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LOR, a crazy halloween idea and possible electrocution?


thebaronn

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Hello!

So I'm wrapping up my St. Patricks display and thinking towards other holidays. I messed up and just assumed easter would be in april......oops. So that holiday will not be happening. So the next big ones are the 4th of july and Halloween (i'm thinking of doing a Cinco de Mayo display, any thoughts on that???)

So i first thought of this idea for the 4th of July, but I decided it was better suited(hah! that pun will become apparant later in this message) for Halloween. For this main reason: What I want to do is pretty much a one night deal and what better night than Halloween? Everyone is out already and you get a built in fan base of kids coming by!

So i need opinions from people about this possibly dangerous idea. I want to put lights on a costume and have the lights synced to LOR!!!!

First question: Right now I am lazy and use several of the LOR1602W ready to go products. And those beauties are heavy! I was looking at one of the kits to where I could use a plastic case to largly reduce the weight. But 16 channels seemed like too many (but then again....) So I was thinking of strapping a LOR800W to my back, having it plugged in and the lights on my costume dancing!!!

Sounds pretty sweet, but deadly?? Of course if it starts raining I should start running!!! But if I had the LOR plugged into one of those safety trip outlets (like in the outlets in the bathrooms) will I be okay?

I'm sick, I pretty much going forward with this. But I would like any suggestions so as I make it alive through halloween to all saints day!

Thank you for your input!

Eric

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The closest I would consider would be one of the DC cards running 12 volts. Find 12 volt LED strings, or build up your own, with current limiting resistors... It's a smaller, lighter card, and if you go all LED, you could probably even use a 12 volt cordless drill battery to run it all night...

- Kevin

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I would think that there are better ways to do what you want without having to saddle yourself with all the cords.

That being said, I was once in a haunted house where we took a train set transformer and hooked it up to a Freddy Krueger glove (that we built). When we grounded the hot blades on the glove to the fence that we were using as a prop, sparks flew.

It was very cool and 25 volts weren't that dangerous.

The worst part of the scene was that our Freddy was limited by the wiring itself.

Other than that, it sounds like a cool idea.

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thebaronn wrote:

Hello!

So I'm wrapping up my St. Patricks display and thinking towards other holidays. I messed up and just assumed easter would be in april......oops. So that holiday will not be happening. So the next big ones are the 4th of july and Halloween (i'm thinking of doing a Cinco de Mayo display, any thoughts on that???)

So i first thought of this idea for the 4th of July, but I decided it was better suited(hah! that pun will become apparant later in this message) for Halloween. For this main reason: What I want to do is pretty much a one night deal and what better night than Halloween? Everyone is out already and you get a built in fan base of kids coming by!

So i need opinions from people about this possibly dangerous idea. I want to put lights on a costume and have the lights synced to LOR!!!!

First question: Right now I am lazy and use several of the LOR1602W ready to go products. And those beauties are heavy! I was looking at one of the kits to where I could use a plastic case to largly reduce the weight. But 16 channels seemed like too many (but then again....) So I was thinking of strapping a LOR800W to my back, having it plugged in and the lights on my costume dancing!!!

Sounds pretty sweet, but deadly?? Of course if it starts raining I should start running!!! But if I had the LOR plugged into one of those safety trip outlets (like in the outlets in the bathrooms) will I be okay?

I'm sick, I pretty much going forward with this. But I would like any suggestions so as I make it alive through halloween to all saints day!

Thank you for your input!

.


EricHere are my thoughts... what they may be worth



I am planning something simular here is what I had planned.



Use a DC-MP3 (the mini director) with a 16DC (from LOR) controller and LEDs (I have purchased some "light strips" that I used in my Christmas show, but may build some custom LED sets as well), You can go to www.joneslights.com and watch the video of my Christmas Show and see the light strips (they are the blue bars on the roof of the garage)

The system would be powered by a 12V battery from a UPS system and should give me power for about 1 hour, which is all I need. Here is a thread that I had posted to see what peoples thoughts would be and here is the link. http://lightorama.mywowbb.com/forum25/15865.html

It looks like it is a go and I'm about to test the setup (waiting on a DC mini to get here)

I hope I've helped, if not I hope my mindless typing hasn't put you out too much.



