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Extending Original 5V 4 wire CC Bullet Pixels - is this possible?


Orville

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Okay, have a question about extensions on the original 5V CCD {CCB-100} pixel controllers and bullet pixels.

I see LOR sells a 5V 5 foot extender cable located at: Extension - 5V - 4 Pin - Black

If I add two of these, one on each RGB Port, would any extra power be needed, as in injecting power ot will these extensions allow the RGB Pixel Bullets to work normally just by extending them with these without any additional power?

Since this is my first year with these, I don't want to add something and then find out later I need additional power.  Really hoping I can extend each Port 5 feet with the above cables without additional hardware if at all possible.  

Where I'm mounting 2 strands of these bullet nodes, only one of my controllers will need these extensions, and before I purchase them, I want to know if they will work without additional power added through them.

Anyone used these and how well did they work with the older CCB-100 controller{s}.

Thanks for the help, been trying to find an answer, but alas, haven't had much luck on finding a definitive yes they will as is or if I have to add something more.

Just trying to get an answer so I know what or how I may have to change my set up to make things work and before I buy something that may end up useless to me.

Once I know, then I'll know whether to go on and order these for my display.  Lights won't be going up 'til late October, but trying to plan placement and anything additional I may need before that happens.

 

Edited by Orville
punctuation errors corrected.
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Let me find my Lor ticket email. I actually asked them in the help desk  about this and I think they said no more than 8 feet but they do not offer extensions for the original ccd's. I will post back shortly.

Edited by GriswoldStyle
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Found it. I actually asked them about an extension for the original 5v CCD. This is the help desk reply they gave....

With that generation of smart pixels the distance from the controller to the first pixel shouldn't exceed 8 feet else the  data timing gets distorted and the lights start acting very odd... which is why we don't offer extensions.  Some customers have extended the cables on their own with success but it can be hit or miss.  You might check our forums for ideas.

Later generation smart pixels are more tolerant and the distance from the controller to the first pixel can be 25-50 feet.  _--------------------------
 

"It can be hit or miss" that tells me personally to avoid it lol. I don't trust hit or miss. If they don't offer it, there's probably a good reason like what they explained.

Edited by GriswoldStyle
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1 minute ago, GriswoldStyle said:


Later generation smart pixels are more tolerant and the distance from the controller to the first pixel can be 25-50 feet.  
 

That is also because LOR went from using 5v in the original pixels to 12v in the current pixels.

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25 minutes ago, GriswoldStyle said:

Found it. I actually asked them about an extension for the original 5v CCD. This is the help desk reply they gave....

With that generation of smart pixels the distance from the controller to the first pixel shouldn't exceed 8 feet else the  data timing gets distorted and the lights start acting very odd... which is why we don't offer extensions.  Some customers have extended the cables on their own with success but it can be hit or miss.  You might check our forums for ideas.

Later generation smart pixels are more tolerant and the distance from the controller to the first pixel can be 25-50 feet.  _--------------------------
 

"It can be hit or miss" that tells me personally to avoid it lol. I don't trust hit or miss. If they don't offer it, there's probably a good reason like what they explained.

Odd, then why would LOR make a 5V extender cable for the original units?  

The cables for the 5V extender are at a maximum of 10 feet long, and the smallest I think is 3 feet, with the one I need being the middle one at 5 feet.   Was hoping someone may have used these in the past and know what kind of result they got with them.

So why make one if they aren't really usable or reliable with their own original 5V Cosmic Color Devices?   Now that's confusing to say the least!

 

Edited by Orville
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11 hours ago, Orville said:

Odd, then why would LOR make a 5V extender cable for the original units?  

The cables for the 5V extender are at a maximum of 10 feet long, and the smallest I think is 3 feet, with the one I need being the middle one at 5 feet.   Was hoping someone may have used these in the past and know what kind of result they got with them.

So why make one if they aren't really usable or reliable with their own original 5V Cosmic Color Devices?   Now that's confusing to say the least!

