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Gerald Corey

moving channels from one controller box to another

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I have already programmed several sequences and now realize that I need to move some of the elements to different control boxes due to proximity of the display and the minimizing the length of the electrical cords. Is there an easy way to do this? I guess I also have to reassign the particular item to the animation by new channel etc. Appreciate any help

Thanks

Rosemary & Gerald Corey

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I had to do the same thing myself. Its actually very easy!

go to tools, and channel property grid. You will have all the channels at your disposal to make changes..

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I've already done this on set up day. do just as mnkyboy said with s2 is is much easier



greg

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Gerald Corey wrote:

I guess I also have to reassign the particular item to the animation by new channel

The animation should not be affected by changes to the unit and circuit settings in the channel property grid.

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Thanks for the suggestions. My other problem is that I transfered the LOR2 and files to my laptop so I could work while on a trip. Problem is that the music files can't be found since they were on the original machine. I do have the music files on my laptop but they are under doc & settingsRosemarydesktop and not on doc & settingsGeralddesktop. Any suggestions on this? Thanks

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From the menu at the top of the program choose Edit / Media File, and point to the new location.



Long term, put the files in the Audio folder (within LOR’s default directory) and you shouldn’t have this problem.

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Gerald Corey wrote:

That suggestion did bring in the music file and wave form, but it won't play. Now it's telling me an open serial port has failed! What now!


serial port or comm port 8?



if its comm port 8, it just means you dont have your serial adapter plugged up. just click ok... It only means you cannot run lights unless you plug in the serial adapter.

It doens't effect sequencing.

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I just ran into the same problem of having to reassign most of my channels and ran into this thread on a search.

I have another question to pose: Do I have to go through and reassign for each sequence? There doesn't seem to be a way to copy/paste.

Blaine

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From the Edit menu you can export the channel configuration and then import the configuration to the other sequences.

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I think you have to reassign every song. If you haven't changed your channel configuration between songs, you can change the channels with one of the songs, then export the new channel configuration. Next, open each song sequence in LOR and re-input the new channel configuration (under the Edit menu option) and the new channel numbers should be set to the new numbers. You can verify it by opening up 'Channel Property Grid' under the Tools Menu and check to the new channel numbers. Make sure you save each sequence after you do this.

I really wish LOR modify this. It would be nice to have the channel numbers not attached to each sequence, but attached to a text file outside of the sequence. Then, if you needed to make a change, you could change it and all of the sequences would still work. This would make things a lot easier when you shared sequences with each other as well.

I really struggle every year when I have to modify last year's sequences. For instance, last year we had 12 channels on our megatree and this year we have 16. I can't just add 4 lines in my sequence (megatree 13-16) right below the other 12 lines (megatree 1-12), because when I read in the old sequences, those spaces are reserved for other features. So I have to keep everything exactly the way it is, and add all the new stuff at the end. It makes for a really ugly layout, if you ask me. I don't have time to go back and fix it, so I'm just going to have to live with it. At least there are tracks available to make things a little more organized. Thank you LOR for tracks, I love them!

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Is there any easy workaround for the "dead" channels; beat channels, vocal channels that may be different from sequence to sequence?



edit: Amie beat me to the punch

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Amie wrote:

I really wish LOR modify this. It would be nice to have the channel numbers not attached to each sequence, but attached to a text file outside of the sequence. Then, if you needed to make a change, you could change it and all of the sequences would still work. This would make things a lot easier when you shared sequences with each other as well.

I really struggle every year when I have to modify last year's sequences. For instance, last year we had 12 channels on our megatree and this year we have 16. I can't just add 4 lines in my sequence (megatree 13-16) right below the other 12 lines (megatree 1-12), because when I read in the old sequences, those spaces are reserved for other features. So I have to keep everything exactly the way it is, and add all the new stuff at the end. It makes for a really ugly layout, if you ask me. I don't have time to go back and fix it, so I'm just going to have to live with it. At least there are tracks available to make things a little more organized. Thank you LOR for tracks, I love them!
If you are using S2 , what can't you add extra channels for a megatree???.. I have added channels without redoing items. I also just verified with one of my sequences by adding channels in the middle of my star... I did have to change my channel assigments buts easy also as discussed above..
Lets say you wanted to add 4 more channels below your megatree as you described, go to the channel for megatree twelve in your sequence window, right mouse click, then "add channel above/below".



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mnkyboy wrote:

Amie wrote:
I really wish LOR modify this. It would be nice to have the channel numbers not attached to each sequence, but attached to a text file outside of the sequence. Then, if you needed to make a change, you could change it and all of the sequences would still work. This would make things a lot easier when you shared sequences with each other as well.

