USB-RS485-HS connecting to two controllers

[Sijaan]

I have two LOR1602Wg3-MP3 controllers connected together (by cat5 cable - both to NEtwork1).
I just received the USB-RS485-HS adapter and I dont know how can I connect my two controllers to my PC. I managed to connect to only one of them only after connecting to where the other controller was connected.
How can I see my two controllers on my PC?

[Orville]

52 minutes ago, Sijaan said:

I have two LOR1602Wg3-MP3 controllers connected together (by cat5 cable - both to NEtwork1).
I just received the USB-RS485-HS adapter and I dont know how can I connect my two controllers to my PC. I managed to connect to only one of them only after connecting to where the other controller was connected.
How can I see my two controllers on my PC?

If you have the 2 controllers daisy chained together, that is cat cat5 from USB-RS485-HS adapter to first controller {cat5 cable #1}, then first controller cat5 {Cat5 cable #2} to 2nd controller.  that requires 2 cat5 cables to accomplish.

Then open the HU, click refresh, make sure NO OTHER LOR software is open!  Once in the HU, click refresh, and you should be able to see Controller 01, the use the down arrow in the drop down window to see the 2nd controller.   However, if BOTH controllers have the SAME ID, the HU will only show ONE controller.  make sure ach has it's own ID, then you will be able to see each one and test each one independently from the other.

 

[Sijaan]

30 minutes ago, Orville said:

If you have the 2 controllers daisy chained together, that is cat cat5 from USB-RS485-HS adapter to first controller {cat5 cable #1}, then first controller cat5 {Cat5 cable #2} to 2nd controller.  that requires 2 cat5 cables to accomplish.

Then open the HU, click refresh, make sure NO OTHER LOR software is open!  Once in the HU, click refresh, and you should be able to see Controller 01, the use the down arrow in the drop down window to see the 2nd controller.   However, if BOTH controllers have the SAME ID, the HU will only show ONE controller.  make sure ach has it's own ID, then you will be able to see each one and test each one independently from the other.

 

"then first controller cat5 {Cat5 cable #2} to 2nd controller" 
It doesn't matter to which input/output I connect them together? because I can only connect 2 cat5 cables to each controller, one to network1 and the second to network 2.
Do you have any picture explaining the input outputs?

[Orville]

8 minutes ago, Sijaan said:

"then first controller cat5 {Cat5 cable #2} to 2nd controller" 
It doesn't matter to which input/output I connect them together? because I can only connect 2 cat5 cables to each controller, one to network1 and the second to network 2.
Do you have any picture explaining the input outputs?

It doesn't matter.  But if you're using 2 networks, then you select the Comm Port that controller is on, then in the HU you will have to refresh on Comm 1 for example being network 1, Comm 2 would be network 2 and would need to refresh again, once you select the 2nd comm port the 2nd network uses.  Your Comm ports may NOT be the same as my examples, they could be Comm3 and Comm 4 as an example.

With 2 networks, you will NOT see both controllers at the same time in the HU,  matter of act, you will never see more than ONE Controller at a time in the HU.  Each change of the network comm port requires a refresh each time to find the controller on that network. 

As for the cat5 jack in the controllers, either one can be input or output, it doesn't matter as they are paralleled in the controller, and both jack either are an input or output, input if only one cat5 is connected, when the 2nd cat5 is connected, whichever cat5 jack you plugged it into becomes the output jack,

Well, I've got to head out to Church now.  Be back later and will check back {around 2pm-3pm} if you have any other questions.

Edited December 8, 2019 by Orville

[Sijaan]

4 minutes ago, Orville said:

It doesn't matter.  But if you're using 2 networks, then you select the Comm Port that controller is on, then in the HU you will have to refresh on Comm 1 for example being network 1, Comm 2 would be network 2 and would need to refresh again, once you select the 2nd comm port the 2nd network uses.  Your Comm ports may NOT be the same as my examples, they could be Comm3 and Comm 4 as an example.

With 2 networks, you will NOT see both controllers at the same time in the HU,  matter of act, you will never see more than ONE Controller at a time in the HU.  Each change of the network comm port requires a refresh each time to find the controller on that network. 

As for the cat5 jack in the controllers, either one can be input or output, it doesn't matter as they are paralleled in the controller, and both jack either are an input or output, input if only one cat5 is connected, when the 2nd cat5 is connected, whichever cat5 jack you plugged it into becomes the output jack,

Well, I've got to head out to Church now.  Be back later and will check back {around 2pm-3pm} if you have any other questions.

