Lights stay on - 2 channels

[k6ccc]

Keep that rain coming south.   We need it even more in southern California...

 

[a31ford]

put snubbers on those two strands... problem fixed... 

 

Snubber... a ONE WATT not 1/2 or 1/4 a ONE WATT, 6.4 K ohm resistor (that is 6400 ohms) in short hand, across the two wires of a strand (can simply be an end with the resistor installed on the two screws of that plug, make sure that it is NOT out in the open (put the rear cap back on), and plug it into the female on the end of that strand of lights.

If the lights are left on for long periods of time (like over 1 minute), make sure the resistor does not get too hot, it will get warm though.

Another way is to make a short male / female cord with the resistor in one of those ends and simply plug it in anywhere ON THAT STRINGS POWER (NOT THE CONTROLLERS POWER, IT HAS TO BE ON THAT CHANNEL THAT IS CONTROLLING THAT STRING.)

I Would NOT recommend installing it in the controller, as this would leave live wires and might cause a heat problem....

 

The reason that string (or strings) are is/are causing this problem is "capacitive loading effect" on the Triac(s) in question.

Triac's love a resistive load, are somewhat finicky with inductive, and downright confused with capacitive loads.

Some light string mfg's use a capacitor in place of a loading resistor to set the milliamp draw for the lamps of that string (capacitors run cooler) also a cap will not burn out the way a resistor will.. HOWEVER these strings are considered "cheap" as they will be only half wave rectified and will shimmer or blink as you drive by.

A proper string will be fullwave (or dual-diode in each light) fullwave generally requires a bridge rectifier in the plug (built in by the mfg) or dual opposite biased LED's in each light on the string.

 

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by a31ford
sorry for the long winded answer......

[Trasher74]

I hope you guys in California aren't too close to all of the fires.  What a horrible year it's been.

a31ford....... thanks for offering a solution.  Unfortunately, you lost me in the first sentence.  If this is an easier solution than replacing the lights, I wish I understood!!!

 

[a31ford]

do you have any vampire plugs and access the the "far end" of those 2 strands of lights ??

if you do, simply get a couple of 1 watt 6.4k resistors (note the decimal in there) and have a buddy solder the resistor across the 2 pins of the plug, once done, cover the resistor and back end of the plug with 5 min. epoxy.. plug the "snubber" into the female end of the string that is giving you issues...  do one for each channel that is staying on...

[Mega Arch]

Glad you’re getting it narrowed down. Also, in addition to the great advice above, this seems ridiculous, but work with me here. 

Turn the plug over - reversing the polarity of how plugged in. 

[a31ford]

I think I know where Mega is going with his request, and I agree with him.... (there is method in his (our) madness, it's just why do the rest of you see through my disguise of it being Christmas related......... (I'm referring to how nut ball sounding it is... however,  it's me that is the nutball..........)

[Mega Arch]

2 hours ago, a31ford said:

...... (I'm referring to how nut ball sounding it is... however,  it's me that is the nutball..........)

all of us nutballs gotta stick together 

???

[Trasher74]

Okay, I'm going to try reversing the polarity as Mega Arch has suggested when I get home.  I will say, I don't think that's gonna help, but I will try.

As for what a31ford has suggested, I'm still a bit confused.  I'm lost with "vampire" plugs.  Not sure where to get the resistors mentioned (are you other guys on board with the resistor suggestion?), and still confused as to what to do with the resistors.

The "far ends" of the lights are at the top of the flag pole.

So, it is rain and weather on the "far end" female "end to end" plugs that are the problem?  Can I cut off the far end female plug and cap them?  Is this where the resistor goes?  Cut the wires, solder in the resistor and epoxy cap them?

Sorry that I don't always understand....I've noticed that as I get older, it's harder to learn and remember new things.

All of your help is very much appreciated.

[Mega Arch]

Can get resistors at radio supply stores or online. Don’t cut ends off. Fold wire ends of resistor and plug into the female ends of light strands. Just tape in place to see if it works for your situation. If it does, squirt clear silicone sealant all over it to hold in place and keep moisture out. 

[Trasher74]

Alright, this entire conversation has me convinced that I am clueless!  Anyway, reversing the polarity seems to have helped.  Not 100% I don't think, but it did have a affect (effect?).  

Back to the resistor conversation, if I understand correctly, you are saying to take a resistor (similar to the one shown), and insert the wires into the holes on the end plug, like the photo shown.  And then silicone, etc. etc.  Correct?

Now I have a hypothetical question.  Let's say that next year, I decide to get all new lights (16 strings for the MegaTree).  I've considered going all green instead of multi-color.  It seems that the female plug at the far end is the source of the problem.  Why wouldn't you cut it off and end the string with caps, epoxy, silicone, or whatever, obviously not letting the two wires touch?  

