Network question on setting up a 2nd network

[Orville]

Okay, just bought an USB RS485-HS dongle since I have 5 RGB controllers {CCB-100} and 4 CTB16PC Controllers.  The Red dongle specifically for the RGB controllers and lighting and I have the USB485B for the CTB16PC controllers.

Now when I set up a 2nd network when the new dongle arrives, does it still use the same comm port as the first dongle which will be Network 1 and the high speed dongle Network 2?

Or is there some other things I need to do to set up a 2nd network for the CCB-100 controllers?   

Always just had the one dongle that controlled everything, but due to lag times on the CTB16PC and the CCB100 controllers on the same network, needed the high speed one to keep things running smoothly {I hope}.

Never done this before, so any advice on setting up the second network would be very beneficial and helpful for me to get my 2018 display up and running.

Thanks for any advice and help in advance.

 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Orville

[dibblejr]

16 minutes ago, Orville said:

Okay, just bought an USB RS485-HS dongle since I have 5 RGB controllers {CCB-100} and 4 CTB16PC Controllers.  The Red dongle specifically for the RGB controllers and lighting and I have the USB485B for the CTB16PC controllers.

Now when I set up a 2nd network when the new dongle arrives, does it still use the same comm port as the first dongle which will be Network 1 and the high speed dongle Network 2?

Or is there some other things I need to do to set up a 2nd network for the CCB-100 controllers?   

Always just had the one dongle that controlled everything, but due to lag times on the CTB16PC and the CCB100 controllers on the same network, needed the high speed one to keep things running smoothly {I hope}.

Never done this before, so any advice on setting up the second network would be very beneficial and helpful for me to get my 2018 display up and running.

Thanks for any advice and help in advance.

 

Orville,

Go to the Network Preferences - LOR- aux A-  Set comm port - Select 500K , if you need a comment add one - next go to the "enhanced" and double click that on the Aux A line. You will get a small box click the enhanced and then apply and that box will close back to the original NP. Then hit OK.

That's if Aux A is the network for the CCB's if not just select whichever you wish.

In one or two of the boxes you will get the 500K for G3 devices.

You can check everything in SE View - Channel Config

4.3.34 is slightly different than mine but I think its correct for you. On .18 it doesn't matter which setting in NP I click I get the small box enabling me to change everything at once even the enhanced. But somewhere they made a change and you may have to double click the enhanced section to get the enhanced box.

JR

Edited September 7, 2018 by dibblejr

[k6ccc]

51 minutes ago, Orville said:

Now when I set up a 2nd network when the new dongle arrives, does it still use the same comm port as the first dongle which will be Network 1 and the high speed dongle Network 2?

No, it will have a second Comm Port number.  When you plug it in for the first time, Windows will install the drivers for it, and assign it a Comm Port number.  Then, in Network Preferences, you will assign the (presumably) AuxA network to that comm port.  There is actually no requirement to use AuxA as your second network, but I would assume most of us do (including me).  If you will be running this network in Enhanced mode (recommended), you do need to have the NP in Advanced View in order to see the checkbox for Enhanced.

These screen captures are from 5.1.2, but it has not changed much in a long time...

 

After clicking "More":

 

After selecting "Advanced" display mode (now Enhanced is available):

 

 

[GriswoldStyle]

Not to intrude on the thread, but seeing a few threads talking about network and the dongle so it made me think. I'm getting a little confused. everybody's asking about Networks. Is this based on those that are using a computer to run their show?

I haven't got that far yet in the display to do that (I think).... I'm running everything off of my mp3 mini director that came with the showtime starter package back in 2016. I am going to have 4 AC controllers, 3 cmb24's and 2 ccb's... Also ac controller 4 is on easy light linkers controlling my neighbor's house.

Now since I added the 2 ccd's for pixel arches and the 3 cmb24's this year, will this be a "lag" issue with the mp3 mini director or is that something you guys are referring to for computer-based shows?

If anyone can kind of break this down it might help me understand better. Only 3 years into this so I'm still new to the lingo lol.