"With 2 networks, you will NOT see both controllers at the same time in the HU,  matter of act, you will never see more than ONE Controller at a time in the HU.  Each change of the network comm port requires a refresh each time to find the controller on that network. " 

This is the sentence I was looking for! Thanks a lot mate!

[Mr. P]

You are only running one network, the RJ45's don't determine the network. You need to make sure that both controllers have different ID numbers, one should be ID 01 and the other should be ID 02. They both come shipped to you set at ID 01 so that is why you are only seeing one ID.

Computer ------> USB485HS------Cat5------ Controller 01------Cat5--------Controller 02.

[TheDucks]

Again, the order of controllers does not matter. The number of Networks (Adapters does not really mater. JUST NEVER connect a cable between 2 controllers on different Networks)

eg; (This years arrangement. very simple animated show  ) Look at the crazy numbering (the order is from when bought and built the controller boxes)

Computer (Com12) -- Black LOR (Regular,115K) ---- CTB16v2#02---CMB24#07-CMB24#05

Computer (Com14) - Red LOR (AuxA, 500K) --- Pixie4#30-CMB24#04--CTB16v3#08

Computer(Com15) - Red LOR (AuxB,500K) --- Pixie8#04--CTB16v3#020-CMB24#03--Pixie4#38--CTB16v3#01

You use the Network utility to Map COM# to LOR adapter (and set the speed).  The rest of LOR uses the NETWORK  NAME. Label your adapters with the name.  Windows remembers Com#'s  and the adapter will use that next time connected.

💡 Don't click the OK if HU offers to change a found adapter to Regular for your show. That will mess up your previous  Network Configuration. HU will find any controller connected to the selected COM-adapter pair.

[Don]

Please stop trying to do this.

DON'T use two MP3's as your only two controllers. Just don't. You mentioned in your last thread about this that you have a 1602Wg3 as well. Use that and one director.

I can't stress this enough. STOP doing this. You are making things hard on yourself, and everyone else who is trying to help. You have two controllers in your display. I know of no logical reason why you would try and use two MP3's on the same network.

 

[Richard Hamilton]

4 hours ago, TheDucks said:

Again, the order of controllers does not matter. The number of Networks (Adapters does not really mater. JUST NEVER connect a cable between 2 controllers on different Networks)

Right.  I am even having a hard time understanding how that would even work anyway.  Also can't understand why to do it.

[Don]

11 hours ago, Sijaan said:

How can I see my two controllers on my PC?

If you insist on using two directors, you never will.

Use one director and one controller.

[Mr. P]

7 minutes ago, Don said:

If you insist on using two directors, you never will.

Use one director and one controller.

My understanding is that you can use two as long as you only put a card in one. If the second does not have a card then it will act as a normal light controller.

You can use a 1602MP3 on a network that is controlled by a computer as long as it doesn't have a card inserted so why not another 1602MP3?

[Orville]

13 hours ago, Mr. P said:

My understanding is that you can use two as long as you only put a card in one. If the second does not have a card then it will act as a normal light controller.

You can use a 1602MP3 on a network that is controlled by a computer as long as it doesn't have a card inserted so why not another 1602MP3?

Since I've never done it, my theory would be is that having 2 MP3 Directors connected on the SAME network could be very problematic.  I would think that even if the 2nd Director DOES NOT have an SD Card inserted, the Director in the 2nd unit may pick-up what is on the SD Card in the first controller, and it could cause 1 or the other, or even both controllers to get confused, and possibly really foul up and play havoc with your display.   Well that's my theory on why you should never do it.

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Orville
th3 changed to the

[Mr. P]

9 minutes ago, Orville said:

Since I've never done it, my theory would be is that having 2 MP3 Directors connected on the SAME network could be very problematic.  I would think that even if the 2nd Director DOES NOT have an SD Card inserted, the Director in the 2nd unit may pick-up what is on the SD Card in the first controller, and it could cause 1 or the other, or even both controllers to get confused, and possibly really foul up and play havoc with your display.   Well that's my theory on why you should never do it.

 

Then please tell me your theory on why you can use a 1602MP3 on a computer controlled network (page 14 of the manual). As long as there is no card inserted in the 1602MP3 it has no instructions on what to do as all instructions are written on the card. This would make it no smarter then a regular CTB16PC as it would have to receive its instructions from someplace else.

@DevMike could you please weigh in on this and clarify the capabilities and restrictions of the 1602MP3?

