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rooster423

RGB Pixel Tree kit

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Can you program the pixel tree in Superstar like you do the regular CCR ribbons or does it have to be programmed in pixel editor?

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Answered in your other post.

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1 hour ago, rooster423 said:

Can you program the pixel tree in Superstar like you do the regular CCR ribbons or does it have to be programmed in pixel editor?

If you are considering purchasing the pixel tree kit you will also need to upgrade your software version and level. 4.3.14 is the minimum (I believe) and pro to run the LOR Enhanced NEtwork

If you get the pixie16 kit  - please refer to the step by step writeup I did yesterday. From box to lights on.

JR

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1 hour ago, rooster423 said:

Can you program the pixel tree in Superstar like you do the regular CCR ribbons or does it have to be programmed in pixel editor?

Yes, you can sequence a pixel tree in SuperStar (been doing so since 2012).

Note that as JR mentioned, a software upgrade is recommended (although not required)  Although your version 3.7.0 software WILL sequence the channels for a Pixie controller, you need the newer version in order to Insert a Pixie controller as a single device into Sequence Editor.  With the older software, you would have to build the channels more manually, but you CAN do it.  Second part, is that although JR is recommending upgrading to Pro in order to use Enhanced Networking, the Pixie controller does not REQUIRE E-LOR networking (the PixCon16 DOES require E-LOR).  With that said however, I normally DO recommend getting the Pro level license, and I DO run Enhanced networking for everything except an InputPup which can't be used on an Enhanced network.

 

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10 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

Yes, you can sequence a pixel tree in SuperStar (been doing so since 2012).

Note that as JR mentioned, a software upgrade is recommended (although not required)  Although your version 3.7.0 software WILL sequence the channels for a Pixie controller, you need the newer version in order to Insert a Pixie controller as a single device into Sequence Editor.  With the older software, you would have to build the channels more manually, but you CAN do it.  Second part, is that although JR is recommending upgrading to Pro in order to use Enhanced Networking, the Pixie controller does not REQUIRE E-LOR networking (the PixCon16 DOES require E-LOR).  With that said however, I normally DO recommend getting the Pro level license, and I DO run Enhanced networking for everything except an InputPup which can't be used on an Enhanced network.

 

Jim- the pixie series does require enhanced. No enhanced no lights. Also to find the pixie in HU need at least 4.3.14 ( I think that is the earlies version while the pixie16 was introduced) HU will not find it therefore cant set the unit ID.

OK, just looked at the "newest manual". It appears LOR cannot make up their mind on the Network so the book now says "Normal or Enhanced" but out in the real world you will see where I have helped people and the pixie would not work until "enhanced" is selected. They have done the same thing with the number of pixels per string. At one time it was 170 now it says max 100 but the back cover still says 170. The controller stops at 100. A young lady and I are still trying to figure this out - today. 

As mention Jim is correct by the manual but on the ground I have found dif. Maybe its hit and miss.

JR

Edited by dibblejr

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5 minutes ago, dibblejr said:

Jim- the pixie series does require enhanced. No enhanced no lights. Also to find the pixie in HU need at least 4.3.14 ( I think that is the earlies version while the pixie16 was introduced) HU will not find it therefore cant set the unit ID.

JR

4.3.16 beta or 4.3.18 official.

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2 minutes ago, dibblejr said:

Jim- the pixie series does require enhanced. No enhanced no lights. Also to find the pixie in HU need at least 4.3.14 ( I think that is the earlies version while the pixie16 was introduced) HU will not find it therefore cant set the unit ID.

JR

According to the LOR networking speed page, the Pixie controllers do not require Enhanced networking:

http://www1.lightorama.com/network-speeds/

I had not thought about the Hardware Utility aspect, however for the second generation Pixie controllers with DIP switches, you CAN set the ID without the HU - that's what they are there for...  Now, with that said (as I did about Enhanced), I would recommend upgrading from 3.7.0 - which is ancient.  So much has improved since then.

