Jump to content
Light-O-Rama Forums
~DOC~

Just wondering

Recommended Posts

Ok I am an engineer. So I am wondering why people have had so much trouble using top rail chain link fence rail to erect a 20 foot tree. I did the math it works. I like to see pictures of the aftermath, testimony etc. I know 10ft don’t move and have no issues. Doubling is the issue. I like facts. It’s my profession. Help me to understand. 

 

I am planning next years already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Want me to send you the pictures of my bent poles. First year I tried it. Bent 2 times. Then went to black steel. Now that kept breaking at the threads at the joints of the 2 pools. Broke twice at the threads. This year I put a rod in where the joints meet. Once I get help to put it up. Then I will know if that fixed it. Using 1 inch pipe. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is what others have used. They used 1-1/4 pipe. I bought black pipe. So if the 1 inch doesnt work. Ready for next year. What I learned with the black pipe is. There is joint inside the metal. So, I had to file the inside to get my round stock inside the pipe.

 

https://christmaslightshow.com/products/pole-pin-12-for-mega-tree

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a lot of weight, I have around 12,500 lights on my mt. Last year my 2 " thick splastic/ nylon hook head broke. Yes it was old, yes it is stored in a bard with heat but the sheer weight made it snap. I use a radio tower 24' from base to tip of star.

There are plenty of pictures and documents concerning the top rail.

My replacement hook head is now my wife's former $100 frying pan. My backup I purchased from a company was the wrong size. I should have checked the box when I purchased it several years ago for another tree.

JR

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, dibblejr said:

There is a lot of weight, I have around 12,500 lights on my mt. Last year my 2 " thick splastic/ nylon hook head broke. Yes it was old, yes it is stored in a bard with heat but the sheer weight made it snap. I use a radio tower 24' from base to tip of star.

There are plenty of pictures and documents concerning the top rail.

My replacement hook head is now my wife's former $100 frying pan. My backup I purchased from a company was the wrong size. I should have checked the box when I purchased it several years ago for another tree.

JR

I hope you bought her a new pan!

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, dansamy said:

I hope you bought her a new pan!

It actually cost me an entire set. LOL

As I was making it I was taking pics. Up until I drilled 32 holes in it she thought I was kidding.

JR

Edited by dibblejr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, dibblejr said:

It actually cost me an entire set. LOL

As I was making it I was taking pics. Up until I drilled 32 holes in it she thought I was kidding.

JR

I'll bet a new set cost a lot more than $100!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am no engineer but when are these poles bending and breaking? Are they breaking when setting up as there is a lateral force on the threads/joints? Once the poles are upright the force should be straight down. Are people using guide ropes when the poles are up? Is it the stiffness of the black pipe or weakness of the short threads?

I use 4' military aluminum poles with a 4" joining section and have never had an issue with bending or breaking whether up 20' or 50' with guide ropes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, ~DOC~ said:

Ok I am an engineer. So I am wondering why people have had so much trouble using top rail chain link fence rail to erect a 20 foot tree. I did the math it works. I like to see pictures of the aftermath, testimony etc. I know 10ft don’t move and have no issues. Doubling is the issue. I like facts. It’s my profession. Help me to understand. 

 

I am planning next years already.

First off - planning for future is advisable.  First year for me was only 16 strands. Then went rwb-g for 64 strands. Now I’m at 128 light strands, 3 star strands, 4 strobe strands.

In Oklahoma for example, we fight high winds. The light strands act like a sail pulling the mast to one side - not enough center strength &/or guys - snapola.

We also have many ice storms. 1/2” of ice can drastically increase the weight numbers used in determining original specs needed.

So for a few bucks more, over engineering in the beginning is preferred to much crying later.

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Mega Arch said:

First off - planning for future is advisable.  First year for me was only 16 strands. Then went rwb-g for 64 strands. Now I’m at 128 light strands, 3 star strands, 4 strobe strands.

