Jump to content
Light-O-Rama Forums
robigd

CCR/CCB Network Capacity Question

Recommended Posts

Hi,

I am currently running 5 CCB controllers (10) strings on RS485-HS with Enhanced Network.

I am also adding a Pixie16 CCR tree to my display this year and am wondering if I can run this on the same network with no issue or if I need to purchase another RS485?

Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there any LOR documentation on pixel count per network?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, robigd said:

 

Edited by BMurray

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Assuming you are running at 500k speed, you should be OK. Longer answer when I get to my PC.

Sent from my Droid Turbo via Tapatalk, so blame any typos or spelling errors on Android

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks guys! BMurray, I am unable to see what you posted.

I am more curious for next year as I intend on adding a bunch of pixie controllers and am just trying to wrap my head around how many strings I can put on each network. I believe I heard the complexity of the sequence also needs to be taken into play when determining network load as well?

I just figured with the recent pixel explosion, LOR would have some kind of network parameters posted somewhere.

Thanks again!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now on a computer, so a longer answer.  I have not seen any definitive words from LOR on the subject recently, however apparently at Christmas Expo 2016, they were running something like 2400 pixels on one network.  Going back in history, the general rule of thumb was six CCRs (900 channels) per network.  However at that time, 115K speed was as fast as it got.  Since then 500k speed has been added which should approximately triple the throughput, and for a few controller types, 1000k speed which will increase it more.  Lastly, there is enhanced networking.  LOR has not stated what is different with Enhanced Networking, but I have a pretty good idea what they did.  Assuming my guess is right, that should increase capacity by at least twofold.

52 minutes ago, robigd said:

BMurray, I am unable to see what you posted.

That's interesting.  When I first read this thread on my phone a couple hours ago, I saw BMurray's post, but I'm seeing it blank now (on both the PC and phone).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you very much for the detailed answer. I purchased an additional adapter with my order just to be safe and will probably end up doing separate networks this season but will put them all one network to test before I take it down for the year.

All of my controllers use the enhanced network, so it would be great to hear what actual pixel capacity is on these.

Thanks again!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember that for LOR networking, there is no hard answer.  Unlike DMX which sends the level of every channel dozens of times every second, the LOR protocol is quite intelligent.  Therefore, it makes FAR more efficient use of the network.  The result is that it depends on how much change there is going on over time.  The "rule of thumb" I gave in my previous post is a general rule of thumb, not an absolute hard number.  It wold be cool to have a "speedometer" that in real time would show the LOR network utilization.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

K6ccc

Man do I agree with that statement!

I am running into major delay issues this year and have to "dummy-down" my effects!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vince, how many of what devices are you running on how fast and type of networking?

And why not just split networks? Changing channel config in either SE or Visualizer (for import to PE or SS) would take far less effort that re-sequencing.

Sent from my Droid Turbo via Tapatalk, so blame any typos or spelling errors on Android

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am running (1) Pixcon16 (using only 1500 pixels) on AuxA at 500K

I am running (6) AC controllers, (3) Dumb RGB controllers and (2) CCR's on Network #1 at 115K

Using a G3 to run show.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vince, are you getting a delay on Aux or network 1?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Vince4xmas said:

I am running (1) Pixcon16 (using only 1500 pixels) on AuxA at 500K

Using the old six CCRs on a 115K network general rule of thumb from years ago, your 30 CCR equivalent could very well be pushing a 500K network.

As I recall, the Pixcon requires enhanced protocol, so you must already be doing that.  And if I remember right, the G3 director can go to 1000K speed, and Pixcon can as well.  Assuming my memory is correct (I've never used any director, nor a Pixcon), can you switch your AuxA to 1000K speed and see if that helps?  If you do, remember that although you have a simple network, as speeds go up, properly terminating the RS-485 network may become more critical.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOR Help states they have an issue and you cannot run Pixcon at 1000K with G3........said they would fix next update.

Could you please describe in detail this "proper terminating".

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RS-485 spec says that the circuit should have a 120 ohm termination at the end of the circuit. In general, you can get away with no termination, but as network complexity increases, or network speed increases, or total cable length increases, lack of termination can cause problems. So, for example a network consisting of a USB adapter and a single controller with 50 feet of cable running at 19k speed, would almost certainly not have an issue from lack of termination. However a circuit consisting of a USB adapter driving 31 controllers with a total length of 3,500 feet of cable running at 1,000k speed would very likely have issues without termination. Most of us are somewhere in between this two extremes.

A termination consists of a 120 ohm resistor between pins 4 & 5 of a RJ-45 connector plugged into the unused connector on the last controller. BTW, for DMX equipment that is using RJ-45 connectors, the termination is on pins 1 & 2.

Sent from my Droid Turbo via Tapatalk, so blame any typos or spelling errors on Android

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

RS-485 spec says that the circuit should have a 120 ohm termination at the end of the circuit. In general, you can get away with no termination, but as network complexity increases, or network speed increases, or total cable length increases, lack of termination can cause problems. So, for example a network consisting of a USB adapter and a single controller with 50 feet of cable running at 19k speed, would almost certainly not have an issue from lack of termination. However a circuit consisting of a USB adapter driving 31 controllers with a total length of 3,500 feet of cable running at 1,000k speed would very likely have issues without termination. Most of us are somewhere in between this two extremes.

A termination consists of a 120 ohm resistor between pins 4 & 5 of a RJ-45 connector plugged into the unused connector on the last controller. BTW, for DMX equipment that is using RJ-45 connectors, the termination is on pins 1 & 2.

Sent from my Droid Turbo via Tapatalk, so blame any typos or spelling errors on Android

At risk of sounding like an idiot, what is a termination? I have been doing CCBs for 3 years and never heard of this. Is this something that needs to be jncorportated only on networks with a very large number of controllers?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Try reading the post that you quoted. I answered your questions.

Sent from my Droid Turbo via Tapatalk, so blame any typos or spelling errors on Android

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, k6ccc said:

Try reading the post that you quoted. I answered your questions.

Sent from my Droid Turbo via Tapatalk, so blame any typos or spelling errors on Android

Sorry, I guess I just didn't understand the concept of a termination.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While likely most folks have modern systems, it occurs to me that the type of USB port being used may impact the likelihood of getting the full 500Kb bandwidth utilization from the enhanced network.   A USB 2 is only 480Kb, and USB 1 only 12Kb.  That would impact the throughput regardless of the speed of the 485 adapter I would think.     ... 

Just a thought.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, scubanimal said:

While likely most folks have modern systems, it occurs to me that the type of USB port being used may impact the likelihood of getting the full 500Kb bandwidth utilization from the enhanced network.   A USB 2 is only 480Kb, and USB 1 only 12Kb.  That would impact the throughput regardless of the speed of the 485 adapter I would think.     ...

You're only off by three orders of magnitude - MegaBit not KiloBit.  USB-1 is 12Mb/s (in high speed) or 1.5Mb/s (in low speed).  USB-2 is 480Mb/s.  Even USB-1 in low speed mode is faster than anything we're doing.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...