 

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8 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

According to the LOR networking speed page, the Pixie controllers do not require Enhanced networking:

http://www1.lightorama.com/network-speeds/

I had not thought about the Hardware Utility aspect, however for the second generation Pixie controllers with DIP switches, you CAN set the ID without the HU - that's what they are there for...  Now, with that said (as I did about Enhanced), I would recommend upgrading from 3.7.0 - which is ancient.  So much has improved since then.

 

I had looked at that speed page as well but many users have been having issues with the pixie until they set them for enhanced, then they popped in. Maybe something LOR needs to look at.

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11 minutes ago, Mr. P said:

I had looked at that speed page as well but many users have been having issues with the pixie until they set them for enhanced, then they popped in. Maybe something LOR needs to look at.

Interesting.  This quote from the Pixie manual:

Quote
Network Protocols and Speeds
There are two network protocols currently in use:LOR Normal and LOR Enhanced.
 
LOR normal is the protocol that has been used by LOR controllers from year 0. It is the only way to access the CCR/CCB/CCP compatibility mode resolution, color effects and macros channels.
 
LOR Enhanced protocol is a newer compressed data protocol designed specifically for high densitypixel displays.
 
The Pixie controllers understand both protocols and automatically detect network speeds from 19.2Kbits per second to 1Mbit per second.
 

 

Edited by k6ccc

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7 minutes ago, Mr. P said:

I had looked at that speed page as well but many users have been having issues with the pixie until they set them for enhanced, then they popped in. Maybe something LOR needs to look at.

I read the Network speed page as any Green was optional for simple (smaller) configurations, only the Red tick was mandatory.

Always pays to have a second (or more) set of eyes look. 

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8 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

The Pixie controllers understand both protocols and automatically detect network speeds from 19.2Kbits per second to 1Mbit per second.

Weird, even the speed page shows that Pixie's require 500k or 1,000k.

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1 hour ago, Mr. P said:

Weird, even the speed page shows that Pixie's require 500k or 1,000k.

Yes, but as I stated above, nobody I know or helped has gotten a single pixie control to work correctly without the enhanced 500K network. LOR can say what they want. My thought is they have accidentally lumped all pixie devices under the pixie2IDMX and the 4IDMX my mistake.

Even during my Beta testing and to yesterday the person I helped no light without enhanced. I have helped well over 100 people with the pixie setup.

Its also the same with the pixel count. It used to be 170 per string for pixie16. The new manual now says 100 on page 18 however if you look at the back inside cover it still states 170. The actual lights stop at 100. Will not go beyond.

JR

Edited by dibblejr

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I just created a help desk ticket requesting that LOR update the online information sources so that they match reality, and also please respond to this thread.  Here is the text of my help desk ticket:

Quote

This deals with Pixie controllers. 
According to the LOR Network speeds page:
http://www1.lightorama.com/network-speeds/
The Pixie controllers will operate at 500K or 1000K speed and can use an Enhanced network (but do NOT require it).
According to the currently available manual from the documentation web page:
http://www1.lightorama.com/documentation/
" Network Protocols and Speeds
There are two network protocols currently in use:LOR Normal and LOR Enhanced.

LOR normal is the protocol that has been used by LOR controllers from year 0. It is the only way to access the CCR/CCB/CCP compatibility mode resolution, color effects and macros channels.

LOR Enhanced protocol is a newer compressed data protocol designed specifically for high densitypixel displays.

The Pixie controllers understand both protocols and automatically detect network speeds from 19.2Kbits per second to 1Mbit per second."

As you can see, those disagree on the available speeds, and according to forum posts, the Pixie controllers DO require Enhanced LOR networking - which neither of the above online sources indicate.

Please update the online documentation to match reality, and it might be nice to have someone at LOR respond to this forum thread:
http://forums.lightorama.com/topic/47642-rgb-pixel-tree-kit/

Thanks you.