Greg
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Low voltage DC would be safer but more difficult to get all the parts. If you are plugged into a GFIC then you would be fairly safe from shock.

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LightORamaDan wrote:

Low voltage DC would be safer but more difficult to get all the parts. If you are plugged into a GFIC then you would be safe from shock.



I would strongly caution against that broad a blanket statement.

1) There is a limit to how fast the GFCI can interrupt the power. During the time it takes for the GFCI to remove power, you could receive current above the GFCI threshold.

2) GFCI's only trip on imbalance between hot and neutral on that circuit. If you had half way insulated shoes on, it would be possible for you to develop a low resistance path to neutral on one arm, and a low resistance path to hot on the other arm, that could flow any level of current up to the breaker size without tripping the GFCI...

I suppose you could mitigate number 2 by intentionally grounding yourself, but how well is a question... for ESD work, they specifically tell you not to create a low resistance connection between your body and ground, but I think that is both to reduce risk of ESD type damage when you plug in, and so that if you accidentally come into contact with a voltage potential, the current is limited. In fact, I would expect ESD grounding straps probably limit the current to the point where the GFCI would not trip...

- Kevin


Comment from Adminstator Dan:

Kevin is correct. GFCIs are not perfect. The do work as he said by measuring the number of electrons moving on the hot and neutral wire. As long are very close to the the same number then the GFCI assume there is no fault (no electrons are leaking away) Those electrons could be going through your body and the GFCI would be happy as long as you were directly between the hot and neutral wire and all the electrons were going directly through you.... Of course, you would not be so happy.

In general GFICs provide you with excellent protection from shock in situations where your body provides a path to ground which is the most common cause of electrocution.
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-klb- wrote:

The closest I would consider would be one of the DC cards running 12 volts. Find 12 volt LED strings, or build up your own, with current limiting resistors... It's a smaller, lighter card, and if you go all LED, you could probably even use a 12 volt cordless drill battery to run it all night...

- Kevin


actually you can get all kinds of 12v LED goodies at most BIG BOX auto parts stores...



or something like this may be really cool..

http://www.neonstring.com/ http://www.glowire.com/
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-klb- wrote:

LightORamaDan wrote:
Low voltage DC would be safer but more difficult to get all the parts. If you are plugged into a GFIC then you would be safe from shock.



I would strongly caution against that broad a blanket statement.

1) There is a limit to how fast the GFCI can interrupt the power. During the time it takes for the GFCI to remove power, you could receive current above the GFCI threshold.

2) GFCI's only trip on imbalance between hot and neutral on that circuit. If you had half way insulated shoes on, it would be possible for you to develop a low resistance path to neutral on one arm, and a low resistance path to hot on the other arm, that could flow any level of current up to the breaker size without tripping the GFCI...

I suppose you could mitigate number 2 by intentionally grounding yourself, but how well is a question... for ESD work, they specifically tell you not to create a low resistance connection between your body and ground, but I think that is both to reduce risk of ESD type damage when you plug in, and so that if you accidentally come into contact with a voltage potential, the current is limited. In fact, I would expect ESD grounding straps probably limit the current to the point where the GFCI would not trip...

- Kevin


Comment from Adminstator Dan:

Kevin is correct. GFCIs are not perfect. The do work as he said by measuring the number of electrons moving on the hot and neutral wire. As long are very close to the the same number then the GFCI assume there is no fault (no electrons are leaking away) Those electrons could be going through your body and the GFCI would be happy as long as you were directly between the hot and neutral wire and all the electrons were going directly through you.... Of course, you would not be so happy.

In general GFICs provide you with excellent protection from shock in situations where your body provides a path to ground which is the most common cause of electrocution.



Actually guys, just a bit of a correction (to the bolded statement above).

GFCI's will "trip" with a differential flow of current in any one (or more) of 3 ways, which include a differential flow between hot and neutral, as stated, but also between:

2) hot and ground

3) neutral and ground

Depending on the circumstances, there could be a differential along any of these 3 paths, whether you were grounded or not.

That being said, I certainly agree that I would not depend on GCFIs from protecting me from receiving an electrical shock, although they should protect against a serious/fatal shock, unless of course the device is not working properly (and they do sometimes fail like any other device).

If I had anything electrical attached to me, especially in an outside environment, you can be sure it would never be 120 volts!


Greg
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