 

My error, they make 2 extenders one is 5 foot, the other 10 foot and is for extending 5v pixel strands from the controller, I think it funny they offer them in black or white, but not green like the boxes and strand colors I have.  But at least black would stand out to know which ones I extended during daylight and be hidden after dark.   If you go here, Pixel Extensions and  you'll see they do make 5V extender cables, the first 4 are for 5V and 4 pin connectors, exactly the same as my connectors on my CCD I - CCB-100 controllers.

So I'm just going to take a chance and buy 2 of the 5 foot ones and hope they work out without any problems.  Since there seems to be a difference on whether these can be extended or not.

Again, if not, I just can't see any reason for LOR making such an extension if they would be problematic with their own controllers.   And I can find nothing about NOT using them with CCD I / 5V devices.   

Especially when the description it does have states this right under the photo of it:{copied, pasted and quoted from original link in my O.P.}

Quote

5 Foot, Black Extension for 5 Volt Bullet Pixels, Square Pixels or Bulbs.

Must be a 4 pin connector!

 

So, I'll just take a chance I won't have any issues with using these.   But thanks anyway.

Once I'm set up and after using them, will let you know how they worked out, "as they come direct from LOR".

Edited by Orville
close large gaps {spaces} between a few areas to shrink comment down smaller..
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Sounds like a plan. I didn't see those ones when I was looking that's why I asked the help desk and when I saw their response it deterred me from doing it. but it definitely would have come in handy to flip it around with a 5 foot extension.---- Edit*** sorry I had already typed this up before devMike responded****

It's a real pain in the sequence editor to build a chase with one going left and the other going right. I'm pretty sure there's a way around that but I kind of hit the ground running with sequencing and have not learned everything I probably should know in the last 2.5 years lol. I only learned the basics and then just kind of figured everything else out on my own. But if there is a better way to flip it around when programming the sequence I'm all ears. when sequencing a chase across all four arches, it's a real pain in se to have one go to the left at pixel 1, then start at pixel 50 on the next one and go from the right up to pixel 1

Edited by GriswoldStyle
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1 hour ago, GriswoldStyle said:

It's a real pain in the sequence editor to build a chase with one going left and the other going right. I'm pretty sure there's a way around that but I kind of hit the ground running with sequencing and have not learned everything I probably should know in the last 2.5 years lol. 

It's actually pretty easy. If you install the strings so they are in a straight continuous line or they chase in one long line then just reverse the order of one of the strings and have the #1 pixel the furthest from the controller.

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3 hours ago, DevMike said:

The drivers used in the old CCDs are not as robust as the ones used in the new CCDs.  New CCDs, regardless of voltage, can be extended.  Old CCDs can NOT.

http://www1.lightorama.com/pixel-extensions/

Okay, that's what that says.   Then Dev Mike, please explain why there are 5V extensions that match the old CCD devices?  Because now I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one confused by these being offered by LOR for 5V lights and controllers, as they state 4 pin, 5V and that's the old CCD I devices.   

So I have to say I'm really puzzled why LOR would build these extenders, especially if they couldn't be used as these are specifically for 4 pin connectors that match the original 5V CCD's. 

Because if they really can't be used, why offer them in the first place.   Seems like that'd be a waste of warehouse space, employee hours paying them to build them and no profit since they wouldn't sell if we go by the link you provided.

Well I've bought them {5 foot ones}, and I'm going to use them, and like stated, we'll see how well they do or don't work, and I'll report my experience back here after I get them and test them out for a bit, if they work well, then it'll give us folks with older version I CCD units a way to place our controllers a little further from the light strands, which will make things easier when we need to extend a strand from the controller to make it work where we need it in our display.

As soon as I get them, updates will follow in a few days of constant testing.

Edited by Orville
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3 hours ago, Mr. P said:

It's actually pretty easy. If you install the strings so they are in a straight continuous line or they chase in one long line then just reverse the order of one of the strings and have the #1 pixel the furthest from the controller.

Mr P do you mind if I pm you for the explanation of what you mean by that later today so I'm not taking over this thread? Not sure I understand what you mean exactly.

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1 hour ago, Orville said:

Then Dev Mike, please explain why there are 5V extensions that match the old CCD devices? 