[k6ccc]

As more and more people are adding a LOT more channels (pixels are really good at that), the requirement to add multiple networks is far greater than it used to be.  Back in the old days, the standard recommendation for a 115K non-enhanced network (as fast as they got at the time) was six CCRs which comes out to 900 channels.  Because of the way the LOR networking works, that is NOT a hard limit.  The number can vary A LOT depending how complex the sequencing is.  As time progressed, network speeds have increased to 500K and 1000K speeds (although not all devices support the higher speeds), and Enhanced networking (also not supported by all devices).  As I understand it, at Expo 2017, the LOR display ran 7,200 channels on a single 1000K Enhanced network without issue.  Personally I run two LOR networks for my year round landscape lighting, and add a third for Christmas.  That is in addition to E1.31. 

Yes, this discussion all relates to running the show via a computer and not a director.  I've never used a director, so not the expert here.  I know that the newer directors have more capability than the older ones, but if you get large enough, you will exceed the network capabilities of the current directors.

There can also be reasons other than network capacity to run multiple networks.  As I mentioned, not all devices support the higher speeds of Enhanced networking.  I am running all my controllers on my AuxA network in Enhanced mode.  However you can't detect inputs on an Enhanced network, so my Regular network is non-enhanced specifically so I can use an InputPup.  I add another Enhanced network for Christmas primarily because it is convenient for wiring.  In your case, since you are using ELLs to get to the neighbor's house, you may need to split that off onto a separate network because those don't support 500K speed.  Let's say you add a couple thousand channels on your display (a pixel tree for example) so you want to increase the speed of your network to 500K speed.  You would need to split the ELLs to a slower speed network.

 

[dibblejr]

22 minutes ago, GriswoldStyle said:

Not to intrude on the thread, but seeing a few threads talking about network and the dongle so it made me think. I'm getting a little confused. everybody's asking about Networks. Is this based on those that are using a computer to run their show?

I haven't got that far yet in the display to do that (I think).... I'm running everything off of my mp3 mini director that came with the showtime starter package back in 2016. I am going to have 4 AC controllers, 3 cmb24's and 2 ccb's... Also ac controller 4 is on easy light linkers controlling my neighbor's house.

Now since I added the 2 ccd's for pixel arches and the 3 cmb24's this year, will this be a "lag" issue with the mp3 mini director or is that something you guys are referring to for computer-based shows?

If anyone can kind of break this down it might help me understand better. Only 3 years into this so I'm still new to the lingo lol.

I don't think you will have any problems running all of that with a mini director. I ran matrix (pixie16 and pixie8), ccr tree (pixie16) and 4 ac controllers for my local news last summer while I was beta testing the pixie16

At Halloween my show comouter was dead so I ran the entire show off one network (basically what you have with the minidirector) that used the above and added 2 more pixie16's and 10 more AC controllers. I did not notice any lag.

I received my new gaming laptop just in time for my deadline to start the Christmas show branched to 10 networks. Adding another network this year for more pixel props.

I forgot about the ELL's, that I am not sure of. I have a couple that I have not used. Change of plans for now.

JR

Edited September 7, 2018 by dibblejr
added statement about the ELL

[GriswoldStyle]

Thank you for explaining that guys. Pretty sure I'm going to have to upgrade to a computer next year as I am going to add a couple pixel trees. Will keep this in mind

[dibblejr]

49 minutes ago, GriswoldStyle said:

Thank you for explaining that guys. Pretty sure I'm going to have to upgrade to a computer next year as I am going to add a couple pixel trees. Will keep this in mind

It’s very simple to do, at least in S4. But I have not put my hands on S5. No distant future plan too either.

I was kicking around the idea of installing it on the desktop that I haven’t turned on since Halloween 2017

JR

[k6ccc]

The Network Preferences in S5 is essentially identical to S4.

 

[Orville]

Thanks Jim.  That's easy enough.  Unfortunately I can't use the enhanced option, according to the LOR website, the CCB-100 is not capable of using enhanced.

Since comm3 is my current com for Network 1, I'm guessing the new dongle will become comm4 and have set it at that for the CCB-100 Network 2 on Aux A.   But that's easy enough to change if it assigns a different comm port.

