DLH lites Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 Ok Yall , I have been plagued this season with lots of rain and lots of GFCI (all new GFCI outlets) clicking, funny one controller of three that are plugged into the same outlet seems to be the trigger. I wore myself out trying all the plugs one at a time and nothing but this one controller still pops the breaker. So, I plugged it into a none GFCI and it works great, could this controller be more prone to slight ground fault ?????? The other two controller work great They are 16 channels ac that were built from kits , this one thats is causing the problem is two years old. Controller number four ,nada no problem. Much a pain because my neighbors static display works in a monsoon golly David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDucks Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 Is this a DC powered controller? Those supplies can develop high leakage current in the EMI filter circuity. Not anywhere bad enough to blow breakers. But be aware that the ground (green wire) must be very reliable, another user had one keep frying his RS485 adapters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLH lites Posted December 31, 2019 Author Share Posted December 31, 2019 Duck, these are four ac 16 channel controllers, now that I have plugged the problem controller into a different circuit, all systems go even with all the rain we had today, was gona start passing out snorkels and wet suites so much rain golly. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kapkirk Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 DLH I have been having similar problems with my GFCI outlets. Normal rain of 1/2 to 1 inch is no problem but seems we are having more than normal this Christmas, we have had 3 periods of more rain and those are the days I had to move the plugs to non GFCI outlets or go dark. One night we had 3 1/2 inch's another over 2 inch's and both those nights I lost half the house. I don't have any thing sitting in water, and no tomato cage tree's but something was triggering the darkness. I am thinking next year I was going to make more attempts to isolate the plugs from the ground. At least I have a lot of time for that thought process as we are without rain till Friday and we are going dark New Years day. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcktpwrd Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 We also have issues with popping the GFI's in the rain. I think our main issue is that I have 3 controllers all on the same outlet and the voltage leaks add up... I am planning on adding additional circuits to separate the controllers. I will also go over everything as we take it down to check for nicks/cuts in any of the wiring. Power/amp wise we don't need the extra circuits but spreading out the GFI load should help. I have the tomato cage trees off the ground on pvc pipe, all the plugs are elevated on stakes and any female plugs that are facing up have the outlet cover plugs in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLH lites Posted December 31, 2019 Author Share Posted December 31, 2019 Keith, This past week we had so much rain it covered all my floods that are in holders in the ground , the water mark was almost to the top of our tune to sign. Of course it was working great for the few hours before our Christmas party ,but one hour before it just poured and click 2/3 of the house was out . Very frustrating . I protected all the connections as best I could but still got shut down. We have never had a December like this in 15 years. I was out there till 1:30 in the morning trying to figure it all out . What a pain, but what makes it all worth while is the smiles of wonderment that people have when they stop watch and listen to the lites , me included. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kapkirk Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 David I know what you mean of the smiles of all the people, especially the kids. Makes it all worth the sweat. I was out tonight thinking only one more night and a nice lady leans out her window to say thanks, I really appreciate those chance meetings. I was also thankful for a dry night, no issues is a good night. I do not like to move the power to non GFI circuits, I am going to do a little more investigating, like Joel or Rctpwrd stated, I haven't thought of the cumulative effect. I had 8 controllers on those 2 GFI circuits, all LED so I didn't think it was too much. I think I will put a wattmeter on those circuits tomorrow just to see. Maybe I'm pushing it and didn't know. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDucks Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 If you don't need the AMPS: just put 2 or 3 GFCI outlets on the same branch circuit to distribute the leakage. 3 packs of these can save a few $ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kapkirk Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 5 hours ago, TheDucks said: If you don't need the AMPS: just put 2 or 3 GFCI outlets on the same branch circuit to distribute the leakage. 3 packs of these can save a few $ So, if I understand you correctly all I need do is put 2 or 3 additional GFCI outlets wired to the same circuit, the cumulative effect is by outlet not circuit.I see the cumulative effect being changed that way, guess I just thought it was going to be harder or more complicated. Wiring in a new outlet next to another is vey simple, and then I can plug controllers directly instead of using 3 way adapters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 35 minutes ago, Kapkirk said: So, if I understand you correctly all I need do is put 2 or 3 additional GFCI outlets wired to the same circuit, the cumulative effect is by outlet not circuit.I see the cumulative effect being changed that way, guess I just thought it was going to be harder or more complicated. Wiring in a new outlet next to another is vey simple, and then I can plug controllers directly instead of using 3 way adapters. Just keep in mind that there are several ways to wire a GFCI receptacle depending on the type of protection you are