LORsequences.com Redesign

[michael.farney]

Hi all,

The website LORsequences.com is for sharing LOR programming files. The site has had many issues since it opened in and has aged past reasonable support. It is not even supported by modern browsers anymore. Because of previous custom edits, the Joomla site is not easily upgradable. I am looking at retiring this code/site completely. (Don't panic, it will be up thru December.)

Ideally, I'd like to replace it with something more user friendly and be able to meet everyone's needs. I am looking for feedback and a wishlist for a new site. What worked? What didn't? What else should be included? How much file "policing" should be done? Should we have a new format? Suggestions?

I heard a myriad of comments of the years. But, LOR has changed a lot since the site launched in 2005. I think the biggest issue was the organization and ability to find something. The search function sucked (pardon my french). We really need searching/filtering by channels, title, artist, etc. Another common comment was concerning the audio (rather lack thereof.)

I welcome your feedback on this. In particular, your constructive criticism will be most helpful in creating a new site that has the features you want. Retiring the site and replacing it is on my project list for 2010.

[Gary Levelius]

Michael,

I certainly look forward to a re-designed site. I have used it many times and, quite frankly, it saved my butt last Christmas as I ran short on time and didn't have much left to sequence. Talk about pulling one outta the fire

-Gary-

[Michael B]

Michael,

First of all, thank you for all your hard work and dedication. Your site has been used by many of us.

Many of the songs need audio. Ripping a song from a CD often doesn't match. I understand the copyright laws, but for sharing purposes we need the audio if possible.

Again, thank you!

[lightsbyjoe]

If u understand copyright laws why r u asking him to break them? just saying if possible doesnt change what you mean. he cant just go putting audio up on the site unless he has permission from the companies to do it most wont do that unless he pays money

[lkcubsrule]

I love the website as it is. It could be a little more user friendly (i.e. all the 'Christmas' sequences together...upgrade all to LOR 2). I just remembered it after seeing this post, so I went and downloaded a good 10 sequences to still do for this year!

[michael.farney]

michael.farney wrote:

Hi all,

The website LORsequences.com is for sharing LOR programming files. The site has had many issues since it opened in and has aged past reasonable support. It is not even supported by modern browsers anymore. Because of previous custom edits, the Joomla site is not easily upgradable. I am looking at retiring this code/site completely. (Don't panic, it will be up thru December.)

Ideally, I'd like to replace it with something more user friendly and be able to meet everyone's needs. I am looking for feedback and a wishlist for a new site. What worked? What didn't? What else should be included? How much file "policing" should be done? Should we have a new format? Suggestions?

I heard a myriad of comments of the years. But, LOR has changed a lot since the site launched in 2005. I think the biggest issue was the organization and ability to find something. The search function sucked (pardon my french). We really need searching/filtering by channels, title, artist, etc. Another common comment was concerning the audio (rather lack thereof.)

I welcome your feedback on this. In particular, your constructive criticism will be most helpful in creating a new site that has the features you want. Retiring the site and replacing it is on my project list for 2010.

Whoa. Typo city! I guess I should have paid more attention to what I was typing.

[michael.farney]

lightsbyjoe wrote:

If u understand copyright laws why r u asking him to break them? just saying if possible doesnt change what you mean. he cant just go putting audio up on the site unless he has permission from the companies to do it most wont do that unless he pays money

The copyright issue is a very tricky one to deal with, so I am open to suggestions. I agree with the *need* for audio to be included. However, I have yet to come up with a legal means to do so. There probably is no true legal means without turning it into a pay site.

Some people have resorted to uploading zips. It violates the site's Terms of Use (which is in place to cover my butt), but I have never taken files down for this reason.

I had elected to keep the first version of the site pretty clean from copyright issues. However, I, like a lot of people, never use the site because it's too difficult. It's not economical to buy 25 songs to try out 25 random files on the site. And then what if you don't like any of them? The original vision was to have video of every sequence. Thus, you can see before you downloaded. I did make videos for the very beginning submissions, but the site quickly grew faster than I cared to keep up with.

I may try to move to submission of the audio. If the audio isn't public (behind a login) and I force users to accept an agreement (they will buy the song or already have a legal copy) to get to the downloads, that might be the best I can do. Passwords maybe? I also was toying with using scrubbed (scrambled) filenames. It would at least make it harder/annoying for those who were just out to rip off a bunch of songs. A directory of music like this:

94PB2kylZrMoHoM.mp3
5818 578wVwAgInvl1Y6.mp3
FfaTS35nEnKkzcS.mp3
V15ZcA78O3jwHF8.mp3


If audio is offered, I want to make 100% sure it does not become a music sharing site as opposed to sequence sharing.

