Using timer for powerup - show still running after timer clicks off

[Jaynee]

I cannot figure out the solution to my problem that I'm having.

Equipment: 

Five 16 channel controllers

FM transmitter

Gen3 Mini Show Director

Setup: 

 Gen3 mini is connected into FM transmitter for audio.  Gen3 mini is NOT plugged in at all.  The only cords/plugs being used are the audio going from mini into FM transmitter, and R485 from Unit A into the port on the back of the mini.  The controllers are daisy chained via R485 from Unit A through Unit E.

How the program runs:

I use an external TIMER to turn on and turn off my show.  It's only a six plug timer, so I have Units A and B plugged in there as well as the FM Transmitter, which somehow also powers up the Gen3 mini.  Units C through E are plugged directly into wall outlets at all times.

The issue:

When my timer clicks the show off at 11:30 p.m. at night, the FM transmitter, the Gen3 Mini, and units A and B are turned off completely.  However, I've noticed that the program still continues running on Units C through E which are still plugged in.  But I don't see how that is possible when the Gen3 mini is theoretically OFF because it gets its power from the FM Transmitter which is plugged directly into the timer, which has clicked the show OFF.

The result is that every night at 11:30 p.m. I have to go into my garage and unplug Units C through E in order to get the show to stop running outside.

My question:

How is it possible that the Gen3 mini is CONSTANTLY running when there is no visible power source for the unit - the 12V port is NOT being used and literally the only things in the box are the cat 5 cable and the small cord that clicks into the "audio" port on the FM transmitter? And how is it possible that once Units A and B are turned off, that the daisy chain between those units and Units C through E continue to run the show?

Solution?

I know the solution is to get a second timer to plug in those three units, and set it to go on and off at the same time as the other timer, thus shutting down EVERYTHING at once.  I understand that Cat5 cable probably still has "juice" running even when the power on the controller is turned off, therefore the program is able to go to the other controllers, which are still on since they are plugged in directly to the wall versus a timer.  so yes, I'll be getting another timer.

But I'm still confused as to how the Gen3 mini is still operable when that is MOST DEFINITELY not being powered.

 

[Speedster]

The MiniDirector gets its power from the nearest light controller that has power.  I used to have similar problems like you mentioned, but after buying this 12V wall transformer and connecting it to the MiniDirector, and plugging it into a timer, I no longer have those issues. 

http://store.lightorama.com/12vowatr.html

I can leave all of my controllers plugged in all the time without worrying about any of them supplying power to the MiniDirector because the 12V wall transformer "overrides" the power from the controllers as long as it's plugged into the MiniDirector.  My timer is set to go on at 4:00 pm and off at midnight.  I  never have to worry about unplugging anything, or setting the controllers on timers (which I used to have to do).

I think the 12V wall transformer connected to a timer might work for your situation too.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Speedster

[Jaynee]

Weird that the Gen3 wouldn't have shipped with one of those automatically.  I'm sure I have a 12V wall plug somewhere in my "cord drawer" at home.  I'll have to take a look.  I have ONE plug in my timer that is not being used.  If I can find one I'll see if this solves the problem.

 

Thanks, Speedster!

[Speedster]

Good luck Jaynee, I hope that 12V wall plug solves the problem.  And I agree...would've been nice if the MiniDirector came with it. 

[Mega Arch]

3 hours ago, Jaynee said:

Weird that the Gen3 wouldn't have shipped with one of those automatically.  I'm sure I have a 12V wall plug somewhere in my "cord drawer" at home.  I'll have to take a look.  I have ONE plug in my timer that is not being used.  If I can find one I'll see if this solves the problem.

 

Thanks, Speedster!

or if you are diy - make a special cat5 cable for controller #2 just using pins 4 & 5. If not diy, contact LOR and get one from them.

 

[Orville]

3 hours ago, Jaynee said:

Weird that the Gen3 wouldn't have shipped with one of those automatically.  I'm sure I have a 12V wall plug somewhere in my "cord drawer" at home.  I'll have to take a look.  I have ONE plug in my timer that is not being used.  If I can find one I'll see if this solves the problem.

 

Thanks, Speedster!

Make sure it's rated at 1AMP, 100Mw, 500mW may not supply what it needs.  When I bought a  Director and used one, I didn't need the SD Card Writer/reader, so I asked if I could have the adapter instead.   Just know the adapter I have labeled got the Director is rated 12VDC 1Watt Output, a lesser amperage adapter may not work.  So make sure you have one that's rated 1 Amp, or it may not work.

As for your issue, the other controllers ARE NOT on a timer, there is power to them, so even if the power is off to the controller the miniDirector is plugged directly into, it WILL still be getting power from ANY controller that has power to it via the Cat cable attached to it{them}.  You'd have to do as stated, put a timer to turn off ALL controllers, as, again, ANY Controller having power, will keep the miniDirector powered and running!

