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Just wondering


~DOC~

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Ok I am an engineer. So I am wondering why people have had so much trouble using top rail chain link fence rail to erect a 20 foot tree. I did the math it works. I like to see pictures of the aftermath, testimony etc. I know 10ft don’t move and have no issues. Doubling is the issue. I like facts. It’s my profession. Help me to understand. 

 

I am planning next years already.

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Want me to send you the pictures of my bent poles. First year I tried it. Bent 2 times. Then went to black steel. Now that kept breaking at the threads at the joints of the 2 pools. Broke twice at the threads. This year I put a rod in where the joints meet. Once I get help to put it up. Then I will know if that fixed it. Using 1 inch pipe. 

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This is what others have used. They used 1-1/4 pipe. I bought black pipe. So if the 1 inch doesnt work. Ready for next year. What I learned with the black pipe is. There is joint inside the metal. So, I had to file the inside to get my round stock inside the pipe.

 

https://christmaslightshow.com/products/pole-pin-12-for-mega-tree

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There is a lot of weight, I have around 12,500 lights on my mt. Last year my 2 " thick splastic/ nylon hook head broke. Yes it was old, yes it is stored in a bard with heat but the sheer weight made it snap. I use a radio tower 24' from base to tip of star.

There are plenty of pictures and documents concerning the top rail.

My replacement hook head is now my wife's former $100 frying pan. My backup I purchased from a company was the wrong size. I should have checked the box when I purchased it several years ago for another tree.

JR

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5 hours ago, dibblejr said:

There is a lot of weight, I have around 12,500 lights on my mt. Last year my 2 " thick splastic/ nylon hook head broke. Yes it was old, yes it is stored in a bard with heat but the sheer weight made it snap. I use a radio tower 24' from base to tip of star.

There are plenty of pictures and documents concerning the top rail.

My replacement hook head is now my wife's former $100 frying pan. My backup I purchased from a company was the wrong size. I should have checked the box when I purchased it several years ago for another tree.

JR

I hope you bought her a new pan!

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3 hours ago, dansamy said:

I hope you bought her a new pan!

It actually cost me an entire set. LOL

As I was making it I was taking pics. Up until I drilled 32 holes in it she thought I was kidding.

JR

Edited by dibblejr
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32 minutes ago, dibblejr said:

It actually cost me an entire set. LOL

As I was making it I was taking pics. Up until I drilled 32 holes in it she thought I was kidding.

JR

I'll bet a new set cost a lot more than $100!

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I am no engineer but when are these poles bending and breaking? Are they breaking when setting up as there is a lateral force on the threads/joints? Once the poles are upright the force should be straight down. Are people using guide ropes when the poles are up? Is it the stiffness of the black pipe or weakness of the short threads?

I use 4' military aluminum poles with a 4" joining section and have never had an issue with bending or breaking whether up 20' or 50' with guide ropes.

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13 hours ago, ~DOC~ said:

Ok I am an engineer. So I am wondering why people have had so much trouble using top rail chain link fence rail to erect a 20 foot tree. I did the math it works. I like to see pictures of the aftermath, testimony etc. I know 10ft don’t move and have no issues. Doubling is the issue. I like facts. It’s my profession. Help me to understand. 

 

I am planning next years already.

First off - planning for future is advisable.  First year for me was only 16 strands. Then went rwb-g for 64 strands. Now I’m at 128 light strands, 3 star strands, 4 strobe strands.

In Oklahoma for example, we fight high winds. The light strands act like a sail pulling the mast to one side - not enough center strength &/or guys - snapola.

We also have many ice storms. 1/2” of ice can drastically increase the weight numbers used in determining original specs needed.

So for a few bucks more, over engineering in the beginning is preferred to much crying later.

 

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49 minutes ago, Mega Arch said:

First off - planning for future is advisable.  First year for me was only 16 strands. Then went rwb-g for 64 strands. Now I’m at 128 light strands, 3 star strands, 4 strobe strands.

In Oklahoma for example, we fight high winds. The light strands act like a sail pulling the mast to one side - not enough center strength &/or guys - snapola.

We also have many ice storms. 1/2” of ice can drastically increase the weight numbers used in determining original specs needed.

So for a few bucks more, over engineering in the beginning is preferred to much crying later.

 

When my hook head broke not only was an expensive frying pan used to replace it. 

The guy wires also cut / damaged about at least 20 strings of lights, lights that I did not have nor did the local stores due to “sold out”.

I ended up ripping apart 8 of my 12 mini trees in order to replace the strands.

That was after I got them all untangled. That took a couple days by itself.

Now I will no longer have another broken hook head nor a shortage of led 100 count string lights.

As my great friend says over spend/ prep in the beginning. Lights alone are not cheap if they can be found during the holiday season.

JR

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1 hour ago, Mega Arch said:

First off - planning for future is advisable.  First year for me was only 16 strands. Then went rwb-g for 64 strands. Now I’m at 128 light strands, 3 star strands, 4 strobe strands.