In Oklahoma for example, we fight high winds. The light strands act like a sail pulling the mast to one side - not enough center strength &/or guys - snapola.

We also have many ice storms. 1/2” of ice can drastically increase the weight numbers used in determining original specs needed.

So for a few bucks more, over engineering in the beginning is preferred to much crying later.

 

When my hook head broke not only was an expensive frying pan used to replace it. 

The guy wires also cut / damaged about at least 20 strings of lights, lights that I did not have nor did the local stores due to “sold out”.

I ended up ripping apart 8 of my 12 mini trees in order to replace the strands.

That was after I got them all untangled. That took a couple days by itself.

Now I will no longer have another broken hook head nor a shortage of led 100 count string lights.

As my great friend says over spend/ prep in the beginning. Lights alone are not cheap if they can be found during the holiday season.

JR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mega Arch said:

First off - planning for future is advisable.  First year for me was only 16 strands. Then went rwb-g for 64 strands. Now I’m at 128 light strands, 3 star strands, 4 strobe strands.

In Oklahoma for example, we fight high winds. The light strands act like a sail pulling the mast to one side - not enough center strength &/or guys - snapola.

We also have many ice storms. 1/2” of ice can drastically increase the weight numbers used in determining original specs needed.

So for a few bucks more, over engineering in the beginning is preferred to much crying later.

 

I thought more on the ridged conduit (same as black pipe) just thought this was going way over board. I am only planning 20 maybe 25 ft but hoping you all can sway me to the right way side.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, dibblejr said:

When my hook head broke not only was an expensive frying pan used to replace it. 

The guy wires also cut / damaged about at least 20 strings of lights, lights that I did not have nor did the local stores due to “sold out”.

I ended up ripping apart 8 of my 12 mini trees in order to replace the strands.

That was after I got them all untangled. That took a couple days by itself.

Now I will no longer have another broken hook head nor a shortage of led 100 count string lights.

As my great friend says over spend/ prep in the beginning. Lights alone are not cheap if they can be found during the holiday season.

JR

S

 

4 hours ago, Mr. P said:

I am no engineer but when are these poles bending and breaking? Are they breaking when setting up as there is a lateral force on the threads/joints? Once the poles are upright the force should be straight down. Are people using guide ropes when the poles are up? Is it the stiffness of the black pipe or weakness of the short threads?

I use 4' military aluminum poles with a 4" joining section and have never had an issue with bending or breaking whether up 20' or 50' with guide ropes.

 

1 hour ago, Mega Arch said:

First off - planning for future is advisable.  First year for me was only 16 strands. Then went rwb-g for 64 strands. Now I’m at 128 light strands, 3 star strands, 4 strobe strands.

In Oklahoma for example, we fight high winds. The light strands act like a sail pulling the mast to one side - not enough center strength &/or guys - snapola.

We also have many ice storms. 1/2” of ice can drastically increase the weight numbers used in determining original specs needed.

So for a few bucks more, over engineering in the beginning is preferred to much crying later.

 

 

4 hours ago, dansamy said:

I'll bet a new set cost a lot more than $100!

 

13 hours ago, Richard365 said:

Want me to send you the pictures of my bent poles. First year I tried it. Bent 2 times. Then went to black steel. Now that kept breaking at the threads at the joints of the 2 pools. Broke twice at the threads. This year I put a rod in where the joints meet. Once I get help to put it up. Then I will know if that fixed it. Using 1 inch pipe. 

Wow gentlemen I re read my post. I am sorry if this taken in anyway a jab. That was not my intention. Now I feel like an a$$. Sorry all

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, ~DOC~ said:

 

Wow gentlemen I re read my post. I am sorry if this taken in anyway a jab. That was not my intention. Now I feel like an a$$. Sorry all

Doubt anyone took it that way. We’re just trying to give you additional ideas/reasons not to make the same under-engineering mistakes others have made. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, ~DOC~ said:

Wow gentlemen I re read my post. I am sorry if this taken in anyway a jab. That was not my intention. Now I feel like an a$$. Sorry all

I was just wondering when these poles are breaking and what forces were being applied when the broke.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Mr. P said:

I was just wondering when these poles are breaking and what forces were being applied when the broke.