 

[Dave Pursel]

AND one more thing to consider if it's not too late.  I have a gazillion wall warts (power adapter/transformers).  They have different size connectors and the polarity ( plus or minus on the center pin). You need to verify the correct polarity also.  As Orville stated DC is the key since some wall warts are AC output.  Orville gave the correct specs.  And 1amp is the same as 1000 milliamps if you didn't know.  Sorry just want to make sure you use one that doesn't fry your mini director.  And by the way I've been using the same technique for 8 years now.  All 20+ of my controllers, fm transmitter, and director are powered up from October till January.  You wouldn't need to use a timer at all this way.  (assuming your using the show builder to create your sd cards with start / stop times).  As Speedster said the 1st controller will power your mini director.  What I discovered and was never able to fix was an issue with the mini director starting the show up in the middle of the morning (2:00am - 4:00am) outside of the start / stop times.  This problem went away when I used the 12vdc power adapter.

[TheDucks]

These are not constant current loads.  The voltage and polarity are the most important.  I can power that controller from a 12V 30A supply. As long as the voltage stays in the safe rang (the problem with lightly loading huge supplies)

Wall worts simply come in small currents because they are CHEAPER to make

BTW don't believeme about a 33A 12V supply. Pixies and CMB24's power themselves from BANK 1, supplied from ... Yep

[Orville]

36 minutes ago, Dave Pursel said:

AND one more thing to consider if it's not too late.  I have a gazillion wall warts (power adapter/transformers).  They have different size connectors and the polarity ( plus or minus on the center pin). You need to verify the correct polarity also.  As Orville stated DC is the key since some wall warts are AC output.  Orville gave the correct specs.  And 1amp is the same as 1000 milliamps if you didn't know.  Sorry just want to make sure you use one that doesn't fry your mini director.  And by the way I've been using the same technique for 8 years now.  All 20+ of my controllers, fm transmitter, and director are powered up from October till January.  You wouldn't need to use a timer at all this way.  (assuming your using the show builder to create your sd cards with start / stop times).  As Speedster said the 1st controller will power your mini director.  What I discovered and was never able to fix was an issue with the mini director starting the show up in the middle of the morning (2:00am - 4:00am) outside of the start / stop times.  This problem went away when I used the 12vdc power adapter.

Are you sure you didn't accidentally create a show with those start/stop times and it was on the SD Card?  Or somehow an existing show somehow got set and left on the SD Card, and then you wrote the next show to it and just didn't realize it was there?   That's the only time I ever had an issue with a show popping up in the middle of the night.  

When I had that issue, liked to drive me crazy tracking it down, finally a thought came to me to just reformat the SD Card, rewrote the show to it with the start/stop times and the issue went away.  

Mine was only powered from the 12VDC 1A adapter when I'd run tests inside the house, the majority of the time I just let it get it's power directly from the controller when running shows or the RS485B adapter I used.  But I had the one with the real time clock built in, so I didn't have to worry about figuring out how to set extra timers and all that.   It was just easier to let the Director handle everything.  Unfortunately the miniDirectors DO NOT have an internal time clock, so as far as I'm aware you can't set start or stop times on the miniDirectors for lack of that option{no internal clock}.

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Orville

[Don]

@Jaynee - Others are right it gets power from the nearest controller.

You said, " Gen3 mini is NOT plugged in at all.  [...] and R485 from Unit A into the port on the back of the mini." Those were conflicting statements (at least to me) and indicates you are connected to the RJ45 port of the Mini Director.

Also, be sure to check the docs for the director. I know there is a jumper involved, but I forget if it needs to be added/removed, etc.

[EARLE W. TALLEY]

Read pages 10 & 11 of users guide about external power.

[Jaynee]

Thanks for the tips and advice everyone.  In the end, I found a 12V 1 amp cord last night and plugged it in - sure enough, when the timer shut off last night at 11:30, the Mini box turned off as well and the lights outside stopped running.

My external timer is what runs my show - I don't build the show on the SD Card to have time on and time off.  MiniDirectors don't offer that functionality.

[Orville]

Ugh, didn't catch it in my post about the adapters, at the time, but that 1 WATT statement should have been 1 Amp.

But glad you found an adapter with the same ratings LOR uses for them and got everything working as you needed.

[Dave Pursel]

I owe you an Apology Jaynee.  I tried to provide some input on your issue and as a result of a offline discussion with Orville discovered that your issue was with the "mini" director.  Although part of what I wrote still applies, the part referencing the fact that you wouldn't need to use a timer is not correct.  Since your "mini" doesn't have a realtime clock than you do in fact have to use a method of turning the mini on/off.  Also that issue I made reference to three years ago, were with the older version of the "Showtime Director".  I haven't seen that problem with the new G3 Showtime Director.