 

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3 hours ago, k6ccc said:

I just created a help desk ticket requesting that LOR update the online information sources so that they match reality, and also please respond to this thread.  Here is the text of my help desk ticket:

 

I brought it up last June or July during Beta. I also discovered that the black adapters do work (at least for configuring and testing) At some point LOR stopped informing purchaser's that they needed the red adapter so in an attempt to help those that were uniformed we tried what they had (the black) and they worked. However I told them I could not guarantee they will work in a show. And told them they should have a spare on hand and to buy the red just in case.

The 100/ 170 pixel ordeal will hopefully get corrected in the manuals as well. In one pasge it says 100 but the back inside cover pixie comparison it says 170 across the board. The controller stops at 100 verified last night. Was hoping that adjusting the Logical Resolution to one of those defined in the manual would work. The person I was assisting submitted a ticket and got a super fast reply " only 100 pixels". "There must have been a typo in the manual."

I was counting on at least 150 per port for my 1200 pixel roof outline. Now I have to recalculate and add two more controllers- at least I have them.

Shout out to DevMike .

JR

Edited by dibblejr

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To be honest LOR just needs to get rid of the black adapters and only sell the red. I mean the red is only $2 more but it will alleviate a ton of confusion.

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4 minutes ago, Mr. P said:

To be honest LOR just needs to get rid of the black adapters and only sell the red. I mean the red is only $2 more but it will alleviate a ton of confusion.

Maybe they are depleting their stock. Nobody likes to waste $ understandably if selling for the AC controllers.

JR

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It does sound like there is some confusion here and the documentation could be improved. 

As far as protocols are concerned, the pixie controllers do work with both protocols... BUT Pixel Editor in S4 and Sequencer in S5 only produce files for enhanced networks so when using that software you need to use an enhanced network. But lets take someone who had an original CCR tree from years ago, sequenced using S3 Sequence Editor and/or Super Star, they could use a Pixie16 with ribbons and use the same sequences ( no enhanced networks ). 

As far as the 170 pixels I am getting some clarification on that. 

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7 minutes ago, LightORamaDan said:

It does sound like there is some confusion here and the documentation could be improved. 

As far as protocols are concerned, the pixie controllers do work with both protocols... BUT Pixel Editor in S4 and Sequencer in S5 only produce files for enhanced networks so when using that software you need to use an enhanced network. But lets take someone who had an original CCR tree from years ago, sequenced using S3 Sequence Editor and/or Super Star, they could use a Pixie16 with ribbons and use the same sequences ( no enhanced networks ). 

As far as the 170 pixels I am getting some clarification on that. 

Boots on the ground here found otherwise. I have yet to see anyone I have helped be able to get their pixies to work without selecting the enhanced network.

Not only that but a search for people having the problem with no lights and I and others replied to check "enhanced" in NP and wala lights magically come on. 

Today a young lady received word that the 170 pixels "must have been a misunderstanding". Only 100 will work.

Its the enhanced that really is the issue here, as well as another Pixie Manual correction.

Thanks for the reply

JR

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John, who wrote the firmware for the Pixies will respond shortly to this thread and get it all straightened out. As I am typing this, I have three pixie controllers running. One is running using LOR standard protocol. One is running enhanced and a Pixie2 is running raw DMX512. They are all running the same effects ( copied to different controllers in the sequence ) and I can see all three of them performing identically. 

As far as 100 channels vs 170... The true number is 170...using Ehnanced Protocol.  Someone on the help desk that was running on older information indicated that the correct number is 100 but that is old information. We are double checking now, but preliminary reviews indicate that the online manual for the Pixie Controllers has correct information. Internally we are making sure that everyone is updated and working off the same page so we can minimize and not be a contributor to any confusion in the future. We will correct / synchronize our documentation as quickly as possible.

John will provide some additional detail. 

 

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I know I'm new here and got some GREAT help from JR, but....

Now that I have 2 working ribbons, my Pixie II is working with the black adapter and NO Enhanced mode. The Enhanced checkbox is grayed out and I can't select it at ALL.