I was also wondering. With proper cabling it would work but as said I guess why take a chance

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My fence poles bent in wind storm. This year my black pipe broke at the threads where the 2 pipes connected.  When we were lifting it up to put inside a pipe. My guess it was the weight at the top of the pole.  My fix for my one inch black pipe. I put a one inch round stock 24 inches long inside the pipe where it joins. I drilled a hole 12" below the joint threw the pipe. But a bolt threw. Then installed the round stock. Couple the pipes together. It seems to work. It did not break when lifting. Now just have to wait see if December winds take it down.  

   If it breaks I already bought 1-1/4 pipe for  next year and the piece of modified  round stock for it from the Christmastree web site.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another member has her ccr tree pole fail yesterday.

My original build of my ccr tree was a combination of ideas however Mr. P had suggested he used the military camo screening support system poles.

Being retired military and had used those systems in the field , that made absolute sense.

I picked up the poles, bags and spreaders for like $50 from EBay. Shipping was about the same price as the poles.

I did drill a hole all the way through each section used just so they wouldn’t spin. It was tuff drilling the holes. They are military grade aluminum. I never seen any flex, doubt anyone would.

With the cost of pipe and all else this would be a great thing to look in to. If you buy the kit you will only use 4 or 5 sections  and still have plenty left over to either go higher later or build more trees.

There are also People on eBay that had Christmas decorators in mind and build stands for these poles.

JR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I found out about the ridged and black pipe is. The black pipe had a weld on the inside of pipe. So, in order for me to put my round stock inside the pipe. I had to do some filming. Since I had 24" round stock sitting around. I decided to use the whole piece. So took a while in 30° weather to file the insides down. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the military poles as jr stated, it is military grade aluminum and the poles have a little flex to them as stiffer pipes tend to break rather then flex. The joints are 4" whereas the stiffer black iron pipes weak spot is the heavy weieght, stiffness and the threads.

Guide ropes are the key, I use one set of three up to 20' and two sets of three above that. The guide ropes keep the pole straight so the weight of the lights applies pressure down with little to no lateral forces.

One year I did a 48 strand mega tree 48' tall, three sets of guide ropes with no issues with these poles but it was a bear putting up and taking down so I now stick with 20'.

Edited by Mr. P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How long is each section  of pole?  What is the bottom  diameter of the pole? 4" ? So I would need to know. Make a base. I am using CCR lights 16 strands. Then I would have to figure how to put my tree toppler on top of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Richard365 said:

How long is each section  of pole?  What is the bottom  diameter of the pole? 4" ? So I would need to know. Make a base. I am using CCR lights 16 strands. Then I would have to figure how to put my tree toppler on top of it.

Each pole is 4 feet long and a complete set has 12 poles per bag. The poles are 1.75 inches but make sure you get aluminum as they also have the older fiberglass ones out there that the aluminum replaced. Also, the newest versions have ribs running the entire length of the poles.

A complete military set comes with a bag, 12 poles, 4 spreaders and 18 stakes.

Edited by Mr. P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Richard365 said:

How long is each section  of pole?  What is the bottom  diameter of the pole? 4" ? So I would need to know. Make a base. I am using CCR lights 16 strands. Then I would have to figure how to put my tree toppler on top of it.

There is a base I mentioned above sold on eBay- linked above this post

I don’t have this base, there are also other bases

The person selling the base also sells the poles

Mr P has everything else covered

Jusy cut down a section of one of the poles and put your topper on. Drill a hole for a set screw or pin- but be prepared, it’s not easy to drill a hole in this aluminum 

JR

Edited by dibblejr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...