wanting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orville Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) I actually did have 1 GFCI trip this Christmas Season in the rain, and of course it was at a time when I was not home to find or correct it, so display was dark until I got home just before the show was supposed to end. Wondered why the show wasn't still running, since it still had about 20 minutes left to run. A Neighbor told me it had shut down about an hour after I had left. So one night the show was completely dark until I got home and fixed the problem. First time in years I've had the GFCI click off. But I found the culprit, had a cord on one item that had gotten nicked somehow, used an X-Acto knife and separated the cords from each other, covered each side with Flex Seal, let that dry, then covered both together with Flex Seal and never had another issue the entire season, no matter how hard the rain got. Was fortunate the cord was easy to get to and fix, and I didn't have to go through the entire display to find it. Was lucky it was very near the CTB16PC V2 Controller that was controlling the item. Edited December 31, 2019 by Orville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orville Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Mr. P said: Just keep in mind that there are several ways to wire a GFCI receptacle depending on the type of protection you are wanting. I had several wired on the same circuit one year when I was having issues with the one tripping every time it rained, after I added the 2 additional ones, only the one that tripped would shut down only that part of the display and not the entire display. But I usually don't have that issue any longer and only use one GFCI for my entire display. Aside from what happened this year with my GFCI getting tripped in the rain {see my other post above}, I haven't had a GFCI trip in years now. Edited December 31, 2019 by Orville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kapkirk Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 8 minutes ago, Mr. P said: Just keep in mind that there are several ways to wire a GFCI receptacle depending on the type of protection you are wanting. Now you lost me, how can a outlet be wired differently to achieve different results?I am not an electrician but have wired up a lot of outlets and thought I knew what I was doing, now you have me second guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, Kapkirk said: Now you lost me, how can a outlet be wired differently to achieve different results?I am not an electrician but have wired up a lot of outlets and thought I knew what I was doing, now you have me second guessing. Depending on how you wire the receptacle you either shutdown just the receptacle affected or the affected receptacle and everything past it. How the receptacle operates depends on how it is wired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 Keep in mind that a GFCI receptacle has a line side and a load side. If you want all receptacles on the circuit to operate or shut down individually then all wiring is on the line side only, load side will not be used. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kapkirk Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mr. P said: Keep in mind that a GFCI receptacle has a line side and a load side. If you want all receptacles on the circuit to operate or shut down individually then all wiring is on the line side only, load side will not be used. Ok now I remember the load and line, I had forgotten a non GFI outlet could become a GFI outlet when wired on the load side of the outlet, so to increase the cumulative effect we have been talking of you would wire the additional outlets from the line side to every outlet, otherwise the first outlet would handle all the load for the others and reduce the cumulative effect. Correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Kapkirk said: Ok now I remember the load and line, I had forgotten a non GFI outlet could become a GFI outlet when wired on the load side of the outlet, so to increase the cumulative effect we have been talking of you would wire the additional outlets from the line side to every outlet, otherwise the first outlet would handle all the load for the others and reduce the cumulative effect. Correct? You got it. 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kapkirk Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 Mr P Just like a muscle in the body, stop using it and it goes bad, the muscle on top of your shoulders also has to keep active also or it becomes bad. Now I just have to exercise the brain on how I tell my old shipmates a retired Army guy is teaching an old sea dog old tricks. LOL Thanks Army, Navy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 8 minutes ago, Kapkirk said: Mr P Just like a muscle in the body, stop using it and it goes bad, the muscle on top of your shoulders also has to keep active also or it becomes bad. Now I just have to exercise the brain on how I tell my old shipmates a retired Army guy is teaching an old sea dog old tricks. LOL Thanks Army, Navy All one brotherhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orville Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 7 hours ago, Mr. P said: Keep in mind that a GFCI receptacle has a line side and a load side. If you want all receptacles on the circuit to operate or shut down individually then all wiring is on the line side only, load side will not be used. That's how I had wired mine, each one was independent of the others on the same circuit. Although I noticed that those that have dual lights, red for tripped and green for working, the green "working" lights did not function when there was no load wired to any of them, but the red light still lit when tripped. I thought that was kind of odd, as I had expected the green light to work to show it was functioning correctly. But when tested, they did what they were supposed to do. So I guess that's all that counts, doing what they were supposed to do when wired that way {Line only side}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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