 

 

Happy New Year Everyone!

[Ralph A]

Thank you Brian for your post and the informative  response.

 

I wanted everyone to know that Brian at HLE, responded to my first request very quickly as he has all my responses. He agreed to ship out the replacement lights whenever was best for me, no questions asked.  As most of you stated above.  I know that things will happen from time to time and that is just the way it is in anything not just Christmas lights.  Looks like that is what happened here.  I appreciate HLE's fast response and good customer service.  I started this hobby (obsession) in 2007 and plan to be in it for some time. Not everyone has this level of service!  For those of you that remember Travis at LED Holiday Lighting, he is a perfect example of someone to stay away from. Terrible service and poor products, and he failed to deliver almost $1,000. of product to me as well as many of you.

 

I will continue to buy product from HLE without any hesitation.