As Joe pointed out, there is no way to justify putting the audio on the site. I wouldn't care so much if it was my 10 sequences on my personal site. But being the enabler/provider of such a service can be dangerous territory. I will certainly revisit the issue of audio in consideration of the new site. However, the new site will probably only have sequences.

Any other suggestions on how to appropriately deal with the audio issue are welcome.

[George Simmons]

Michael,

I've looked at your site and I like the concept, although I've not yet downloaded anything from there. I recognize the service it provides and I respect the work you've done with it.

I don't personally see the need for audio on the site, however. Why take the chance that some sleazebag executive might hire some sleazebag attorney to make an example of you?

Why not have people who are submitting sequences simply include the song name, artist, and album name of the audio? Good heavens - if someone isn't motivated enough to track down the audio for a completed sequence they got for nothing then maybe he or she is in the wrong hobby.

[Paul Roberson]

George Simmons wrote:

Michael,

I've looked at your site and I like the concept, although I've not yet downloaded anything from there. I recognize the service it provides and I respect the work you've done with it.

I don't personally see the need for audio on the site, however. Why take the chance that some sleazebag executive might hire some sleazebag attorney to make an example of you?

Why not have people who are submitting sequences simply include the song name, artist, and album name of the audio? Good heavens - if someone isn't motivated enough to track down the audio for a completed sequence they got for nothing then maybe he or she is in the wrong hobby.

I have tried a sequence or two from there and owned the songs already. However, the audio file I had would not fit the sequence. I found out the exact album it came from and purchased the song again. Still would not fit the sequence. The song may start out in sync, but get out of sync (Yes it was constant bit rate). Another I got from there I actually purchased 3 audio files only to find that none of them fit.

Maybe the audio file did fit the sequence. Maybe it was programmed that way.

It has nothing to do with "motivation". I consider sequences without the audio file it was programmed with to be almost useless.

I understand your sleazebag comments and understand why someone would not want to provide the audio.:cool:

[jimswinder]

Why take the chance of any legal lawsuit in regards to audio. If there is a problem, more than likely they will come after the owner of the site, not those who use it...so why take that chance?

I actually used the site a few days ago and was surprised to receive the audio WITH the sequences.

I agree with George though...the most fun of this "hobby" is doing the sequencing (and yes, those I did download I ended up pretty much completely redoing because they did not fit "my style"), but it was nice to see how others' interpret certain songs.

I don't know if you really need to include video either, since it will, more than likely, not be any where close to looking like someone else's display. IF they have a video, you could just supply a link to that video.

[Jim Hans]

Thanks for all your work on a great site. My one suggestion (being new to LOR and loving the site) would be to have the number of channels the file uses clearly identified. As a newbie, converting 108 channels down to my 16 is a bit above me at this point.

[Linda]

I love the site and have dl several sequences that I have been able to revise to fit my needs. I look forward to seeing what the new site will be like. I also appreciate all the hard work you have put in to the site. Many thanks

[michael.farney]

George Simmons wrote:

[snip]Why not have people who are submitting sequences simply include the song name, artist, and album name of the audio? Good heavens - if someone isn't motivated enough to track down the audio for a completed sequence they got for nothing then maybe he or she is in the wrong hobby.

This is how the site currently operates. A lot of people do not provide enough information to get the song. Even when the correct information is given, the audio still doesn't always line up correctly. Another drawback is if you don't like the sequence after viewing it, you're out the money you spent on the audio.

What I'd like is a way the sequence can be viewed prior to people shelling out money for the audio. I'm hoping someone can suggest something I've overlooked.

[michael.farney]

Paul Roberson wrote:

George Simmons wrote:

Michael,

I've looked at your site and I like the concept, although I've not yet downloaded anything from there. I recognize the service it provides and I respect the work you've done with it.

I don't personally see the need for audio on the site, however. Why take the chance that some sleazebag executive might hire some sleazebag attorney to make an example of you?

Why not have people who are submitting sequences simply include the song name, artist, and album name of the audio? Good heavens - if someone isn't motivated enough to track down the audio for a completed sequence they got for nothing then maybe he or she is in the wrong hobby.

