Extending Original 5V 4 wire CC Bullet Pixels - is this possible?

[Orville]

1 hour ago, GriswoldStyle said:

Thank you for this diagram. Is this the same with the original CCD settings?

I have one that was the original CCD I got from a gentleman this summer, and a brand new one I just got this year in the sale (two different generations). They will both be combined with two sets of 50 pixels each to create four arches in a row.

If this does what I think, it's really going to make it so much easier for me to sequence arch leaps.

Sorry Orville for going off topic asking here, but it seemed logical since this is regarding the 1st Gen ccd. Didn't mean to go off topic. My apologies

Not a big deal, we're pretty much done with this discussion anyway.   

But to answer your question on the original CCD settings, you set those up in the Hardware Utility.  Open the HWU, select the comm port where your CCD controllers are, refresh to locate all controllers. 

Once the box is filled in with your controller unit and ID's, select the one you want to change, open Config, by clicking on the large Config button at the bottom of the main HWU screen, once you click that, then click on the large button that shows Cosmic Color/Pixie Config, another window will pop open, where it shows reverse string, check the box on which string you want reversed, string 1 {port 1} or string 2 {port 2} on the CCD controller.  Looking from the front of the controller where the face panel screws down Port 1 {string 1} is the left side, the right is Port 2 {strand 2}.   Then click OK and you should be good to go.     I'm going to try and add some screen captures of what I'm talking about, and looks like they got uploaded. 

I have to reverse 1 strand on 2 of my controllers due to how I'm placing them so they match up when the sequence plays, but 3 are set with neither of these checked.   NOTE: you may have to tell it how many strands you have, if you're using S4 version 4.3.34, the HWU will not allow you to set this option, apparently when I was trying earlier, it seems there is a bug in the HWU in this version.  

So if you're using the same version I am and need to set the HWU, you'll need an earlier version of the Hardware Utility to be able to set the correct number of strands.

Hope this helps.

[Orville]

7 hours ago, k6ccc said:

Because there are two issues at play.  On is voltage drop, and the other is the ability of whatever device to drive data for some distance.  The newer controllers CAN drive the data farther than the older devices.  BTW, the voltage of the data has no relationship to voltage powering the strip.  It's pretty much always about 5 volts.

There are people who are driving pixels directly off the GPIO pins of a Raspberry Pi which outputs about 3.3 volts.  It generally works, but the distance from the Pi to the first pixel is EXTREMELY limited.

 

Looks like I'm going to have a talk with my AI Robotics friend and see if there is a way to increase the distance data can travel on the data line.   There's got to be a way to increase the distance the data can flow.   We're sending data over 75-100+ foot lengths of Cat5e cable to the controllers and they talk back to the USB adapters connected to the computer.   Just seems a little off to me that they can talk back and forth these long distances on the Cat5e cables, but can't send out a pulse stream of data in the same manner.    I'm not an IT person in the computer area, so I'm going to have my AI Robotics friend explain this in further detail as to what this is not possible or if it is, how to do it.

Thanks for the input Jim, I'm new at learning this stuff and sometimes I just can't seem to find the right pages that has the info I'm trying to find before buying something that may not be usable.     They are supposed to be delivered Thursday 9/19. I was going to use them with another of my 5V devices, but turns out can't use these extender cables with them either, had some speakers with those kind of connections, but they aren't 4 pin like these{I thought they were}, otherwise I'd have used them for those outdoor speakers I was planning on using this year.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Orville

[Orville]

7 hours ago, k6ccc said:

I followed this link to see it.  I have a collection of bookmarks for reference web pages (for example, the license level comparison, network speed, etc.).   I saw this page and my first thought is "I need to bookmark this page - this will be useful).  Went to click on the "Bookmark this page" icon, and saw that I already had bookmarked it.  I guess I thought it would be useful some other time too!  I did not remember it however...

 

I've got it bookmarked now too, under my LOR Folder in the bookmarks too menu at the top of my browser.  That way I can always go back and refer to it.  I try to bookmark and even download every pdf file LOR has online so I can look/read through it.  But I accidentally erased the original CCD instruction booklet I had on my Hard Drive.  So redownloaded that and now it's on 3 separate drives, along with all the other manuals and spec/data sheets.

