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zenon vs led strobes


Dan Lott

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Going to use strobes this year and can't figure which way i want to go. I have read a lot of post about the led strobes but not sure about wich way to go. As I have read that many zenon strobes die during the year and less failure with led. I have read that all seam to get watter in them and to drill a hole on the bottom side and maybe some silicone work. I am thinking about 30 of them and i like the zenon as i think no matter wich way they are angled or layed on the roof or in the mega tree they will be bright from all angels. I worry about the led as they may not. I have no idea as never seen them in action but wanted to know from the people that have used them. Also what i did not like about the leds is that you have to "prime" them by turning them on softly a second sooner so they will flash random. Not a big deal but more of a hastle. I do like the power savings out of the leds as my display is a ton of c9s in three colors and this year will be adding more. I might be tapping out my power soon so that is another thing to think about. Just wanted to hear what others thoughts were on them and wich way i should buy in the pre sales. Thanks

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I've ordered and have both types. The Xenon seem to have many more issues with longevity and arriving in working condition, not to mention there is only one choice of color. In my opinion, that is offset by their superior performance. Order from a reliable source who guarantees in writing that they'll replace ones that arrive DOA. And then take the time to check each and every one when you get them and contact the source immediately with a count of how many you need to have replaced.

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You might actually be surprised about how efficient the Xenon strobes are as well. It is difficult to measure efficiency of one vs the other, but the Xenons draw far less power than a C9 incandescent. I honestly would not be surprised if they draw about what the LED strobes do.

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-klb- wrote:

You might actually be surprised about how efficient the Xenon strobes are as well. It is difficult to measure efficiency of one vs the other, but the Xenons draw far less power than a C9 incandescent. I honestly would not be surprised if they draw about what the LED strobes do.

If thats the case or close to that would really put the ball in the xenon stobes over the leds. I guess the only othere things is how much the fail or delived dead as goerge is saying. I just dont want to put the money into one and then wish i bought the other.
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Just for giggles last fall I tried measuring strobes with my Kill-A-Watt, but the draw changes so rapidly that the Kill-A-Watt wasn't able to respond quickly enough to give me any meaningful data. I'm guessing that Jeff Millard probably has test equipment that could measure it definitively, but I sure don't.

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From one batch, I think we had about 5 out of 225 DOA Xenon strobes this year. Unfortunately, I have not managed to go through and test to see how many died in use, and I'm not sure I will get to until we start set up...

In my case, I'm probably going to guess high on the failure count, and then have extra when there are not really that many failures. Considering the feedback we got on the strobes on the city park/firehouse, I'd keep replacing them even if the failure rate was as high as 20% per year.

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Dan Lott wrote:

I just dont want to put the money into one and then wish i bought the other.


That being the case, I'd definitely recommend getting the Xenon models. I've got about 80 LED strobes that I now wish I hadn't bought.

Kevin - did you guys drill weep holes?
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George Simmons wrote:



Kevin - did you guys drill weep holes?

I have never held these kind of strobes in my own hand. But by the looks the base is a sealed c9 socket onto the black base of the strobe. Then there is the cap that goes over the strobe wich i dont know if it snaps on the base or screws on If this is somewhat correct im wondering where there is water entering the stobe or is a condinsation problem where then the holes that people drill are for drainage. Like i said before i do not know a thing about these so i am trying to learn as much as possible before making a purchase.
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Here in Minnesota rain isn't very often a problem in December. In my case, last year and this year the issue is definitely condensation. Having said that, I'd sure like to know exactly what mechanism is responsible for why one strobe will collect moisture and one three inches away and in an identical situation and orientation, won't.

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George Simmons wrote:

Kevin - did you guys drill weep holes?


We did not. Mostly, as it was logistically difficult to predict which way they would be oriented as installed, not time effective to put in weep holes once they are installed, and that they would be rather unlikely to be oriented the same way the following year.

One thing that we did go out of our way to do was limit the length of exposure as much as convenient. While the C7 bulbs in the natural trees were one of the first things put up in the whole display, the strobes in the trees were one of the last things installed, nearly a month later, and the strobes on the firehouse were only installed about a week earlier.
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-klb- wrote:

While the C7 bulbs in the natural trees were one of the first things put up in the whole display, the strobes in the trees were one of the last things installed, nearly a month later, and the strobes on the firehouse were only installed about a week earlier.

Do you use C7 strobes? How do they compare to the C9's?
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Dan Lott wrote:

I have never held these kind of strobes in my own hand. But by the looks the base is a sealed c9 socket onto the black base of the strobe. Then there is the cap that goes over the strobe wich i dont know if it snaps on the base or screws on If this is somewhat correct im wondering where there is water entering the stobe or is a condinsation problem where then the holes that people drill are for drainage. Like i said before i do not know a thing about these so i am trying to learn as much as possible before making a purchase.