I have tried a sequence or two from there and owned the songs already. However, the audio file I had would not fit the sequence. I found out the exact album it came from and purchased the song again. Still would not fit the sequence. The song may start out in sync, but get out of sync (Yes it was constant bit rate). Another I got from there I actually purchased 3 audio files only to find that none of them fit.

A common reason for this is because people don't know where it came from, or they started with an illegal copy to begin with. People will often list an arbitrary album that appears to have the same song, but as you found out, the sequence will not match. The mis-information on the site causes many people to buy the wrong song over and over. I do get emails on this.

[michael.farney]

jimswinder wrote:

Why take the chance of any legal lawsuit in regards to audio. If there is a problem, more than likely they will come after the owner of the site, not those who use it...so why take that chance?

I actually used the site a few days ago and was surprised to receive the audio WITH the sequences.

I agree with George though...the most fun of this "hobby" is doing the sequencing (and yes, those I did download I ended up pretty much completely redoing because they did not fit "my style"), but it was nice to see how others' interpret certain songs.

I don't know if you really need to include video either, since it will, more than likely, not be any where close to looking like someone else's display. IF they have a video, you could just supply a link to that video.

The current site does NOT offer music. Unless someone uploaded a ton a music this year, 95% of the content is audio free. I have seen a random zip here or there, but the percentage of such submissions is very, very small.

[Guest wbottomley]

Michael... shoot me an email... it's in my profile.

I have an idea you might like but don't want it publicly until it's final.

[Michael B]

lightsbyjoe wrote:

If u understand copyright laws why r u asking him to break them? just saying if possible doesnt change what you mean. he cant just go putting audio up on the site unless he has permission from the companies to do it most wont do that unless he pays money

You make a good point. I meant if there was a legal way. Especially, on edited songs. Thanks for setting me straight.

[Michael B]

lightsbyjoe wrote:

If u understand copyright laws why r u asking him to break them? just saying if possible doesnt change what you mean. he cant just go putting audio up on the site unless he has permission from the companies to do it most wont do that unless he pays money

You make a good point. I meant if there was a legal way. Especially, on edited songs. Thanks for setting me straight.

[Sean Rizor]

michael.farney wrote:

Hi all,

The website LORsequences.com is for sharing LOR programming files. The site has had many issues since it opened in and has aged past reasonable support. It is not even supported by modern browsers anymore. Because of previous custom edits, the Joomla site is not easily upgradable. I am looking at retiring this code/site completely. (Don't panic, it will be up thru December.)

Ideally, I'd like to replace it with something more user friendly and be able to meet everyone's needs. I am looking for feedback and a wishlist for a new site. What worked? What didn't? What else should be included? How much file "policing" should be done? Should we have a new format? Suggestions?

I heard a myriad of comments of the years. But, LOR has changed a lot since the site launched in 2005. I think the biggest issue was the organization and ability to find something. The search function sucked (pardon my french). We really need searching/filtering by channels, title, artist, etc. Another common comment was concerning the audio (rather lack thereof.)

I welcome your feedback on this. In particular, your constructive criticism will be most helpful in creating a new site that has the features you want. Retiring the site and replacing it is on my project list for 2010.

Well I love the site. I have used a number of the sequences from there and modified them to my display. Since every display is different, you can't exactly use the same sequence. Sometimes the modifications take even longer than putting together a new one due to the amount of moving channels around to make it work correctly. Then I add in some of my own stuff.

I will say that there are some sequences that have been made to fit specially edited music. These songs are truly difficult to find and it wouldn't be a bad idea if there was a secure way to share this audio. I think your idea of a password is a good start. Maybe each of us could be members and pay a small yearly fee to share files without getting into trouble. I'm sure you will come up with some good idea as the site looks good. I can't wait to see the new site in the New Year!

P.S. I would like to see video... that would be great!

[GaryBo]

Michael,
Just to add my "two cents" regarding music files.
While most of us can afford to purchase LOR controllers, mass quantities of lights,
displays, radio and sound equipment, etc, why must one be concerned about the price of a song?
Most legitimate music download sites offer a song for a buck or less.

If I need a song, I get it from a legal site, that I subscribe to.
It is also possible to get complete CD's from most local libraries, and alas, one would have to "rip" it.
If one is really anxious to get "free" music, all he or she has to do, is run a google search for the song in mp3, and several sites will be available for dl(freebee).


I would like to see, when a sequence is posted, that the poster also list the song title, artist, and album, that the song came from.
I have downloaded many sequences from your site, and appreciate the ability to do so.
I would hate to see music included with the download, which would present legal problems with the music industry.