In Oklahoma for example, we fight high winds. The light strands act like a sail pulling the mast to one side - not enough center strength &/or guys - snapola.

We also have many ice storms. 1/2” of ice can drastically increase the weight numbers used in determining original specs needed.

So for a few bucks more, over engineering in the beginning is preferred to much crying later.

 

I thought more on the ridged conduit (same as black pipe) just thought this was going way over board. I am only planning 20 maybe 25 ft but hoping you all can sway me to the right way side.

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57 minutes ago, dibblejr said:

When my hook head broke not only was an expensive frying pan used to replace it. 

The guy wires also cut / damaged about at least 20 strings of lights, lights that I did not have nor did the local stores due to “sold out”.

I ended up ripping apart 8 of my 12 mini trees in order to replace the strands.

That was after I got them all untangled. That took a couple days by itself.

Now I will no longer have another broken hook head nor a shortage of led 100 count string lights.

As my great friend says over spend/ prep in the beginning. Lights alone are not cheap if they can be found during the holiday season.

JR

S

 

4 hours ago, Mr. P said:

I am no engineer but when are these poles bending and breaking? Are they breaking when setting up as there is a lateral force on the threads/joints? Once the poles are upright the force should be straight down. Are people using guide ropes when the poles are up? Is it the stiffness of the black pipe or weakness of the short threads?

I use 4' military aluminum poles with a 4" joining section and have never had an issue with bending or breaking whether up 20' or 50' with guide ropes.

 

1 hour ago, Mega Arch said:

First off - planning for future is advisable.  First year for me was only 16 strands. Then went rwb-g for 64 strands. Now I’m at 128 light strands, 3 star strands, 4 strobe strands.

In Oklahoma for example, we fight high winds. The light strands act like a sail pulling the mast to one side - not enough center strength &/or guys - snapola.

We also have many ice storms. 1/2” of ice can drastically increase the weight numbers used in determining original specs needed.

So for a few bucks more, over engineering in the beginning is preferred to much crying later.

 

 

4 hours ago, dansamy said:

I'll bet a new set cost a lot more than $100!

 

13 hours ago, Richard365 said:

Want me to send you the pictures of my bent poles. First year I tried it. Bent 2 times. Then went to black steel. Now that kept breaking at the threads at the joints of the 2 pools. Broke twice at the threads. This year I put a rod in where the joints meet. Once I get help to put it up. Then I will know if that fixed it. Using 1 inch pipe. 

Wow gentlemen I re read my post. I am sorry if this taken in anyway a jab. That was not my intention. Now I feel like an a$$. Sorry all

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25 minutes ago, ~DOC~ said:

 

Wow gentlemen I re read my post. I am sorry if this taken in anyway a jab. That was not my intention. Now I feel like an a$$. Sorry all

Doubt anyone took it that way. We’re just trying to give you additional ideas/reasons not to make the same under-engineering mistakes others have made. 

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54 minutes ago, ~DOC~ said:

Wow gentlemen I re read my post. I am sorry if this taken in anyway a jab. That was not my intention. Now I feel like an a$$. Sorry all

I was just wondering when these poles are breaking and what forces were being applied when the broke.

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5 hours ago, Mr. P said:

I was just wondering when these poles are breaking and what forces were being applied when the broke.

I was also wondering. With proper cabling it would work but as said I guess why take a chance

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My fence poles bent in wind storm. This year my black pipe broke at the threads where the 2 pipes connected.  When we were lifting it up to put inside a pipe. My guess it was the weight at the top of the pole.  My fix for my one inch black pipe. I put a one inch round stock 24 inches long inside the pipe where it joins. I drilled a hole 12" below the joint threw the pipe. But a bolt threw. Then installed the round stock. Couple the pipes together. It seems to work. It did not break when lifting. Now just have to wait see if December winds take it down.  

   If it breaks I already bought 1-1/4 pipe for  next year and the piece of modified  round stock for it from the Christmastree web site.

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Another member has her ccr tree pole fail yesterday.

My original build of my ccr tree was a combination of ideas however Mr. P had suggested he used the military camo screening support system poles.

Being retired military and had used those systems in the field , that made absolute sense.

I picked up the poles, bags and spreaders for like $50 from EBay. Shipping was about the same price as the poles.

I did drill a hole all the way through each section used just so they wouldn’t spin. It was tuff drilling the holes. They are military grade aluminum. I never seen any flex, doubt anyone would.

With the cost of pipe and all else this would be a great thing to look in to. If you buy the kit you will only use 4 or 5 sections  and still have plenty left over to either go higher later or build more trees.

There are also People on eBay that had Christmas decorators in mind and build stands for these poles.

JR

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What I found out about the ridged and black pipe is. The black pipe had a weld on the inside of pipe. So, in order for me to put my round stock inside the pipe. I had to do some filming. Since I had 24" round stock sitting around. I decided to use the whole piece. So took a while in 30° weather to file the insides down. 

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