I really struggle every year when I have to modify last year's sequences. For instance, last year we had 12 channels on our megatree and this year we have 16. I can't just add 4 lines in my sequence (megatree 13-16) right below the other 12 lines (megatree 1-12), because when I read in the old sequences, those spaces are reserved for other features. So I have to keep everything exactly the way it is, and add all the new stuff at the end. It makes for a really ugly layout, if you ask me. I don't have time to go back and fix it, so I'm just going to have to live with it. At least there are tracks available to make things a little more organized. Thank you LOR for tracks, I love them!
If you are using S2 , what can't you add extra channels for a megatree???.. I have added channels without redoing items. I also just verified with one of my sequences by adding channels in the middle of my star... I did have to change my channel assigments buts easy also as discussed above..
Lets say you wanted to add 4 more channels below your megatree as you described, go to the channel for megatree twelve in your sequence window, right mouse click, then "add channel above/below".



I guess I'm not really explaining myself very well. Hmmm, let me think about this.

I think I will have to use an example. For simplicity, let's say that I had 6 channels last year, and I wrote 20 songs, so I don't want to do them over, I just want to read them into my new channel setup and have them run. (Humor me here. I know 6 channels is nothing, but when you start getting up in triple digits, the problem is the same.)

So, here's what last year's looked like:


  1. chaser tree 1 channel 1
  2. chaser tree 2 channel 2
  3. chaser tree 3 channel 3
  4. arch 1 channel 4
  5. arch 2 channel 5
  6. house outline channel 6


This year, I added 4 new channels, 2 more chaser trees and 1 more arch and a Santa Claus. If I set up the channel configuration like this:


  1. chaser tree 1 channel 1
  2. chaser tree 2 channel 2
  3. chaser tree 3 channel 3
  4. chaser tree 4 channel 4
  5. chaser tree 5 channel 5
  6. arch 1 channel 6
  7. arch 2 channel 7
  8. arch 3 channel 8
  9. house outline channel 9
  10. Santa Clause channel 10


And then read in last year's sequences into the new channel configuration, can you see what will happen? arch 1 and arch 2 from the 1st year's songs will turn on chaser trees 4 and 5, and the house outline will turn on arch 1. So, if I want last years songs to work properly, I am forced to set up my new channel configuration like this:


  1. chaser tree 1 channel 1
  2. chaser tree 2 channel 2
  3. chaser tree 3 channel 3
  4. arch 1 channel 6
  5. arch 2 channel 7
  6. house outline channel 9
  7. chaser tree 4 channel 4
  8. chaser tree 5 channel 5
  9. arch 3 channel 8
  10. Santa Clause channel 10


You know what, I just realized that there are 2 problems that I'm addressing and I didn't realize it before. This isn't a channel problem, it's a problem with the first screen having to be exactly like it was the previous year in order to make it work right. (I'd love suggestions if there's a better way.)

The other problem, as mentioned before, is if you need to make a change to a channel after you have completed all your sequences, you have to change it in all of the sequences. If you have sequences that use different channel configurations, then you have to go through all of the channels in each sequence, one by one, to change them. It can be a real pain, even with the Channel Property Grid, if you have lots of channels.

If that information was stored outside of the sequence in a text file, it wouldn't need to be changed inside the sequences. It wouldn't matter if the channel configurations were the same or not, they would be able to know the channel number by the exact label given to them. (ie, Santa, Bush 1 Red, megatree 1 white, etc.)

Hopefully that makes a little more sense.

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You got it regarding the order of the channels.

This is were planning and experience come in. There really is no easy way around it. The better way is to fix what you have and use the export/import configuration.

Using the configuration files, your second concern is addressed. If you have to swap around some channels, do it on one sequence, export then import on all the others.

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Maybe I am missing something here. I have 16 song, 96 channels. I have added a neighbors house to the show. I took out some of the stuff from my house and added it to there house. I moved a nimber of things around (cut and paste worked great) renumbered some other stuff. It took me about a hour with using cut n paste and the right click on the mouse to reassign all my controllers and redo all the songs.



all you should have to do is the add channels below or above, then you assign the new channels there setting. Things do not have to be in number order if you don't wish them to be. If you do you just right click and reassign stuff should'nt take to long unless you have like a 100 songs to do or your adding a ton of new 16 channel boxes.



Just my thoughts on the matter. also keep in mind I only have 96 channels total to deal with.

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iresq wrote:

You got it regarding the order of the channels.

This is were planning and experience come in. There really is no easy way around it. The better way is to fix what you have and use the export/import configuration.

Using the configuration files, your second concern is addressed. If you have to swap around some channels, do it on one sequence, export then import on all the others.

That's what I'm doing this year. It's my 3rd year and I finally figured all that out. I was hoping there was an easier way though. I'm up to 96 channels and next year there will be more, of course. I'm not looking forward to doing this when I get up to 200+. I don't know how you guys do it. It sure would be easier to trade sequences with other people if things were done differently.

