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Well spoken. The wiki hosted by Don has almost anything you need regarding LOR. There is also alot of information here on PC.

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Jeff,

Thanks for pointing out Don's LOR Wiki it is AWESOME! As a newbie who doesn't understand much of the terminology used in connection with LOR yet, this is a gold mine of information. There are even pictures relating many unfamiliar terms to the actual dohicky!

What I was especially surprised to see were the animated demos. They are very easy to pick up on. Thanks to this, my first LOR light has now come on....the one over my head, LOL.

I just made my first trip back to the LOR homepage since the spring sale and the Flash demos are posted there too, along with a bit of pdf documentation. I'm not sure if these are Dan's or Don's but a hearty thank you to all involved!

Thanks for the roadmap guys!

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1 simple question what is LOR WIKI?

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Simple question #2. There's an LOR wiki?

Simple question #3. Where is it?

TED

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TED wrote:

Simple question #2. There's an LOR wiki?

Simple question #3. Where is it?

TED

The address is at the bottom of my signature. Has been from Day One.

You should also see a topic at the top of the LOR forum.

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Jeff_Womack wrote:

2. If you can't find anything there, email Dan Baldwin at info@lightorama.com for help directly from the company.

3. Finally if that still doesn't work then you can panic on PC.

Skipping directly to step three is disrespectful to Dan and all he has done for this community in my opinion. Flame away. :cryingdevil:

I respect the intent of your position, but I have to disagree with it.

A community forum is the perfect place for problems because it socializes the issues and resolutions with the community. If you have a problem, and you bypass the community, then the community does not get the benefit of having the question asked and answered.

I'm glad that not every problem goes straight to Dan, because I learn more about the product that way.

Regarding item #1 [wiki]... can't disagree with that. I could add a #0 which I personally seem to forget: use the online help function in the software. :P

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>>>>A community forum is the perfect place for problems because it socializes the issues and resolutions with the community. If you have a problem, and you bypass the community, then the community does not get the benefit of having the question asked and answered.<<<<

I agree. We need to discuss problems and solutions out in the community, it's the only way to learn.

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Let me take these one by one...

> I want LOR II software right now, why isn't it out?

Considering the number of times that this question has come up, it is, by definition, a Frequently Asked Question. And now and then, Dan sneaks out some sort of hint as to when he thinks it is going to be released. Which people follow. So this is an extremely legitimate question. [if not impertinently rephrased.]

> My [project] board is [1/2] dead someone help me! (Hint contact Dan! Don't freak out other new users for an isolated problem)

If you are sure the main logic is just plain dead/broken, a person is going to get faster service going to the manufacturer first, obviously. But the commmunity is where he went with his question, which is what it is there for.

In the absence of a good response from the community, Dan replied in the thread with some good advice to everyone for things to check when you have a dead 1/2 of a board. So this was a pretty positive community experience... Dan provided a list of low hanging fruit to diagnose first. From Dan's last reply, it would appear that his suggestions solved this particular case.

I think freaking out new users shouldn't be too much of a regular user's concern. With any product, someone has to reasonably expect a few broken units. (And it isn't our place to turn this into a PR channel... it is a community forum. Should we create a PR forum for LOR with only positive messages? It would serve a different purpose than this forum.)

And if there actually is a flood of broken unit threads [there isn't, of course], LOR does have a legitimate problem which the community of users would want an answer to. Even if unflattering to LOR.

> Why are you going to give me a 10% discount but yet maybe not ship my product, (even though you told me so ahead of time), for up to three months.

I can't find this thread in particular, but not every thread in a community forum needs to be razor sharp on-topic, new issue. And chances are, if one person asked, you've got two lurkers who are thinking the same thing. So while not the greatest question in the world, it is still quite legitimate for a community forum.

> Discuss issues of course, but give Dan the respect he deserves and let him know about the problem first so he can potentially correct the situation.

I think you may be a little too sensitive to Dan's potential feelings. Remember also that this forum benefits Dan. An active community is a good selling point for his product. It lets him know what his customers are thinking, and what issues or features are important to them. It reduces the frustration within the userbase. It also reduces the load that customers demand from him, when users can take their problems to the forum. Even if they aren't happy issues.

Is every message going to be a golden winner? Probably not. (And seeing a large number of recently questions, even goofy, encourages more activity. That AL forum is kind of dull, isn't it?) I wouldn't be so quick to rush to someone's honor based on these questions. The community is working just fine... in fact... seemingly better than most. Need we place limitations on it to potentially protect Dan's feelings?

Regarding Dan's customer service... seems great. I view this discussion board as an extension of Dan's service.

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>>However that being said, the posts like:

Why are you going to give me a 10% discount but yet maybe not ship my product, (even though you told me so ahead of time), for up to three months.

