paulcav151 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I searched the forums and didn't see any posts regarding this:Have any of you modified the remote (Press for Fog button) so as to be able to control a fog machine with LOR? I realize the power of the fogger will have to be on all the time so as to eliminate the warm-up delay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-klb- Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 A number of people have done it, but every remote could be different, so there isn't a way to make a good how to post. Also, the search here seems to have a time limit on how far back it will search, which is quite annoying.Generally, you want to put a 120V relay coil, and a C9 bulb as the load on one LOR channel. Then connect the normally open contacts of the relay across the button from the remote. That way you get the same results if the button is pressed, or the relay energised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulcav151 Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 What purpose does the C9 serve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-klb- Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 It can serve at least two purposes. Many relay coils draw less current than the triacs hold on current. So when the triac is triggered, the coil starts to engage. Then the current in the coil is low enough that the triac starts to switch off again, so the relay starts to disengage. Many people have reported buzzing, and other issues when the relay was the only load on a channel.The second issue is that having an inductive load, like a relay coil switch off can generate a voltage spike, if there is nothing else connected to absorb it. The C9 bulb can absorb the voltage spike from the coil switching off, with no damage, and fully protect the LOR channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulcav151 Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 Nice! I would have never known that without asking. THX! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebaronn Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Hello!I controlled 8 foggers for Halloween using Relays. Here is the LOR post:http://lightorama.mywowbb.com/forum72/19730.htmlAfter all was said and done, I hat the LOR channel plugged into a relay and a C7 bulb at the same time(The C7 bulb controlled the "fire" in the smoke of the cannon) and I still had a problem with the the COMM locking up on my computer, not all the time, but once was enough to know I had a problems. Some sequences would work just fine. Then you play the same sequence again and the COMM would lock up.So I added "snubbers" that were purchased from Radio shack and I still had the same problem, the COMM locked up (always possible I connected them incorrectly). The COMM could be reset easily by removing the USB cord and plugging it back in, but who wants that?I did notice that LOR sells a USB cord with dual filters:http://store.lightorama.com/usbcausewius.htmlBut I haven't tried that. I eventually put the controllers on their own network using ELLs and nothing went wrong. I was told there was a strong possibilty of destroying the controllers, because the feedback could detroy the triacs......but I chanced it anyway. They with no problems for the week before Halloween and worked just fine during the Halloween show:The cannons fire at 3:56. And the same 1602W controllers have been working just fine for the christmas season.Hope this helps.Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulcav151 Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 Thanks Baronn, for the lead on the thread, and the explanation. This is gonna take me a bit to digest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebaronn Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Here are 2 other board threads:http://forums.planetchristmas.com/showthread.php?t=34691http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8150The more info the better!Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory402 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Paul,What your trying to do with fog machines can be done and we can teach you how.What you are doing is replacing the hand remote (rocker switch with pilot light) that came with your fogger with a set of contacts on a relay.You will have to take apart the hand remote (remove the 4 screws and separate the covers) and determine which 2 wires in there are the switching wires, this is easy; they are the 2 wires that go to the rocker switch.Cut those wires off of the switch, or desolder them, and connect them to a normaly open set of contacts on the relay.To turn the relay coil on or off you simply wire it to your 1602 board the same way you would wire a set of mini lights.So now when you energize the relay coil, using your LOR channel on or off command (no fading or shimmering commands can be used), it closes the set of contacts and then it preforms the same way the hand remote switch used to.When you purchase your 110v relay (radio shack sells them) it will have a picture (wiring diagram) on the side of it showing you which terminals on it are the coil and which terminals are the normaly open set of contacts.This procedure takes some basic electrical knowledge, perhaps you may need a friend with electrical know how to help you.There is another hurdle here with "voltage spikes" you will have to overcome that I dare not discuss at this time as it may confuse and discourage you as it did me.We can get you through this, but only if you continue press forward with us.Let us know...Vic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulcav151 Posted December 31, 2009 Author Share Posted December 31, 2009 And would those boards eliminate the "voltage spike" issues that Vic alluded to in his reply? