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Selling your Sequences?

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The title is slightly misleading as nothing like it exists so far. However, I have been researching the idea of sponsoring a website to sell sequences, timing grids, etc. Obviously, one person can not produce sequences very fast, so the plan hinges on people selling their sequences (to the website) so they can be sold on the website in turn. To prevent rambling, I’ll get right to point.



The plan calls for buying sequences at $20-50+ each. Obviously, less channels will go for less, more channels will go for more. For retail, the plan calls for around $5-$10 for blank grids, and $10-$20 for higher channel counts and complete shows. (80+ channels)



I could give you more details, but I want to see what you think first. The real question is, are you interested in selling and/or buying sequences? The business plan looks good on paper, so I am looking for a reality check. Questions/comments/ideas/suggestions?



*These numbers are projections in a business plan. I am not offering to buy or sell sequences at this time.

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I am against "selling" sequences but I would be verry happy to share mine with anyone that wants them for FREE.







--Daniel L

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yea

me too, i think that 15-20 dollers is too much if you will still have to reprogram it to fit your show

if you want sequences just ask in the lor thread. I myself , and others i know would be happy to share

ask and you shall recieve

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I downloaded several of the sequences from the free page last year, just to see how others did it. What I found was that my preferences didn't match what was out there. These shows are good, mind you, but I'm glad I was able to check them all out for free rather than having to spend money on them to find out that they weren't my style. I prefer to sequence my own shows, your mileage may vary.

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Here is my 2 cents. I do not have a problem with people selling their sequences-if the price is right, but you have to remember that even though the sequence is done, it will have to be reworked like others have said to fit your display. I had a few sequences given to me last year, but I still had to rework it to fit my display.

As for selling them-Darryl is getting ready to sell them on his website. He has got it setup as a 16 channel grid, then the buyer cut and paste for my channels. So-trying to sell a 32,48,72 or whatever the channel amount is most likely will not sell. Selling a 16 channel grid will-then the buyer adds the amount of channels needed.

I also believe that LOR will have some sequences for sale later in the year. So, the demand for another site might not be that high. I also like to trade sequences with other users.

I am partly deaf in both ears (About 20%) which is correct with a hearing aid. I have a diffcult time in hearing the beats in a song. This is why I do not mind trading or paying a small fee for a sequence. I can work with a already done sequence to make it fit my needs.

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Hello Mike

Yep, I kinda have to agree with everyone so far.

I posted an idea of TRADING sequences a short while back and had some great trades (thank you everyone that has so far). Some people are willing to trade and some are not (and I can understand why). But for some to sell/buy, I don't know how that would go over, especially if folks are willing to share/trade already. Now I might buy a sequence of a seriously sequenced song with lots of instruments and such that might be pretty hard to do myself, but so far, the folks on this chat site have been very generous and very nice about sharing/trading their sequences.

Good luck, Tom

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It's early, and my thoughts are fragmented ... but here goes.

I'm always broke, so if I could get someone to buy my sequences, I'd be all for it.

Now, the reality is that I edit all of my music in some way, which means the sequence file is going to be useless to 99% of the population. (The 1% being those who would take the time to figure out how I edited the music. Don't ask me though, I don't usually remember all of the details.)

I distributed my Queen of the Winter Night sequence file a month or so ago. From the feedback I got, it helped many people get an idea how they might program their own show. However, I edited that music down, so most people are not going to be using that in their display this year.

Selling a sequence is more than just the file. You would have to layout the design for a person as well. You could design sequences for 16 mini trees, or 8 trees with two colors. People would then have to build those items for their display.

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Not to mention, the "sticky gray" area of piggy-backing on someone else's intellectual property for monetary gain.

For example, I create an awe-inspiring sequence to the now infamous TSO tune. We're talking 80+ channels of Christmas magic that I decide to sell for 20 dollars. Assuming I have not edited the musical piece at all, and I don't sell the accompanying MP3, am I still not dependent on the musical piece? Would TSO be entitled to a piece of that 20 dollars?

I, for one, would think selling a musical sequence would be illegal, unless you sold it with a music file that you created yourself. Just my opinion. I am quite content to share/trade files (Thanks, Tom!) with people.

~K

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This kind of sounds like an old cartoon. Didn't Snoopy lose site of the goal and commercialize christmas? Sounds like the next thing would be to sell tickets to the light shows then sell advice on how to do this and how to do that...

This hobby started out as a free exchange of ideas. I understand the need for the retail market but I don't believe that should be the way everyone goes about things. If some of the old folks didn't share with me, I would have never been able to do what I have done in the past. I appreciate what they have done for me and have always offered what I could in return for free. It helps build a strong core of ideas for everyone to build on.

Just my 2 cents... I don't want to dis anyone... I am just old and cheap.

Joe

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Kaeleb wrote:

Assuming I have not edited the musical piece at all, and I don't sell the accompanying MP3, am I still not dependent on the musical piece? Would TSO be entitled to a piece of that 20 dollars?

You are not dependent on the music at all! The sequence I released didn't have the music information attached. In fact, it was released as an animation only sequence.

Suppose all you do is fade your lights between colors at various times in the music. You could simply run that without music, and it wouldn't matter.

I don't see where any group would be able to claim any copyright on it at all, seeing as how you can run the lights without the music. Just so happens it goes better with the music, but it's not required.

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Don wrote:

I don't see where any group would be able to claim any copyright on it at all, seeing as how you can run the lights without the music. Just so happens it goes better with the music, but it's not required.