Of course, I'm going to have to go in and change all my sequences once the new HS dongle gets here. 

But I think instead of doing this on a channel by channel basis, I'm going to just add a new track and add LOR device and just recreate a duplicate of my original RGB track{track 8} where all the CCB-100 controllers are and then copy and paste from the first section of RGB Controllers to the new track 9,then delete track 8 {Regular RGB Network}, export the new Channel config, then import that back into all my other existing sequences, since all channels will still be in the same place, just the network will be changed to Aux A instead of Regular in Track 9 {which will automatically become Track 8 after the original Track 8 is deleted}.

I think this should work and save me a lot of time from having to change over 1,500 channels one at a time, but allow me to import the new channel config in less time than trying to change every channel individually to the new network!  That would be way too much work and time!

Edited September 7, 2018 by Orville

[k6ccc]

5 minutes ago, Orville said:

Thanks Jim.  That's easy enough.  Unfortunately I can't use the enhanced option, according to the LOR website, the CCB-100 is not capable of using enhanced.

Yes it can.  I'm running my first release CCPs (which use the same controller) on an enhanced network.  Did require a firmware update however.

http://www1.lightorama.com/network-speeds/

7 minutes ago, Orville said:

Since comm3 is my current com for Network 1, I'm guessing the new dongle will become comm4 and have set it at that for the CCB-100 Network 2 on Aux A.   But that's easy enough to change if it assigns a different comm port.

Correct - most likely.   Windows sometimes does some strange things with Comm Port numbers, but you are right, it's easy to change in the Windows Device Manager.

8 minutes ago, Orville said:

Of course, I'm going to have to go in and change all my sequences once the new HS dongle gets here. 

But I think instead of doing this on a channel by channel basis, I'm going to just add a new track and add LOR device and just recreate a duplicate of my

NO!  Yes, you could do that, but there is a FAR easier way.  Open the Channel Configuration utility.  There is a button to change controllers.  That allows you to change everything on a controller in seconds.  Repeat for each controller.  Very fast.  Sorry, I can't look at mine to give step by step or screen captures as I don't have S4 on anything and it's quite different in S5.

 

[Mr. P]

CCB-100's can use Enhanced they just can't run a 1,000K.

[dibblejr]

5 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

Yes it can.  I'm running my first release CCPs (which use the same controller) on an enhanced network.  Did require a firmware update however.

http://www1.lightorama.com/network-speeds/

Correct - most likely.   Windows sometimes does some strange things with Comm Port numbers, but you are right, it's easy to change in the Windows Device Manager.

NO!  Yes, you could do that, but there is a FAR easier way.  Open the Channel Configuration utility.  There is a button to change controllers.  That allows you to change everything on a controller in seconds.  Repeat for each controller.  Very fast.  Sorry, I can't look at mine to give step by step or screen captures as I don't have S4 on anything and it's quite different in S5.

 

Go to SE- view - channel config- change device- select what you want to change and change comm port

Easy

i always go back in once I apply and click on the channel tab or RGB channel tab to ensure it was correct

JR

Edited September 7, 2018 by dibblejr

[Orville]

45 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

Yes it can.  I'm running my first release CCPs (which use the same controller) on an enhanced network.  Did require a firmware update however.

http://www1.lightorama.com/network-speeds/

Correct - most likely.   Windows sometimes does some strange things with Comm Port numbers, but you are right, it's easy to change in the Windows Device Manager.

NO!  Yes, you could do that, but there is a FAR easier way.  Open the Channel Configuration utility.  There is a button to change controllers.  That allows you to change everything on a controller in seconds.  Repeat for each controller.  Very fast.  Sorry, I can't look at mine to give step by step or screen captures as I don't have S4 on anything and it's quite different in S5.

 

Thanks Jim and J.R.. 

Jim, You're right.  Somehow I missed that on the enhanced.

Jim/J.R.: I did figure out how to change the controller/network in the Channel Config in SE.  And that was really simple too!  All this time and I just learned something new. 

Been doing it the "hard way" for years.  Can't believe I missed that.  Guess I need to go back to school and learn how to read an "instruction manual".??

Edited September 7, 2018 by Orville