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it's a problem with the first screen having to be exactly like it was the previous year in order to make it work right.

Exactly. Its because the ORDER matters. My understanding is that you import a configuration into the first track only and then if you have other tracks, they have pointers (back to the first track assignments) because every additional track is supposed to be a COPY from the first track (either all channels or certain channels copied). Now you can see WHY !

I like the idea of a single re-usable configuration file that could be changed and then affect all sequences using it. Would be much easier.

I think one problem is that LOR didn't provide an atomic level of tracking whats what besides the top to bottom ORDER on the first track.

So if currently you had this configuration:

mega tree1 top to bottom order position 1
mega tree2 top to bottom order position 2
mega tree3 top to bottom order position 3
mega tree4 top to bottom order position 4
mini lights1 top to bottom order position 5
mini lights2 top to bottom order position 6
mini lights3 top to bottom order position 7
santa claus top to bottom order position 8

So the 'top to bottom order position' of whats identifying what it what, even though
you could re-assign which controller+channel you want to any of them easily enough.
But if you initially put these channels in a lousy ORDER and then wrote 3 sequences with them ... then your kind of stuck with that order unless you also re-arrange those first 3 sequences and then export a new configuration that matches the new ordering ... and then start writing your 4th and 5th sequences with the new configuration. So lack of good planning up front (in the current program) really equals even MORE work down the road.

I would think LOR S2 could go to some kind of (hidden) serial# instead of just using top to bottom order position to know whats what. Kind of like how we are known in many circles by our SSN#.

i.e. you could convert from order based (initially) to serial# as follows:
(starting at 10000 and say skipping by 100's to allow for future flexibility)

Then in the future, say you add 2 more mega tree channels and 2 more more mini light channels (the atomic ID assignments would occur behind the scenes and ONLY when you first add a new channel ... ideally to the master, external configuration file).

mega tree5 --> assign atomic ID 10800
mega tree6 --> assign atomic ID 10900
mini lights4 --> assign atomic ID 11000
mini lights5 --> assign atomic ID 11100

So then if you quickly wanted to insert those new channels into the proper order, it would look like this .... but LOR / S2 would still know the proper assignments from the past, because it can identify based on the 'atomic ID' instead of the 'top to bottom order position'. And unlike the order position (which CAN change), or the controller assignments (which CAN change) ... the atomic ID doesn't need to change. Even the NAME could change, so it's unreliable. So the atomic ID (something you don't need to know about) is needed.

mega tree1 10000
mega tree2 10100
mega tree3 10200
mega tree4 10300
mega tree3 10800
mega tree4 10900
mini lights1 10400
mini lights2 10500
mini lights3 10600
mini lights4 11000
mini lights5 11100
santa claus 10700

He we done this with the way the software currently work, all sequence files would be affected by adding new channels in between other pre-existing channels ... because we would have changed the top-to-bottom ORDER.

In extreme situations, it might be possible for the atomic ID to be changed in some guru/advanced mode ... but it would be highly discouraged or possibly not offered at all.

I like the idea of associating sequences files with a SINGLE configuration file that utilizes the atomic ID concept (in some form).

Then I think we can drag and drog stuff around without worrying about the darn top to bottom order like we do currently.

Scott

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It would be great if there was a tool that would rearrange display order, add, remove, and copy channels (based on a list provided to the tool). Here’s what I’d like it to do:

Use two lists of channel names as inputs (e.g. NewName and OldName)
Create a new configuration with the channel names and displayed order based on the NewName list
If an existing channel.name matches an OldName the existing channel (and all its data) is copied to the new channel
(note: an existing channel can be copied multiple times to different channels in the new configuration)
If there is no existing channel.name that matches the OldName, the new channel will not have any sequence or visualization data assigned to it.


The reason I think this would be so useful is because I’m working on a routine that performs these functions on my sequences. It has already saved me hours of work rearranging sequences and it keeps all my sequences configured exactly the same. Unfortunately I don’t think I’ll ever have the time to turn it into a distributable program.


Here’s an example of a “reorder” that I performed:

NewName ------ OldName

wreath 1 ------ wreath 1
wreath 2 ------ Char 4
wreath 3 ------ Char 4
wreath 4 ------ wreath 2
wreath 5 ------ wreath 3
Char 1 ------ Char 1
Char 2 ------ Char 2
Char 3 ------ Char 3
Char 4 ------ Char 3
Char 5 ------ _
Char 6 ------ Char 5
Char 7 ------ _

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taybrynn
taybrynn, I agree with everything you outlined. As long as I didn't have to know about the atomic numbers, that would work.

I'm a software engineer, and the idea of an external file is simple making the program more object oriented. Maybe within the individual sequence itself, you could have a selection box to pick or add all the different items from the external file, and you wouldn't be allowed to add new items within the sequence unless they were already listed in the external file. That way you wouldn't accidentally misspell an item and not have it link up to anything. But then, you would be allowed to move things around anyway you wanted to and not worry about loading it up next year and not having it work on the new setup.

