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Selling your Sequences?


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Like the saying goes, "Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll be out on the lake every weekend."

Okay, it's really, "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

So maybe "fishing" lessons would be more useful than swapping sequences. Perhaps the lessons could be developed into a variety of approaches that could be used. Although I like the idea for compiling a collection of cue lists to save time sequencing specific songs.

Tom

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Theres an idea!

I also love your analogy.

However, even if there were extensive "how to's" then we would be redoing what Dan has been coming up with and is continuing to develop. We have all seen his videos... Seems pointless to make new ones.

Also, if you really wanna learn to sequence, go to PLUS 2007!

Zac

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I think it all boils down to the marks on the sequence board. I don't care how many channels or where those channels are going to. Mine, just like everyone elses shows will be different (as explained earlier). The mark of an instrument, a voice, a boom or bang. I think some test sequences would help in the form of timing of marks on a sequence from songs/music (several channels of timing marks only, not a whole yard show). This would save a bunch of time in creating a new sequence of marks while repeatly listening to the audio over and over (which can eat up a lot of time). If created and shared/traded/bought, now you have the mark, now make it your own creation. That's what I think would be helpful for some (if not many). It's a start anyway. Now, to pay for marks on a sequence? Well the person doing the marking better have a good ear.

Just my thoughts,

Tom

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I think T Smith is right on. Yes there would be people that would buy full, partial ect. sequinces. Which I could see being helpful. But on the other hand I think most need to focus on teaching others how to use LOR more productively. If people know completely how to do the work themselves then there more likely to stick with the hobby.

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I say go ahead set up your website. You may have limited interest, and it may not go over at all, but if you really want to do it and there are no legal implications, then go for it! Maybe it takes off, maybe it doesn't.

25 years ago, nobody thought that selling Personal Computers to the average consumer would ever go over. Why would somebody ever need their own computer?

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Well, we also need to remember how kind Carson was to upload his sequence for wizards to the forum. I'd say let's all just share and be honest about it all. I am 3/4 of the way through with Disney's Spectromagic on an 80 channel setup. #1, I need more idea's for sequences to paste in. #2, I'd be more than happy to share once it's done if everyone else is sharing too.

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Zac_Cutt wrote:

I would suggest contacting Dan first. It is his software.

Zac

Microsoft owns Excel, but people sell Excel templates for various items.

Joomla! is an open source product, yet people sell templates for profit for this software.

Simply selling a sequence would not require permission from anyone. The person who bought it would be responsible for having the software to make the file useful to them.
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As a newbie to LOL, I would be interested in buying someone elses' pre-done sequence file but only as follows:

1) You can't sell me the music that goes along with your sequence file. You can "refer" me that the sequence is timed to some MP3 audio, but you can't sell me the actual music file (all sorts of copyright issues).

2) You can sell me a sequence, but that then gives me unlimited rights to play it , re-use it, edit it, and even turn around and re-sell it (once editied?)....hmmmm.

How about being gracious to us newbies and toss-a-bone with a library of free sequences for simpler standard songs? It still gives you the bragging rights. May the person with the most downloaded sequences win (something...)

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llbarnes hit on something that I think everyone would be interested in.

For lack of a term, I'll called them "simple series." These may be 2 second, 10 second (whatever length) long, single or mulitpul channel configurations that you might loop or use wherever in a sequence.

I think it would easy enough to screen capture the segment and post the pic.

Example:
I've been working on a simple sequence in my head of 8 channels.
Think of them as 8 columns. Columns 1 would chase to 8 and 8 chase to one on top of each other. Maybe at 70%. Then on the same 8 channels, I'd like to work in another sequence at 100%

So two sequences (1 @70% and the other at 100%) are running on the same set of 8 channels.

A picture of what this would look like would be of value. I think others would like to see some simple ideas and incorporate them into their own.

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JR V wrote:

Don, I would dbl check it over with Dan just because we don't know if he has something like this already in the works.

We do have pre-sequenced shows in the works. We are currently working to get the rights to sell the music with the sequences. (it is a bit of a legal hassle).

That does not mean that people should not do it on their own.... One market that I think is wide open is building custom sequences for individual displays.
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Dan,

you guys should check out "smart-tracks" since that is royalty-free sound files that are sold as part of Pinnacle's Studio 10 video editing software. That home movie video industry is always asking about "permission" for copyrighted music. So, go google royalty-free background music.

It may not be the Transiberian Orchestra, but it gets the point across.

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LightORama wrote:

That does not mean that people should not do it on their own.... One market that I think is wide open is building custom sequences for individual displays.

I think the KEY word here is INDIVIDUAL displays. I can't visualize how I could use a canned sequence without duplicating the display it was written for.

For instance I have 32 channles of LOR and 192 channels if DIO control. Makes for a fairly unique hardware config. The sequencing for a MegaTree vs a roof line vs a yard grid (to me) are fundamentally different thereby negating interchanging them.

Perhaps I'm missing the concept and the usability of canned sequences?

While I love Jeff T, and Don T's (to name few) sequences, I can't imagine drag and dropping or plug and playing thier sequences into my display without just copying thier display as well.

I'm sure I'm missing something, but there is something very rewarding about watching your sequence run and not hearing .. "Wow thats great .. it looks just like the one on the internet !!" (yikes) ...