[Don]

30 minutes ago, Orville said:

Since I've never done it,

Then please don't further complicate the matter.

[TheDucks]

There can only be ONE   ---Highlander

Think about it! SD card is just the show. Now look down at your LOR PC's tool tray. Red Lightbulb, even if you don't have a Edit session or show running.  That is the communications layer talking (polling) to whatever is connected. Remember the should not be blinking light on each controller.. this is what makes it so.

The Director without a SD card is more like that red lightbulb. It is still there

[LOR Staff]

Sorry, I don't have time to read this entire thread.  Here is what you need to know about MP3 directors/etc.

There can only ever be ONE source of data on any wire.  That means a single MP3 director or single USB device that is actively sending data.

This holds true even for new G4 Directors with Multi-Link.

You can have multiple MP3 directors on the same network as long as only one of them has an SD card inserted at any one time.  As soon as an SD card is inserted into the MP3 director, even if that director is set to a schedule and there is no show playing, that MP3 director is actively sending data - it is sending heartbeats to all the controllers to keep them in sync.

For G4 directors with Multi-Link you still only ever have ONE director sending data out a single wire.  Each director is responsible for up to 3 wires, and then port 1 links all directors with sync information.

1602MP3s are kind of a weird thing since they are a hybrid, especially the 1602G3MP3 with it's 2 networks, But ignore NET 2 for now.  For those simply think of them as a stand alone MP3 and a stand alone controller.  The MP3 director is ALWAYS connected to one of the RJ45s.  The other RJ45 is available.  All RJ45s are electrically connected on a controller.  So in this case, you can use an LOR1602MP3 on a network with ANOTHER source of data - say a computer.  The problem comes in that there is only ONE RJ45 jack available (on net 1), so this controller can't be in the middle of a string - it has to be on one end or the other.  Only 1 jack means it has IN only.   The Controller portion will only ever run on NET 1 (either from the internal SD card, or this IN jack0

For the 1602G3MP3s that have 2 networks, Net 2 is NOT connected to NET 1 in any way, nor to the controller portion itself. The NET 2 jacks on the controller are solely OUTPUT only 

[Mr. P]

Thank you for the clarification.

[Sijaan]

3 hours ago, DevMike said:

Sorry, I don't have time to read this entire thread.  Here is what you need to know about MP3 directors/etc.

There can only ever be ONE source of data on any wire.  That means a single MP3 director or single USB device that is actively sending data.

This holds true even for new G4 Directors with Multi-Link.

You can have multiple MP3 directors on the same network as long as only one of them has an SD card inserted at any one time.  As soon as an SD card is inserted into the MP3 director, even if that director is set to a schedule and there is no show playing, that MP3 director is actively sending data - it is sending heartbeats to all the controllers to keep them in sync.

For G4 directors with Multi-Link you still only ever have ONE director sending data out a single wire.  Each director is responsible for up to 3 wires, and then port 1 links all directors with sync information.

1602MP3s are kind of a weird thing since they are a hybrid, especially the 1602G3MP3 with it's 2 networks, But ignore NET 2 for now.  For those simply think of them as a stand alone MP3 and a stand alone controller.  The MP3 director is ALWAYS connected to one of the RJ45s.  The other RJ45 is available.  All RJ45s are electrically connected on a controller.  So in this case, you can use an LOR1602MP3 on a network with ANOTHER source of data - say a computer.  The problem comes in that there is only ONE RJ45 jack available (on net 1), so this controller can't be in the middle of a string - it has to be on one end or the other.  Only 1 jack means it has IN only.   The Controller portion will only ever run on NET 1 (either from the internal SD card, or this IN jack0

For the 1602G3MP3s that have 2 networks, Net 2 is NOT connected to NET 1 in any way, nor to the controller portion itself. The NET 2 jacks on the controller are solely OUTPUT only 

 

3 hours ago, Mr. P said:

Thank you for the clarification.

With all that have been said, can I  run a show from my PC that includes the two 1602g3mp3 controllers?
 

[Mr. P]

If you are using a computer then no, you can use one if it is last in the network and no card in it

You can use both if you use one as a director with a card and it is first and the second is last with no card and you can use any other controllers in between.

[LOR Staff]

7 minutes ago, Sijaan said:

With all that have been said, can I  run a show from my PC that includes the two 1602g3mp3 controllers?

No.  You can use ONE of them, but not both.

There is only 1 NET 1 connection on those controllers.  If you use two of them, you have 'filled all the holes' and there is no way to put the USB signal into the network.

 

Edit:  Ninjaed!