I think once I get this all hashed out in my mind I'll submit it. Hopefully they will consider it.



rwertz, I definitely like your reordering program. That would really come in handy when getting a sequence from someone else. I hope you finish it and are willing to share. It would save so much time. I've spent most of my time this year just dealing with the issue.

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I've finally given up on my old songs...too much trouble. I went from 48 to 96 channels and I had about 10 songs last year. It's easier to program new songs than it is to get the old songs rearrange, one by one into the new order by cutting and pasting. Or by keeping the first page the exact same way the last year's order was.

Maybe after Christmas I will fix all of them and have them in better shape for next year.

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The main thing is the LOR needs to make channels have an identity (internal ID#) when you first create the new channels. Then that display element can live on through moving, and re-assigning ... and probably also through some kind of de-commissioning process (i.e. sold the megatree, unlikely as it would be).

I think the configuration file should be an external reference, similar to how the audio file currently works. Then each song references the internal ID# mapping information in the external configuration file ... so one change in the external configuration file can affect all sequences referencing it.

There needs to be more LOR S2 structure around what people are doing each year ... namely:

(1) adding controllers
(2) adding new display items, removing display items
(3) re-arranging display items
(4) mapping old sequences (songs) into the new configuration/layout

Yes, you can do it currently ... but cutting and pasting every single sequence is the hardest way possible. There must be a better way to do this ...

**IDEA! ... not so good it turns out **
Back to the current state of LOR S2 -- it almost seems like you could use track#1 to import/export your configuration into ONLY. Do not sequence into track#1 is my thought. Then use tracks #2,#3,etc. to do your sequencing into. The benefit in this approach would be that you can move stuff around to your hearts content ... without having to worry about messing up the top-to-bottom order of the channels. So essentially could could just put track#1 in controller order C1:1-16,C2:1-16,C3:1-16, etc. and then use 'duplicate track' into new tracks ... where you could drap/drop (rearrange) to your hearts content without messing up the order (since tracks#2+ are just references back into track#1 configuration assignments).

I'm probably missing something here ... because there are probably other problems still ... but I do kind of like the idea of track#1 being reserved for configuration and assignments ... then tracks#2+ being for the sequence content.
So let's see how that would work ... say you decide to move "Mega tree#1" from controller C1-1 to C6-1. You could go into track#1 and change the name in C6-1 to "Mega Tree#1" ... and say you wanted to put Santa#1 (a new display item) into C1-1 ... so you would just update the name on C1-1 to "Santa#1".

So now, the problem is that Mega Tree#1 didn't really move at all, it's prior programming just will be used for Santa#1 ... ok, so this idea doesn't work.

I guess the problem I saw originally was it ... we need some non-changing ID# for each display item that is generated the first time you enter it.

** BETTER idea **
What would be neat would be a separate inventory file to contain your display items. In there, you would basically inventory your Display Items (items can be groups of things that are all controlled together) ... for example, Nativity Scene could be a group of 5 blowmolds. But in the inventory manager, you would add your 'display items' and they would get assigned a unique ID# there. By default, you wouldn't be able to change the ID# ... but in a 'Advanced Mode', you could. Meaning, you could replace display items with the new equivelents. This could be especially powerful when taking someones else's sequence and mapping it into your own display. LOR could take this another step and allow you a true inventory system (where you store your individual light strings and other display items) ... and then you group these inventory items into 'Display Items' (or display Element/display groups). You then get a unique ID# for Display Item and that becomes a more flexible thing to associate with sequences.

Then you would map to display ID#(s) ... and then the order becomes irrelevant and songs can be rearranged much easier in subsequent years.

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Hey, a seperate inventory file...great idea. :D Isn't the unique id # what the channel numbers function is? It seems like having this extra number, plus the channel number puts a lot more complication to it. I guess I don't understand it's purpose. But I'm all for the inventory file, obviously.

I was right with you on the new idea you posted in red, but started to see the problem coming as I was reading. Kind of funny. Oh well. But thanks for trying to find a solution. I'd love to come up with a better way to do this. You and I have exactly the same number of channels right now. I'd love to solve this before I get too many more channels to deal with. It's been a nightmare with just 96. I would have been done a month ago if it weren't for this issue.

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Hey taybrynn, guess what, we just invented the .lcc file. LOL

Go take a look at it. You can open it with Notepad on your computer and view it as a text file. The first section of the file is the channel properties including the name, color, devicetype, unit, circuit and savedIndex. The SavedIndex is exactly what you were calling a Unique ID #.

Now, if they can take this one step further and allow a text file to define the channel names and SavedIndex then create the *.lcc file based off of the information in a text file, that would be awesome.

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