[k6ccc]

1 hour ago, Orville said:

Looks like I'm going to have a talk with my AI Robotics friend and see if there is a way to increase the distance data can travel on the data line.   There's got to be a way to increase the distance the data can flow.   We're sending data over 75-100+ foot lengths of Cat5e cable to the controllers and they talk back to the USB adapters connected to the computer.   Just seems a little off to me that they can talk back and forth these long distances on the Cat5e cables, but can't send out a pulse stream of data in the same manner.    I'm not an IT person in the computer area, so I'm going to have my AI Robotics friend explain this in further detail as to what this is not possible or if it is, how to do it.

It all depends on how the data is driven.  Let's face it, we can run gigabit over 100 meters of Cat-6 , but it's designed for it.  Think about the difference between RS-232 and RS-485.  RS-232 will send 19.2K about 20 feet, and RS-485 will send a half megabit about three quarters of a mile.   The SPI data stream for pixels was originally designed for very short distance.  Over time, the board manufacturers have improved on the design while still remaining within the data spec.  That has resulted in the newer controllers being able to drive quite a bit farther than the older ones.

With that said, there are pixel extender boards available that take the SPI data and convert it to a differential based transmission that can go much farther.  At the far end, there is the receiving end converter that converts the differential data back to an SPI format to drive the pixels.  I've never used those, but I understand that they can get many hundreds of feet.

 

[Orville]

10 hours ago, k6ccc said:

It all depends on how the data is driven.  Let's face it, we can run gigabit over 100 meters of Cat-6 , but it's designed for it.  Think about the difference between RS-232 and RS-485.  RS-232 will send 19.2K about 20 feet, and RS-485 will send a half megabit about three quarters of a mile.   The SPI data stream for pixels was originally designed for very short distance.  Over time, the board manufacturers have improved on the design while still remaining within the data spec.  That has resulted in the newer controllers being able to drive quite a bit farther than the older ones.

With that said, there are pixel extender boards available that take the SPI data and convert it to a differential based transmission that can go much farther.  At the far end, there is the receiving end converter that converts the differential data back to an SPI format to drive the pixels.  I've never used those, but I understand that they can get many hundreds of feet.

 

Hmmm, sounds like those pixel extender boards could work if the pixel strand had connectors at each end, unfortunately my end ends with a pixel bulb.  So I'd have to try and break the seal and add that end device at the end of the end of the strand somehow.   I think I'll just leave that alone, afraid I'd break/damage the end bulb, it's covering , the circuit board or something and end up with a mess trying to open that and then reseal it, if it still worked after that.   I'll leave that one up to the DIY folk, not for me.

I know LOR  has, or used to have, an exchange program for the CTB16PC and other ~AC~  controllers, not sure if they still do that, or if that would include the older CCD I's and 5V RGB strands for trading up to the newer CCD II's and RGB 12V RGB strands set up at a discounted price.  If it does, maybe I'll just try to save up some money over the next year and do a trade in exchange for 12V pixels and controllers.  But only if that trade-in/discount pricing option is still available and covers the older CCD's from LOR.  I should really upgrade my CTB16PC controllers to GEN3 ones as well, so even a bit more money to try and save up for doing that too.

[k6ccc]

1 hour ago, Orville said:

Hmmm, sounds like those pixel extender boards could work if the pixel strand had connectors at each end, unfortunately my end ends with a pixel bulb.  So I'd have to try and break the seal and add that end device at the end of the end of the strand somehow.  

It's not that end of the string where it matters.  The Pixel Extenders would normally go between the pixel controller and the first pixel in the string.

 

[Orville]

5 hours ago, k6ccc said:

It's not that end of the string where it matters.  The Pixel Extenders would normally go between the pixel controller and the first pixel in the string.

 

Now that's interesting.  Looks like I'm going to have to try and locate one or maybe a few of these online and see how they work in to the scheme of things.

They would definitely help with my current set up since one of my controllers can't be close enough to connect both strands of RGB pixels because of where they are, they're only about 1', maybe 2 or 3' at most away from the controllers connectors.  

Was really hoping those 5V extenders were for the original CCD's, but since not, got to either re-plan the lights in that area or find those pixel extender boards!