ELL's, CTB16PC's & CCD Controllers {CCB100}

[Orville]

Okay,  considering adding ELL's to my display due my plan on adding pixels this year to my display, and cutting down on how many CTB16PC controllers I'll be using from 4 to probably 2, maybe 3 of those at most.  Using the LOR CCB100 controllers to control 5VDC LOR CC Pixel or CC Bulbs, the question is, how well does a display work using 2 ELL's, one inside the house and one outside the window for sight to sight communication to each ELL.  The inside ELL connected to an USB485B adapter, the outside will be connected to hopefully if all goes as planned, 5 CCB100 controllers and up to 3 CTB16PC controllers. 

 

Questions are:

Will there be any noticeable lag in the show using the ELL's, as in will any of the sequences be slowed down so slow that it's noticeable?

If the ELL is the first item connected via the Cat5 to the first controller, which could be either the CCB100 or the CTB16PC, will it still receive power from the controller or will I need to add a power supply to the 1st outdoor ELL, if so, what's the input voltage and what adapter if that method is used, would I need amperage or milliamperage?   I have an old LOR 12VDC 1 AMP adapter from when I used an older DC-MP3 Director, will this work for powering the ELL either outside or inside?

If I have any others I can think of, I'll post them in this thread, or if you know of any additional info I might need on the ELL's, please feel free to add in suggestions or comments that may help me with whether or not I want to go this route, as one other option I've been considering is the DC-GEN3 MP3 Director w/real time clock so I can run my display temporarily without the use of a computer until I can get some electrical work done on my home to add what I need outside and to make a way to get cat5 from inside to outside without going through a window or door, which many times is impractical for me currently.

 

Thanks to all that can help and answer these questions.

 

[k6ccc]

The biggest issue you are going to run into is channel capacity.  The ELL is limited to 115K data speed and NOT enhanced protocol.  Five CCBs is 1500 channels which is pushing it for 115K.  More importantly, since you plan on using Pixel Editor functions (yea, I know they are not called that in S5), that requires Enhanced Protocol - which the ELL does not support.

Run a cable and run 500K enhanced for the CCBs (and the CTB16s if they are Gen 3).  If the CTB16s are not Gen 3, plan on a second network for them.

 

[Orville]

2 hours ago, k6ccc said:

The biggest issue you are going to run into is channel capacity.  The ELL is limited to 115K data speed and NOT enhanced protocol.  Five CCBs is 1500 channels which is pushing it for 115K.  More importantly, since you plan on using Pixel Editor functions (yea, I know they are not called that in S5), that requires Enhanced Protocol - which the ELL does not support.

Run a cable and run 500K enhanced for the CCBs (and the CTB16s if they are Gen 3).  If the CTB16s are not Gen 3, plan on a second network for them.

 

Thanks Jim.  No, my CTB's are V2 boards, Gen 2 maybe?   But definitely not Gen3, so they don't or can't use the enhanced protocols.

Now can I use one Cat5 cable port on the USB485B just for the CTB16PC's and the other Cat5 cable port on the USB485B specifically for the CCB-100 controllers?  Would that be 2 networks?   This multi network thing always seems to puzzle and confuse me as to how they are set up.  The way I think it is and the way it really might be may be 2 different things.   So I need some good clarification on them.

Thanks!

 

Edited July 11, 2018 by Orville

[Mr. P]

The USB485B is still considered one network even though it has two ports. You will have to use a second usb port and assign a different comm port for the second network.

[k6ccc]

38 minutes ago, Orville said:

Now can I use one Cat5 cable port on the USB485B just for the CTB16PC's and the other Cat5 cable port on the USB485B specifically for the CCB-100 controllers?  Would that be 2 networks?   This multi network thing always seems to puzzle and confuse me as to how they are set up.  The way I think it is and the way it really might be may be 2 different things.   So I need some good clarification on them.

That would be be just one network.  The two jacks on a USB485B are just two jacks on the same network.

Mr. P just beat me to this info...

 

[Mr. P]

2 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

 

Mr. P just beat me to this info...

 

I checked the online users and didn't see you in here so I figured I would throw it out there.  ?

[Orville]

17 hours ago, Mr. P said:

The USB485B is still considered one network even though it has two ports. You will have to use a second usb port and assign a different comm port for the second network.

Drat, leaves me out then.  Don't think this computer can handle that, all USB ports are in use on it and that's with an ADD in USB 5 Port Card{this IS NOT a hub}, but a PCI 5 USB Port card I bought years ago to use the USB485B for my CTB16PC {older V2 Cards} Gen2{?} controllers.   So I'm stuck with a single network.  Hope it'll do for what I'm planning on this year, if not, I'll have to figure out how to do away with the older CTB16PC's and convert everything, like Blow Mold characters to LOR RGB smart CC Pixel or CC Bulbs and controllers, using what I'll have until I can find a way to get a newer computer to dedicate specifically for the new stuff, as older ones just don't seem to have the capability to handle a lot of the new stuff, like the Pixel Editor and other features in the ever upgrading LOR software suite.

