SPT2 vs Big Power Extension Cords

[jimswinder]

Okay...

Trying to figure out what I want to do next year. I am planning to go from 3 LOR controllers to about 20 Controllers.

So, do I want to place all my controllers in my garage where they would be safe and dry (like this year) and run SPT-2 extension cords...

Or place the controllers out in the yard (vandalism?) in strategic places and have shorter SPT-2 cords but then still have to run heavier power cords and CAT5 for the controllers?

By looking at a lot of posts, it looks like most people opt to place their controllers in the yard...but it also looks like most of the bigger displays are off the beaten path and perhaps they are not worried about theft (like I am since I am in a very dense neighborhood).

With my 48 Channels, I ran nearly 5000' of SPT-2. With my longest run about 100'.

Would appreciate any and all suggestions, opinions and comments.

THANKS!!!!!

[iresq]

For what it is worth, I have yet to read a post were a controller was stolen.

You can easily camouflage the boxes. Some paint the enclosure. Some place inside of things like Christmas packages. Some hid behind bushes and trees. Some anchor in such a way that it would be difficult to remove.

20 controllers is a huge investment. Running each channel out of a garage would be a huge wiring undertaking.

It all boils down to your comfort level. If you are going to stress significantly over the controllers being out in the display, than it probably would be worth the effort to leave them in the garage. You can, of course, mix and match. Have some in and some out.

[George Simmons]

I'm only a two-year guy so there's lots of people with more experience than me. First year, I was also concerned with security and kept my controllers as close to under lock and key as I could. Cost a small fortune in extension cords. Second year I doubled my number of controllers and decided it was cheaper to put them as close to the elements they were controlling as possible. Yes, I was concerned about theft, but figured it was just about a wash between replacing a controller and making (and then having to store) the extension cords needed to run from the secure location to the yard. What motivated me the most was the convenience of having fewer cords (relatively speaking) to hassle with. So far, knock on wood, there has been no vandalism, so my opinion might change in a flash if that changes.

[jimswinder]

iresq wrote:

20 controllers is a huge investment. Running each channel out of a garage would be a huge wiring undertaking.

I guess I wasn't very clear!! (what a surprise, huh?) LOL

Vandalism was one concern...but I guess I was also wondering about the cost of running 320 SPT-2 as opposed to running 40 100' heavier extension cords to power the controllers, longer runs of 20 CAT5 cables, multiple enclosures and securing them (chains, locks, etc).

For those who have large displays, did you do it one way, and then wish you had done it the other?


EDIT: Quick Calculation:

40 - 100' 12/3 Extension Cords - About $2000
20 - Cat5 Cables - About $140
320 - 3' SPT2 Ext Cords - About $105
20 - Enclosure Boxes - About $600


320 - 75' SPT-2 Extension Cords (Ave Length) - $2640


George: Yes...running all LEDS (Good Point)

[George Simmons]

If you're using LED's, you don't need to run two individual power cords to each controller. Jumper the two sides and you only need to use one cord. Connect splitters to your one power cord from the garage and you can connect a lot of controllers before you have to worry about overloading anything. If you get your display spread out beyond 4000' and Cat5 becomes an issue, get a repeater from LOR and you're good for another 4000'.

[Dave Batzdorf]

I also have my controllers out chained to a tree. I mounted them on stanchions made from 1" conduit sunk in concrete two-hole cinder block. I also cover the mess with a black garbage bag. just keeps everything looking good and out of the weather.

[-klb-]

One more thought to add. At the city park, we actually consider one of our largest theft targets to be all the 12/3 extension cord. We actually put more effort into hiding how much of it we use than hiding the controllers. Thankfully, we don't use nearly as much as we did the first year, when all the power was on the back of the firehouse, and we ran 19 extension cords across the alley into the park, and then all the way across the park. Last year we had electrical service installed in the park, and distribution panels spread out through the park. We never seem to use power exactly where we predicted we would, so those cords from the first year still come in handy, but I don't think we have used more than half of those 12/3 cords since the first year.

[jimswinder]

-klb- wrote:

Last year we had electrical service installed in the park, and distribution panels spread out through the park.

I think if I decide to put my controllers in the yard, I will do it right (more money, I know) and run my power thru buried conduit runs to the key places in the yard.

Might even be cheaper than buying 100' 12/3 Extension Cords...definitely more convenient.

Thanks klb...I think you just swayed the pendulum to "controllers out in the yard".

We'll see if someone else can make it swing back!! lol

[iresq]

Get your cat 5 at monoprice.com

They have really good prices.

[JBullard]

I use 20 controllers, 320 channels, (Plus 2 CCRs this year) and they are all out in the yard. I am almost all LED and darn near everything could be run from ONE 12/3 power cord.

Most of my controllers only have a single power input cord (will convert the others over this year), feed with either 16/3 or 18/2 wire.

I still use an insane amount of SPT1 (no need for SPT2 with LEDs) almost 6000 feet.

I could not imagine having all the controllers in one place.

If you are running LEDs, then revise your calculations regarding the need for 40 12/3 power cables. Spend the money on even more controllers.

I have way more money in my LEDs then I do in my controllers. Just something else to think about.

[jimswinder]

JBullard wrote:

Most of my controllers only have a single power input cord (will convert the others over this year), feed with either 16/3 or 18/2 wire.

I was wondering if that could be done without hurting the controller...

[JBullard]

Sure can, that's why LOR provided the wiring option.