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory402 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Good question Paul, one I have been wondering about myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-klb- Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 An inductive load powered from DC should have a diode connected across the load, so that it is reverse biased when power is applied. (and thus doing nothing) When the circuit is first turned off, and the magnetic flux converts to current, the diode will now be forward biased for that current, and allow the magnetic flux and current to decay into coil winding losses, and forward bias voltage of the diode, without creating the voltage spike that could impact the channel.Not being triac (or SCR) based, there will be no concerns about minimum hold on current though, so no worries about needing to supply minimum loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowardShank Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 For mine I didn't disassemble my fog switches, I just extended my fog switch by soldering wires to the appropriate circuits and terminating them with spade connectors. This way I can use my switch manually and have the option of connecting it to my DIORLY8 on my DIO32. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWSanta Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Wow that seems wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more complicated than the way I did my Fog Machine....I took the stock rocker switch apart and soldered on 2 leads where the switch makes contact. I took those 2 leads to a 12 Volt Relay and then Fed the other 2 leads of that relay to a 12 v 500 mA Walwart (or Transformer).Then I plugged that Transformer into a channel on the LOR unit. It's worked flawlessly for the last 2 years and this past year I had 2 wired in exactly the same fashion. Worked perfectly. Except my one fog machine died.... I'll see if I can find the how to online, as that's where I found it...-Evan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory402 Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Evan,This is a great, simple way. A 12v dc walwart plugged into a channels extention cord.You can go to an auto junkyard for 12v relays, they will probably give them to ya.Perhaps you may need a c7 nightlight (or a snubber) plugged into the extention cord to help with the voltage spike when the walwart is cut off by the controller.At any rate, I like simplicity.Vic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Victory402 wrote: Evan,This is a great, simple way. A 12v dc walwart plugged into a channels extention cord.You can go to an auto junkyard for 12v relays, they will probably give them to ya.Perhaps you may need a c7 nightlight (or a snubber) plugged into the extention cord to help with the voltage spike when the walwart is cut off by the controller.At any rate, I like simplicity.VicHi Vic, I don't think you have to worry too much about feedback(voltage spikes) from a low voltage (12vdc or less) wall transformer, most are built with a full-wave diode bridge that converts the AC current into DC current, so this full wave diode bridge, or rectifier as they are commonly called, should help to prevent any voltage spikes from getting back to the LOR unit. So no extra lighting or anything else should be needed when plugging a low power (12vdc or less) transformer (or power adapter) into a LOR channel control outlet. Just make sure if you do this you keep the intensity on at 100% and use the channel only for OFF/ON use and nothing else. No fades, dimming, twinkles or shimmering should be done, again, the intensity should never go below the 100% threshold except when in the OFF (0) state.Orville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogamoga Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Ok sorry to bring up this old topic but i wanted to do somthing similar and had a question. So I am using a 12v wall wart to power my lor dc board...my idea is to get a 12 v realy and conect that to the dc board to controll my fog machine. Now my question is would I need any snuber or diode or anthing like that or could I get away with out it...I hope this would be the case as I dont want to deal with the extra complications Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 ogamoga wrote: Ok sorry to bring up this old topic but i wanted to do somthing similar and had a question. So I am using a 12v wall wart to power my lor dc board...my idea is to get a 12 v realy and conect that to the dc board to controll my fog machine. Now my question is would I need any snuber or diode or anthing like that or could I get away with out it...I hope this would be the case as I dont want to deal with the extra complicationsogmoga, what you would need to do is place an 1N4001 or equivalent diode across the DC coil of the relay. Just make sure you wire it so that the + side of the diode (non-banded end) is connected to the + side of your DC output board, the other side (banded) end of the diode (-) side is connected to the other side of the relay coil and your - side of your DC board. Other than that, all connections to the relay as in my diagram are the same.What this diode does is protect the relay and your DC board from "bouneback" or a second trip of the relay, thereby creating two triggers that would complete the relay circuit and keep noise out of the DC line, as well as any current that could bounce back into your DC board and possinly cause damage. On DC applications the diode between the coils IS NOT an option and always required to prevent "reverse current" damage to the DC system controlling it.There may be someone here that can better explain this, but I have always placed a diode (usually a 1N4001) between any DC controlled relay system I've set up and used.Hope this helps. I do not believe you will need any type of snubber or diodes on the relay output (wiper/N.O.) connection points. I have never needed them there, just across the relay coil that energizes the relay itself.BTW: the diode across the relay coil works great for wal-wart use too, even if full wave, O always use a diode across any DC relay coil I use to prevent any "accidental" voltage feedback or "bounce" of the relay coil. haven't had an issue with using this method for well over 25+ years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogamoga Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Ok and how many amp really do I need to get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogamoga Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Ok in adittion to me wanting to know how many amps my relay needs to carry are you sure about how you told me to attach the diode is right because I saw when researching said the oppistehere one of the web sites (scroll towards the bottom)http://www.bcae1.com/relays.htmThanksBen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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