Kinda like the whole "Wizard of Oz/Dark Side of the Moon" thing... The movie is much better with the music sync'ed up. :laughing:

But seriously, I get your point, Don. It just seems kind of sketchy to me to try and profit from selling sequences made for a specific piece.

What about this scenario: what if a business were to set up a light show, animated to music, and were to run this during business hours. What would be the liability to the copyright holder of the music?

Not trying to be a nay-sayer, just curious as to the legality of it all. For those of us that do Halloween stuff, Midnight Syndicate has set up a deal that allows the use of their music publicly in this type of capacity (there is a simple form that they ask to be filled out and a poster for your business crediting them with the music).

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Excellent avatar too by the way,we all relate,tap,tap,tap,tap,tap,..............

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jeffmill wrote:

any other of the under 21 group... what do you guys think?

Some of us old folks can sequence too, you know!

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ok, but will these be availble to every one or just for you.

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Hey Jeff,

Put those back. We are all different and different is good.

Don was just stating, don't leave us old folks out (with a smile :]). And in a humorous way.

(Hey I did the same thing, removed something I thought was stupid" and Don said "hey, put that back". So I did.)

Tom

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Ok, just a few thoughts.

I wouldn't sell them... I am sure people may buy but I find it wouldn't be all that useful. No one is going to have the same display as the person they bought them from. Also, no one would be happy with someone elses programming. The only people I would see buying them would be people that want an example to help them get started.

Zac

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Let me clarify a few things. You are correct that is a poor idea to sell raw sequences as they are purchased. They have very limited usability.

Basically, I wanted to be able to work on sequences. I have been creating my own sequences, but I don't really have a display they are for. This is what gave me the idea for site, because nothing like it exists, and I think it could be a valuable resource. Going along with that, the idea developed into several highlights:
- To get and offer a collection of sequences
- To maintain a website to promote LOR sequencing
- To make LOR sequecing an easier process
- To increase the length and quality of LOR shows

The initial intent was more service oriented. The idea was to become a resource, which is like some of you have done with sharing. I wanted to create this type of thing, but I didn't want pay out of pocket for it. (Yes, i am that cheap!) :laughing:

In order to make the site a usable resource, it would need a large "library" of material, something I can't design fast enough. I didn't think people would just hand out sequences, which is why I came up with the buy/sell idea. I was dreaming big, like having video animations for each sequence and/or videos of the actual display. After considering the scale of the project (especially if it caught on and became popular), I was looking a large expense for the webspace and bandwidth to download the videos. I created a plan for the site and a mock budget to see if it would work, hence the initial post with numbers above. So now you know the origin of the idea.

OK, that's already a book and a half, so I'll save the second half of the explaination for later. Basically, I was looking at converting the sequences into timing grids, "half" sequences (giving important beats, timings, and flourishes the grid was designed for), and full shows with different layouts. The grid and half sequences are display independent, so you build whatever show you like. Having the grid pre-done just removes the tedious factor.

I will leave you with an example. We are all familiar with Don's display. I grabbed a pre-done timing grid and produced a sequence quite similar to Don's. The only major difference is I included red and green flood lights in the animation, which exacts don's Coca Cola display. The first files have the animation only, the 2nd files show the animation and channels in LOR. You can see the full display, and the little animation in the upper right hand corner is what I'm calling a half sequence. The files are identical, one 1meg and one 3meg depending on your speed! :)

http://hilltop.bradley.edu/~mfarney/lights/


Do your opinions stay the same?

Thanks for your comments. You pointed out a lot of things to consider (some of which I hadn't thought of before!)

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Like the saying goes, "Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll be out on the lake every weekend."

Okay, it's really, "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

So maybe "fishing" lessons would be more useful than swapping sequences. Perhaps the lessons could be developed into a variety of approaches that could be used. Although I like the idea for compiling a collection of cue lists to save time sequencing specific songs.

Tom

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Theres an idea!

I also love your analogy.

However, even if there were extensive "how to's" then we would be redoing what Dan has been coming up with and is continuing to develop. We have all seen his videos... Seems pointless to make new ones.

Also, if you really wanna learn to sequence, go to PLUS 2007!

Zac

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I think it all boils down to the marks on the sequence board. I don't care how many channels or where those channels are going to. Mine, just like everyone elses shows will be different (as explained earlier). The mark of an instrument, a voice, a boom or bang. I think some test sequences would help in the form of timing of marks on a sequence from songs/music (several channels of timing marks only, not a whole yard show). This would save a bunch of time in creating a new sequence of marks while repeatly listening to the audio over and over (which can eat up a lot of time). If created and shared/traded/bought, now you have the mark, now make it your own creation. That's what I think would be helpful for some (if not many). It's a start anyway. Now, to pay for marks on a sequence? Well the person doing the marking better have a good ear.

Just my thoughts,

Tom

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I think T Smith is right on. Yes there would be people that would buy full, partial ect. sequinces. Which I could see being helpful. But on the other hand I think most need to focus on teaching others how to use LOR more productively. If people know completely how to do the work themselves then there more likely to stick with the hobby.

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I say go ahead set up your website. You may have limited interest, and it may not go over at all, but if you really want to do it and there are no legal implications, then go for it! Maybe it takes off, maybe it doesn't.

25 years ago, nobody thought that selling Personal Computers to the average consumer would ever go over. Why would somebody ever need their own computer?

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