-- Bob
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Santas Helper wrote:

I think it all boils down to the marks on the sequence board. I don't care how many channels or where those channels are going to. Mine, just like everyone elses shows will be different (as explained earlier). The mark of an instrument, a voice, a boom or bang. I think some test sequences would help in the form of timing of marks on a sequence from songs/music (several channels of timing marks only, not a whole yard show). This would save a bunch of time in creating a new sequence of marks while repeatly listening to the audio over and over (which can eat up a lot of time). If created and shared/traded/bought, now you have the mark, now make it your own creation. That's what I think would be helpful for some (if not many). It's a start anyway. Now, to pay for marks on a sequence? Well the person doing the marking better have a good ear.

Just my thoughts,

Tom



My main point and idea couldn't be said better as above.

No matter how you cut it, there is editing. I think the discussion boils down to "are pre-tapped sequences customizable to fit any display without difficulty?" I would say yes because you add and do what you want. If you want your mega-tree to twirl, then yes, you have to add more events to the grid at the twirl. The point was to cover the major music events, and that's all. You won't get it tapped the way you want, but you can certainly get one with the basic work done (work you'd obviously have to duplicate if starting from scratch.)

We're getting hung up on completed sequences. Yes, completed sequences are nearly impossible to convert between displays...we understand that. But for beginners, being able to see and view such a thing is a major learning tool...the same as when people sharing sequences.

And I like the ideas a lot of you came up with. I think it would be a good idea to come up with some sort of collaboration site. A place with free items, hints, tips, and LOR ideas for megatree, minitree, house, etc layouts and examples would be great. Teaching and being an open community we all learn more than not sharing. I don't see any reason why we can't have a free library of ideas. The only problem is finding somewhere to put and share these ideas. PC is a cool place, but there isn't a lot for actual LOR sequecing besides the forums. I think the whole idea is great; we just need someone with enough inertia to put it up. Such a site could coexist with the orginial idea.


tsmith35 wrote:

Like the saying goes, "Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll be out on the lake every weekend."

Okay, it's really, "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

So maybe "fishing" lessons would be more useful than swapping sequences. Perhaps the lessons could be developed into a variety of approaches that could be used. Although I like the idea for compiling a collection of cue lists to save time sequencing specific songs.

Tom
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LightORama wrote:

We do have pre-sequenced shows in the works. We are currently working to get the rights to sell the music with the sequences. (it is a bit of a legal hassle).

That does not mean that people should not do it on their own.... One market that I think is wide open is building custom sequences for individual displays.

I've done a bit of this custom sequencing for a few folks. They turned out fairly well, but that is only because I knew the exact layout and configuration of their displays. On a large or complex display I don't know how well a "canned" sequence would work without some heavy editing. I do think Dan's pre-sequenced shows will be a huge help to many, especially those who don't have a lot of time to write their own.

BTW, I do have some "starter" sequences available for anyone to download and use. They contain the main beats and sub beats of the songs with some basic events. They are intended to be used as a start and need to be adapted to your own show. You are required to purchase your own legal copy of the songs used. Several people here have used these sequences over the past two years. If you are interested please PM me or send an email to marty at christmasutah dot com and I'll send you the instructions on downloading and using them.
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If this was going to happen, I would set the default to 8 channels and the blocks are mini trees just set in a row. So then you could get basic chassing, fading and beets down and it would be easier to modify.




--Daniel L

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As a newbie, I am interested in ‘pre done sequences’. Not to use them directly, but to figure out how to do it. For example, I want to do a fast spin of a mega tree. I don’t know the basic mechanics of it.
Do I turn the string on for 1/20th or 1/4th of a second? Do I turn the first string off before, during or after I turn on the second string and how much before or after. How many strings do I have on at once? Or do I fade them off? How fast do I fade them off? What if I want to do a slow spin? Or have a row of mini trees move up and down. By analyzing someone else’s sequence I can figure it out.

Even MORE helpful is if there is a corresponding video clip. I have a horrible time ‘visualizing’ the end result, even using the animation screen. Don’s sharing of his sequence was much appreciated, I can watch the video as his sequence/animation plays out and it all makes more sense to me.

I have seen ‘yard grids’ that blink, move back, forth, up & down. Some move too fast, some to slow. If I had a sequence/clip of a grid that I liked, it would give me a starting point to take off from. I am guessing that ‘chasing’ a row of mini trees spaced 3 feet apart would have different timing than if 18” apart in order to achieve the same effect. I don’t know where to start with either one. I know that I will resequence it many times over, but I would like to start somewhere in the same ballpark.

A week or two ago, Dan posted the spinning mega tree sequence & animation screen. That was a big help. Even the animation screen drawing out the 16 channels of the tree was so much clearer than my garbled attempt. I still figure that I’ll need to set up a 4’ mega tree in the den so I can work out the sequences that I want.

In regards to the songs, what would be helpful would be ‘pre-tapped’ channels of common pieces. IE: If I could start with a pre-tapped beat channel for WIW, that would be a time saver. I generally turn the sound off when I am trying to figure out how to do something.

Well, I have rambled on long enough. A ‘Library of Events’ with sequences, animation & videos of 10-20 seconds of various types of events would be a great help. I am hoping that the sequences that Dan is planning on offering will fulfill my needs.

Evelyn

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The thing that helped me understand the sequencing the most was the sequence and animation that Don a while back, particularly when I watched the video of the actual display. This will be my first season for a display, but think it would be extremely difficult to use someone else's sequence unless both displays were the same.

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