Also, now that Radio Shack is gone, can someone possibly find a link to the right resistor please?

[Mega Arch]

Buy full wave quality lights during presales in early 2018 and shouldn’t have to do anything. I haven’t had issues like this with any of the ones from HLE and they give 3 season warranty. (Haven’t needed the warranty either. Still haven’t had a failure with theirs)

[Mega Arch]

& the female is not the problem. That’s the easiest place to add the bandaid resistor. Except that it’s up in the air. 

So can tap a vampire at the ground end and do the same thing. Most likely. 

[Mega Arch]

https://www.alliedelec.com/nte-electronics-inc-1w268/70723907/

 

[a31ford]

 LETS get back to basics.... 

 

take the two strings that are giving problems...unplug them at the controller, and plug two OTHER strings into the channels that those 2 where plugged into.... even if you have to use 2 new strings OR simply move two known good strings to these controller channels, this will prove that it is the strings that are giving you problems and not the controller.

 

let us know the results of the test...

 

A) the problem is gone. (the strings are the problem)

 

B ) the problem went to the two other strings you tried (controller is the problem)

Edited December 19, 2017 by a31ford

[Santas Helper]

14 hours ago, Mega Arch said:

Buy full wave quality lights during presales in early 2018 and shouldn’t have to do anything. I haven’t had issues like this with any of the ones from HLE and they give 3 season warranty. (Haven’t needed the warranty either. Still haven’t had a failure with theirs)

CDI (Creative Displays Inc) is currently holding their presale of 40% off until January 31st.  

[Santas Helper]

14 hours ago, Mega Arch said:

& the female is not the problem. That’s the easiest place to add the bandaid resistor. Except that it’s up in the air. 

So can tap a vampire at the ground end and do the same thing. Most likely. 

Daniel is correct on both.

I've done it with my mega tree but I didn't add a vampire plug for the resistor. I just added the resistor to the two male prongs on the light plug and plugged it in. Fixed the issue I had a few years ago with some pesky issues.

[Mega Arch]

2 hours ago, Santas Helper said:

.....I just added the resistor to the two male prongs on the light plug and plugged it in. Fixed the issue I had a few years ago with some pesky issues.

But that’s just too easy. 

[Trasher74]

a31ford.......yes, I have determined that it is the two strings that are the problem.

I reversed the polarity, and there was an improvement, but not a total fix.

I don't know about you all, but we don't have Radio Shack any more, so I've not found any local stores that sell resistors, and I haven't pursued purchasing any yet.  Thanks MegaArch for providing the link for the resistors.  It looks like they do not have any in stock.  And at 14¢ each, I'm not sure my budget can handle it!!  I am curious to pursue the resistor option.  So far, all the advice and help I have received here has been good.  

Santa's Helper....... I appreciate the information about Creative Displays Inc. but that is outside my budget.  They might call it a sale, but way too expensive for me.

Why do you guys think these lights stop functioning properly at some point?  They aren't that old.  One day they were okay, the next these problems started.  I still wonder if moisture is my main problem here in the Pacific Northwest.  I've had individual bulbs stop functioning, not because the bulb went out, but because the metal contacts rust and fall off.  I'm still thinking about terminating the light strands at the female end (next year most likely).  They are up at the top of the display and collect a lot of water.

Time will tell, thanks for all the advice.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Trasher74
Type

[Mega Arch]

Partly because the lights Santas Helper (Tom) threw at you are full-wave sealed. The cheap ones you have are half-wave and not sealed.

I buy similar from HLE. With a 3 season warranty, are we really spending that much more? Oh, & I’ve not had to try the warranty as haven’t had a failure yet. 

[TheDucks]

On 12/18/2017 at 10:36 AM, Trasher74 said:

Okay, I'm going to try reversing the polarity as Mega Arch has suggested when I get home.  I will say, I don't think that's gonna help, but I will try.

As for what a31ford has suggested, I'm still a bit confused.  I'm lost with "vampire" plugs.  Not sure where to get the resistors mentioned (are you other guys on board with the resistor suggestion?), and still confused as to what to do with the resistors.

The "far ends" of the lights are at the top of the flag pole.

So, it is rain and weather on the "far end" female "end to end" plugs that are the problem?  Can I cut off the far end female plug and cap them?  Is this where the resistor goes?  Cut the wires, solder in the resistor and epoxy cap them?

Sorry that I don't always understand....I've noticed that as I get older, it's harder to learn and remember new things.

All of your help is very much appreciated.

There is a Fry's in Seattle (but don't count on their stock being complete, if it like the ones down here )

A resistor is just a small non-polarized load. You could use a4W  C7 Night light, Glade plugin...