Two screws attach the lens to the body. A thin bead of sealant is between these two elements on all the strobes I have seen in the last two years, but may not be there on older ones. Then there is sealant wiped over where the screw heads are recessed into the body.

On the ones I acquired in 2008, the C9 threaded base was simply press fit onto a splined section of the body, with no sealant. This provides a wonderful way for air to vent in and out during temperature and pressure changes, to provide plenty of wet air to condense inside the lens or body. I have also seen quite a range of install quality of the sealant, so that is a possible entry point as well.

It is possible that the 2010 versions may have a slightly longer stem, and moulded threads in the plastic, that the C9 base will thread over. I believe that while this is still not perfect, it is at least a step up over the press fit spline. I would think that on either, wiping a bead of silicone on the seam between the body and threaded base could improve the survival rate of either design.
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George Simmons wrote:

-klb- wrote:
While the C7 bulbs in the natural trees were one of the first things put up in the whole display, the strobes in the trees were one of the last things installed, nearly a month later, and the strobes on the firehouse were only installed about a week earlier.

Do you use C7 strobes? How do they compare to the C9's?


Sorry, I was speaking from information not in common knowledge here. On these trees, we ran 24 power cords from the approximate planned location of the controllers to the canopy of the tree, and wire tied them in place. Then we wrapped the trunks and lower branches in red/green/clear mini lights with about 3 inch wrap spacing, with the lower half on separate channels from the upper half, so there were 6 channels just for the mini lights on the trunks and bare lower branches. Then we installed 7 sets of 26 each red/green/clear C7 incandescent strings in the canopy. Then three strings of about 7 each C9 base strobe lights on 5 foot spacing. So we had 30 channels of lights per tree, and a calculated 40 Amps of draw in an all on situation. If you set all the incandescent channels to twinkle, you got quite an impressive effect.

While we wanted to (and did) get the incandescent bulbs up early, we wanted to limit the weather impact on the strobes.
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Also thinking here how many strobes can you put on one channel. As i thinking i will have 30 strobes how many channels will that take to work. I know leds will be one I guess it all goes to how much each strobe draws. Dan

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30 Xenon strobes will be at most a fraction of a channel.

Different people have reported different numbers. I think the highest one I remember is 0.1A per strobe, so 30 would be 3A... Some of the others have reported 0.02A per strobe, which would be much lower. I'll see if I can get 10 or 20 somewhere I can easily get a reading that averages out the multiple strobes.

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klb

That sounds great. I really appreciate all the help you have been giving me. I know i ask a lot of questions but this hobby just makes my mind run wild and i am trying to get every piece of information on things that would work or i plan on using in my display. That way one I know what I am doing and the limits of what I am working on. And two I dont get me into a situaton that I dont want to be in. Once again thanks for all the help.

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I just put 10 of what I believe were the 2008 christmaslightshow.com strobes on a string, with a 10 turn adapter, and measured with a fluke 337 true RMS clamp meter. The readings do bounce around, from about as low as 7.0 amps up to around 9... I would say that the average is around 8... Divide by 10 turns for 0.8, and again by 10 for the 10 strobes, and they are around 0.08A each. So, you can put about 100 of them on the 8A limit of a LOR channel...

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my two cents on moisture control..... USE A CONFORMAL COATING. i have 40 strobes from christmaslightshow.com and first thing is i think they look awesome. i have an equal mix of 1 flash/sec and the 3/4 flash/sec. and really liked the look with the mixed. anyway, my first 4 strobes i put into the haunted house, in a hallway semi-cover from the elements. well the 2 multi flash units didnt like that at all, and both went dead the first or second night (i actually killed 3 of them), the single flash worked ok. i didnt do anything to them they all were straight out of the box. then i used a conformal coating (recomened in the how to section of http://www.woodinvillewonderland.com) i drilled weep holes in these that went to the haunted house. they worked fine the rest of the 2 weeks and we got alot of rain this year. for christmas all the strobes were coated, and only a few had weep holes (the 4 left from the haunt) they ALL worked fine for christmas, no more failures. i made sure the ones with the weep holes were pionted the right way. so i would use the coating on them, but i skipped the weep holes. it took about 30 minutes to do 20 lights, take apart, spray the coating, (let dry for few hours) then reassemble and silicone the screws again. hope that helps.

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  • 2 weeks later...

CLS now sells his strobes modified (conformal coated). I purchased the strobes before he did the mods, so I sprayed conformal coating on the boards. I did not drill weep holes because I did not know the orientation either.

2 of my strobes got a lot of condensation inside and on the boards themselves. But the strobes still worked.

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