Because our connectors are not based on device type (old or new CCD), but on VOLTAGE.

1 hour ago, Orville said:

So I have to say I'm really puzzled why LOR would build these extenders, especially if they couldn't be used as these are specifically for 4 pin connectors that match the original 5V CCD's.

Because we sell Pixie controllers that can run at 5V as well as 5V pixels that CAN use the extensions.

That table clearly lays out what can and cannot be extended and for how far.  If the table says you can't, then you can't.

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44 minutes ago, GriswoldStyle said:

Mr P do you mind if I pm you for the explanation of what you mean by that later today so I'm not taking over this thread? Not sure I understand what you mean exactly.

You reverse the order of one of the strings so when you sequence in SE it acts as one long string.

 

 

Order.JPG

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Okay, thanks Dev Mike.

But then there really should be a note in the description that also makes that crystal clear, that these 5V extenders ARE NOT and CAN NOT be used for the original CCB-100 5V controllers {CCD I devices}.  That would have been a big help if there had been additional notation on the product description itself.   As I'm sure I won't be the first or the last person to perhaps fall into buying them because info isn't right there on the descriptor of the product in question.   Sometimes, and in this case, more information would have been better than less. JMO YMMV

Although I'm not sure why one 5V controller can use them and another can't.  5 volts is 5 volts, even at low amperage, extensions up to a specific limit should be possible.

However, I never saw that chart you gave the link too before.  Somehow I just didn't find it.

Looked for something to know for sure, never found anything until your post and link.  But had already bought them before I saw the post.

I'm still going to test them out, because I have extended lights before and was told wasn't possible, but in the real world it was, and it worked.   If it doesn't, I'll find another use for the extender cables.

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5 hours ago, DevMike said:

The drivers used in the old CCDs are not as robust as the ones used in the new CCDs.  New CCDs, regardless of voltage, can be extended.  Old CCDs can NOT.

http://www1.lightorama.com/pixel-extensions/

I followed this link to see it.  I have a collection of bookmarks for reference web pages (for example, the license level comparison, network speed, etc.).   I saw this page and my first thought is "I need to bookmark this page - this will be useful).  Went to click on the "Bookmark this page" icon, and saw that I already had bookmarked it.  I guess I thought it would be useful some other time too!  I did not remember it however...

 

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41 minutes ago, Orville said:

Although I'm not sure why one 5V controller can use them and another can't.  5 volts is 5 volts, even at low amperage, extensions up to a specific limit should be possible.

Because there are two issues at play.  On is voltage drop, and the other is the ability of whatever device to drive data for some distance.  The newer controllers CAN drive the data farther than the older devices.  BTW, the voltage of the data has no relationship to voltage powering the strip.  It's pretty much always about 5 volts.

There are people who are driving pixels directly off the GPIO pins of a Raspberry Pi which outputs about 3.3 volts.  It generally works, but the distance from the Pi to the first pixel is EXTREMELY limited.

 

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4 hours ago, Mr. P said:

You reverse the order of one of the strings so when you sequence in SE it acts as one long string.

 

 

Order.JPG

Is there something I need to click to make it reverse on one of them or do I have to switch the order of the pixels? Sorry if I don't understand properly this is my first year with the pixels for the arches.

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1 hour ago, GriswoldStyle said:

Is there something I need to click to make it reverse on one of them or do I have to switch the order of the pixels? Sorry if I don't understand properly this is my first year with the pixels for the arches.

You set it up when you configure the card.

 

Pixel.JPG

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19 minutes ago, Mr. P said:

You set it up when you configure the card.

 

Pixel.JPG

Thank you for this diagram. Is this the same with the original CCD settings?

I have one that was the original CCD I got from a gentleman this summer, and a brand new one I just got this year in the sale (two different generations). They will both be combined with two sets of 50 pixels each to create four arches in a row.

If this does what I think, it's really going to make it so much easier for me to sequence arch leaps.

Sorry Orville for going off topic asking here, but it seemed logical since this is regarding the 1st Gen ccd. Didn't mean to go off topic. My apologies

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