My board is dead someone help me! (Hint contact Dan! Don't freak out other new users for an isolated problem)

I want LOR II software right now, why isn't it out?

all three are real life examples of posts

...are not productive and tend to spook a lot of new LOR users for no reason. If you didn't know Dan has great customer service it is time to pull your head out of the sand. Show him some respect and let him know about a problem first. <<<<

Well, if you want to put it "that" way, you are right. :P

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Bill Hoffman wrote:

Well, if you want to put it "that" way, you are right. :P


Actually, I'd say that his message could easily have a negative unintended effect: to scare users from posting in the community forum. [For justification, see above.] I see that Jeff's post is well-meaning. But sometimes the well-meaning folks with strong feelings can cause some unintended damage along the way.

EDIT: I just added the LOR II release question to the Wiki, under the FAQ/Other section. I don't see this preventing the issue being discussed, but it may proactively answer a few questions. Then again, it might raise more. (Newbies asking, "What is LOR II?")

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Jeff_Womack wrote:

................
My board is dead someone help me! (Hint contact Dan! Don't freak out other new users for an isolated problem)
............

Ok this one I can see on from two sides. Side one because I am also a brand new user of LOR. Anyone that may of hopped on board the LOR craze because of the WIW video or saw something else and said I gotta have that but really hasnt been around PC and or done a lot of research could easily get spooked with a comment like that. Personally I have a feeling that there could be a lot of new users that havn't done a lot of research into LOR. Yet like I said I am a new user also and placed an order of about a grand, now does that comment spook me, no. The reasons why are because #1 I know whatever the problem is it will be fixed, #2 (research) knowing that LOR had a problem that was somewhat similar because of a bad card earlier in the year, that could be the problem (and that problem was solved), #3 Even though I havn't personally met Dan, I know he is an honest man and would help solve the problem.

So that being said, do I think a comment like the one posted should of been posted. Yes and No. The way it was worded could have started a panic. But I think some research should have been done, if nothing was found then I think Dan should have been contacted. Also thou I think a post should have been placed saying how the problem was solved so that any other new user could read that so they know what to or not to do.

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> The way it was worded could have started a panic.

Well, I think you're taking Jeff's dramatic interpretation of the topics as what literally happened. It isn't.

I'm assuming this is in reference to the recent thread called, "CTB16D channels 1 - 8 dead 9 to 16 work." Hardly a panic inducer. Here... go read it...
http://planetchristmas.mywowbb.com/forum25/5283.html

A (official/unofficial) ban of dead board discussions is silly. Even those should be welcome for discussion. EDIT: And in the end, THAT particularly thread is a prime example of why it should be in the forums. It had some great things to go check out, which actually solved the problem.

EDIT2: And actually, if this were a case of a dead board, this is the perfect opportunity to Dan to showcase his support. (Or even to educate the customers on what is or is not supported.) Should we rob Dan of an opportunity to show one of the great reasons to buy LOR products?

EDIT3: I really do appreciate Jeff's position as well-meaning. It just seems to rob everyone, all the way around. Even Dan.

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I agree with JM on this topic. I would think that the community forum would be exactly the place to discuss everything about LOR be it good or bad. If Dan feels the need to limit what should be discussed, so be it, it's his products community.

The open discussion and sharing of ideas, problems, issues etc. is precisely what makes this discussion board such a valuable forum for all of us.

I'd love to stay and chat some more but... My controllers just arrived! :waycool:

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Who said not to post things on here? Talk about drama and putting words into others posts. Thanks for all the PMs and responses backing my position up. I guess I asked for it when I said "flame away."

Jeff

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To help keep things in perspective, just remember to follow the three fundamental PlanetChristmas rules:


  • Positive
  • Family Friendly
  • Christmas Centric


Simple but powerful.

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> Who said not to post things on here?

Your intital post is now MIA. But I believe your steps were...

1. Wiki
2. Email Dan
3. PC Forum

EDIT: If I misinterpreted your position, then accept my apologies.

I respect what I saw as the intent of your position, and believe it was well intentioned. But I disagreed with it. The order I saw as having the most benefit are...

0. Bult-in help
1. Wiki
2. PC Forum
3. Email Dan

Skip over some of these to #3 as an exception, like you saw the magic smoke coming from the board, you don't want others to knowi your issues, you dislike forums [natural lurker], etc etc.

Apologies for labeling your sample subjects as 'dramatic'.

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I think this topic has been worked through so I am going to close it but I am going to try and get in the last word.



I do not mind people posting issues about LOR here but I do have a pet peeve.:) If you make a post that there is a problem with a LOR product it would be nice if you could post the resolution. Quite often it is user error and the problem is a configuration or wiring problem but that doesn’t exonerate us at LOR. The root cause can be inadequate or incorrect documentation and with feedback we can make improvements. Oh yes, documentation! (Another pet peeve…. It is ok to read the instructions!;))

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