[Dave Batzdorf]

The only thing that will really hurt the controller is drawing excessive power. Like previously stated, LEDs draw little to nothing. Minis draw an average of .3 per 100 bulbs. Get a clamp-on amp meter or the Kilowatt and keep an eye on the draw. I run almost exclusively minis. I do keep an eye on the draw and I do have a couple of controllers that are run on a single 14/3.

[Alan Roten]

Also keep in mind that if you place the controllers in the yard you will only need a few long cat5 cables. As Dave pointed out you can get cheap ones from Monoprice or several other online vendors. I recently paid .69 each for 3 ft ones.

[GaryMartin]

Jim, I started out quite paranoid about placing controllers outside. I built a housing inside my garage that held six 8 channel controllers and a plug box on the outside of the garage, all hard wired to it.

I needed four more 8 channel controllers in the yard, in pairs so I ran a 30 amp line out to the first box (using a spare shorepower cord from our cruiser, most expensive extension cord I ever used. ) and then ran a 15 amp cord from the first to second box.

I ran that way for three Halloweens before I did my first Christmas show and wanted a LOT more channels.

Now the outlets built into the (brick, ugh) on the side of my garage ran fairly short extensions up to the segments of C9s on our house eves and to the bushes and other items immediately on the house so I didn't have a HUGE amount of extension cords but I did buy a couple of *cases* of them from Home Depot. Not cheap.

When it came time to put up more leaping light arches and Bellagio poles, all of which are channel hungry, I decided the controllers had to go outside or I'd have a huge mess of extensions running everywhere.

We made Snowmen cutouts (plywood, painted, from the Winfield Collection) and placed our controllers behind them on either rebar or black iron pipe driven deep into the ground. The enclosures I used can take hose clamps through the back of them for attachment. This secures the controllers down very solidly and someone would have a heck of a time trying to steal one. I also made some solid oak stakes out of 1 x 4s, and bolted controller enclosures to them. I may not be able to get those stakes or the iron pipe back up out of the ground until Spring. They're really in there. (Midwest, Kansas to be exact). I will need a six or eight foot long pry bar, tied to the stake base to get them out most likely.

So my next dozen controllers are all out in the yard, very close to the fixtures they control and nearly invisible, especially at night.

For our megatree (which is based on a 2" diameter steel pipe) I used a 4" piece of schd40 PVC and bolted three enclosures to the outside of it in a triangular formation. I then used the rubber 4" to 2" adapters on the ends of the PVC to set it on the pole the megatree uses. With those hose clamps tightened down it is VERY secure. No one could steal the enclosure without totally destroying it.

So I think it's very possible to put your enclosures out near where they need to be and still have them securely placed. I'm over my paranoia about keeping controllers inside and won't bother with that ever again.


Check out this link to see one of the cutouts we used to hide controller enclosures behind:

http://parksidechristmas.com/tinc?key=MSRAfLS5&fs_settings=1,21,0,5,800,740

[jimswinder]

GaryMartin wrote:

Jim, I started out quite paranoid about placing controllers outside.

Hey Gary..I think you hit the nail on the head...my paranoia was the driving force behind putting all my controllers (3) in my garage...but wanting to have up to 30 controllers next year...no way can I do that!!!

Since my first post I have already designed something that will not only hold my controllers, but will also support my mini trees (and star), arches and what I am going to call my "Streamers"!!, and also be an anchor point for my guy wires to my mega tree up on the peak of my roof. These will all slide into supports buried and cemented in the ground and will have the ability to be secured (locked) so they cannot be removed.

[GaryMartin]

You're on the right track! Thieves want "easy". Make it hard to take something, they'll leave it alone.

My outside design approach is always #1) Will this survive 70+ mph wind gusts in a storm and #2) How hard is it to steal it.

Course that's why my 22' megatree uses 2" steel pipe (one piece) set into a ground sleeve that's in 500# of concrete.

jimswinder wrote:

GaryMartin wrote:

Jim, I started out quite paranoid about placing controllers outside.

Hey Gary..I think you hit the nail on the head...my paranoia was the driving force behind putting all my controllers (3) in my garage...but wanting to have up to 30 controllers next year...no way can I do that!!!

Since my first post I have already designed something that will not only hold my controllers, but will also support my mini trees (and star), arches and what I am going to call my "Streamers"!!, and also be an anchor point for my guy wires to my mega tree up on the peak of my roof. These will all slide into supports buried and cemented in the ground and will have the ability to be secured (locked) so they cannot be removed.

[shiner]

jimswinder wrote:

EDIT: Quick Calculation:

40 - 100' 12/3 Extension Cords - About $2000

Jim,

Not sure if you have a costco near you, but my costco is selling 100' 12 gauge (yellow) extention cords for $27.

I put the controllers on each side of the house and grouped them to a common back board. I screwed the back board to two 6 foot stakes from the fencing section of home depot. Once those were in the ground, you would need to be determined to make off with them. I may end up putting in some masonry anchors into the brick of my house and install the backboard to that next year - only to add more time needed to make off with them in the future. I did not have any problems, but like you, theft was a big concern for me in my first year of LOR.

[jimswinder]

shiner wrote:

jimswinder wrote:

Jim,

Not sure if you have a costco near you, but my costco is selling 100' 12 gauge (yellow) extention cords for $27.

Hey Shiner...

Thanks for the heads up, but actually I have decided to run all my power underground thru conduit (individual wires as opposed to ROMEX). In the long run I think it will be about the same cost (if not cheaper than Ext Cords) and DEFINITELY a time saver!!

[stanward]

Isn't SPT1 and SPT2 the same AWG wire but with a difference in insulation thickness?



JBullard wrote:

I still use an insane amount of SPT1 (no need for SPT2 with LEDs) almost 6000 feet.