I realize this tosses in a monkey wrench, but it IS working for me. I DID update the firmware to the latest 1.04. Could that be it?

 

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Capabilities of the Pixie hardware with 1.04 firmware:

LOR regular or enhanced networks at speeds from 19.2Kbps to 1Mbps. 170 pixels/port maximum.

LOR regular network support is primarily for compatibility with old CCR/CCB sequences. Compatibility (resolution/macros/color effects) mode is only supported for 50 pixel/port configurations when running on a LOR regular network. You can run a LOR regular network with any number of pixels/port up to 170, but the complexity of LOR regular network commands may cause a lack of smoothness with more than 50 pixels/port.

S4 PC Software considerations:

The Sequencer and SuperStar addon can be configured to generate commands in either network mode. The Pixel Editor will only generate commands for enhanced mode networks. This may be the cause of confusion, if you use the Pixel Editor and set the network type to LOR regular, it will not work. Enhanced network mode will result in the smoothest transitions because it is designed for RGB pixel displays, you should always configure for Enhanced mode if possible.

S5 PC Software should always use Enhanced networks.

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Ok everyone here is a little update. Maybe not exactly what is being discussed here but it still fits

I have been helping another member setup a 144 pixel per string matrix.

After submitting her HD ticket and was told that 170 is correct. We discovered that there was no where to select 170 per port HU and SE 50/100

She then selected pixcon16 in SE and it all works.

I just got off the phone and had a great conversation with LOR and we will probably get another version update someday but in the meantime if you want to set the Pixie16 up for a number greater than 100 just set up in HU as a pixie but when adding the device in SE select Pixcon and all other values will be the same as if it were  Pixie16.

170 works fine entire sequence working in the matrix of 144 pixels per string.

That is great news.

JR

Edited by dibblejr

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1 hour ago, LightORamaDan said:

John, who wrote the firmware for the Pixies will respond shortly to this thread and get it all straightened out. As I am typing this, I have three pixie controllers running. One is running using LOR standard protocol. One is running enhanced and a Pixie2 is running raw DMX512. They are all running the same effects ( copied to different controllers in the sequence ) and I can see all three of them performing identically. 

As far as 100 channels vs 170... The true number is 170...using Ehnanced Protocol.  Someone on the help desk that was running on older information indicated that the correct number is 100 but that is old information. We are double checking now, but preliminary reviews indicate that the online manual for the Pixie Controllers has correct information. Internally we are making sure that everyone is updated and working off the same page so we can minimize and not be a contributor to any confusion in the future. We will correct / synchronize our documentation as quickly as possible.

John will provide some additional detail. 

 

We got the 100 to 170 corrected on her 144 pixels per port matrix.

Set it up In SE as a Pixcon16 until an update comes out allowing us to select the 170 count.

Now I won’t have to cut my strings and add more controllers for my roof outline.

:)

JR

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Let me see if I understand this, If you set the pixie up as an old CCR, 50 pixels equivalent, then it will work at the slower speed on an unenhaced network. If you go 100 pixels or more then you need the higher speeds and an enhanced network. Is this correct or did I miss something?

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1 hour ago, Mr. P said:

Let me see if I understand this, If you set the pixie up as an old CCR, 50 pixels equivalent, then it will work at the slower speed on an unenhaced network. If you go 100 pixels or more then you need the higher speeds and an enhanced network. Is this correct or did I miss something?

After I spoke with theM about my findings they are going to look into why most pixies are not working (according to me) unless “enhanced “ is checked.

And I believe you are correct. After my conversation with LOR they wanted to make the pixie as backwards compatable as possible.

Thats why they can’t believe the pixies are not working in normal mode.

Hopefully we are missing something and when they update the manual they will inform us how what to do. 

I don’t have any more pixie2 ccrs - gave them to Orville my concern was the enhance mode for pixies and the 170 count which was accidentally solved today - settingnit up as a Pixcon16 in HU

JR

 

Edited by dibblejr

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