Thanks for the info.

p.s. if everything wasn't USB protocol today, I'd still have quite a few ports left for another USB485, as it is, printers, mice, keyboards, speakers and many other devices used on computers all seem to be compliant to USB ports today.   Sometimes I wish for the old parallel printer port and RS232 port to free up a couple of USB ports!  But know that's not going to happen.

 

Edited July 12, 2018 by Orville

[Mr. P]

With all the extra equipment you listed above to include all the pixels and ELL's to go along with your older generation controllers I can almost guarantee that you will not be able to run all that on one network at the slower speeds. The ELL's and older controllers must be on the slower speeds and once you throw in all the pixels You will probably have a ton of lag.

Is it possible to run a SC485-RJ45 Serial Adapter to get your second network? You will have to find a way to get the older controllers and ELL's on a second network or purchasing Pro for PE will just be a waste of money.

http://store.lightorama.com/scseco.html

Edited July 12, 2018 by Mr. P

[k6ccc]

29 minutes ago, Orville said:

Drat, leaves me out then.  Don't think this computer can handle that, all USB ports are in use on it and that's with an ADD in USB 5 Port Card{this IS NOT a hub}, but a PCI 5 USB Port card I bought years ago to use the USB485B for my CTB16PC {older V2 Cards} Gen2{?} controllers.  

Unplug your existing USB to RS485 adapter and plug in a POWERED USB hub into that port on  the computer.  Then plug multiple USB to RS-485 adapters into that hub.  Note:  STRONGLY recommend a powered hub.  This is the one I'm using on my server:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DQFGH80/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This is a USB 3.0 hub, but you can get the USB 2.0 version for a few bucks less if desired.

 

[Orville]

3 hours ago, k6ccc said:

Unplug your existing USB to RS485 adapter and plug in a POWERED USB hub into that port on  the computer.  Then plug multiple USB to RS-485 adapters into that hub.  Note:  STRONGLY recommend a powered hub.  This is the one I'm using on my server:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DQFGH80/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This is a USB 3.0 hub, but you can get the USB 2.0 version for a few bucks less if desired.

 

Thanks folks, kind of figured that may be a problem.  Will see what I can come up with.

I know I  do have a few of those powered USB hubs around, but so many times I heard they weren't good enough if they didn't have their own power supply off a wall outlet via an adapter as opposed to being powered off the USB hub on the computer.

I lost the adapters to the ones I have, but know that one was 9VDC and the others were 12VDC,  just have to find an older adapter with the old stereo type plug over a USB plug to use them, as that's what they used to power them. 

Got plenty of old adapters of a wide assortment of voltages that some have barrel plugs and quite a lot that don't have ends on them any longer, mainly the wire going to the power connector at the end of the wire went bad, cut those off and tested, adapter good, but no plug.  

Maybe if I can open one of those old USB hubs I can maybe solder the adapter straight into the power port and get one of them to work.   

Ah,  just what I needed, another project to locate and modify before Christmas to get my display functional.  LOL

Looked at the one you gave the link too, nice, but I think if I end up buying a new one, I think I'll go with this one. 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072LW1RGG/ref=sspa_dk_detail_3?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B072LW1RGG&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=1713835751726239774&pf_rd_r=8E4MA6ZQ3RPZ49K2W8WY&pd_rd_wg=1Io2N&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&pd_rd_w=tPNOI&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pd_rd_r=bb34ecc3-860b-11e8-9d63-255c035dbfa0

I like the facts I can actually turn off unused USB ports on it, and the fact it lights up to show the port actually has power going to it.  Nice features on this one, and the price isn't too bad and with free shipping!   This one should be fine too, right?

Edited July 12, 2018 by Orville
Add link to 7 port USB Hub

[Orville]

8 hours ago, Mr. P said:

With all the extra equipment you listed above to include all the pixels and ELL's to go along with your older generation controllers I can almost guarantee that you will not be able to run all that on one network at the slower speeds. The ELL's and older controllers must be on the slower speeds and once you throw in all the pixels You will probably have a ton of lag.

Is it possible to run a SC485-RJ45 Serial Adapter to get your second network? You will have to find a way to get the older controllers and ELL's on a second network or purchasing Pro for PE will just be a waste of money.

http://store.lightorama.com/scseco.html

Already upgraded to PRO.  Can't use the PE until I get a newer graphics card as the one in my system does not support the OpenGL 1.5 or higher needed to even use the PE software currently.

Working out other things for the moment, but will get this sorted out and all working before it's needed. {I HOPE!}