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EBAY CTB16PC KIT BUILD ALERT

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It appears someone, perhaps several people to whom I have sold CTB16PC kits completely assembled to has been reselling them on ebay. Not interested in naming names to anyone, but I suspect if you have bid on a CTB16PC in the last few days on ebay it is likely one of mine. PM me links and I can confirm one way or the other if you have bid on my former units.

I am really disappointed in the level of shenanigans that goes on around here these days. I am suspending any further sales.

Drew 

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Well, the way I look at it I would never do this. However if someone is dumb enough to pay the prices that are being ask on Ebay then they ask for it. You  did get your money and the units are now theirs to do with as they see fit. Right or wrong.

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I understand. It's a matter of ethics or lack of. I've noticed this forum is starting to attract some questionable characters. Have you noticed a majority of the posts are people begging for free sequence so they can use somebody else's work. I'm almost afraid to mention what sequences I have done

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It's the misrepresentation of the unit as the LOR assembled model on ebay where I have to draw the line. Sadly the people who are actually buying on ebay will probably never see this message.

Drew

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You could always report it to Ebay...

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If I didn't already have two new to me pros sitting in the garage waiting to be fit in, I might have gotten these from ya.  I have the dreaded LOR disease that compels me to purchase any controllers I see that are a good deal.  Now I think I'm up to 11 A/C controllers.  Back in B.P. times, I would have been considered a big display, but now it's just *Meh*  (B.P. = the time "Before Pixels" when string lights still ruled)  If you need someone to " Hold on to them" let me know.

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Drew
 
OK.  I raise my hand. This sounds like me.
 
I could hide, but won't. I appreciate this community and all the information here. It's been posted here many times to sell on ebay for best pricing as the buyers are not so savvy over there and pay a higher price.  There is also some headaches to be had if you go that route.  You get buyers rating you poorly over shipping fees that were posted and then demanding a rebate after the purchase (my current peeve about my seller rating).  You gamble on the sale as you don't know what the sale price will be if you put it up for auction.  You pay a commission no matter what the final price is.
 
I paid the asking price here. I even took the leap of faith and did what I would advise was the stupid thing and donated money to your paypal account.  Giving up my buyer protection trying to maximize your bottom $$.  You willingly sold to me. We had no conversations on how the controllers were to be used.  I don't understand how this can be considered Crooked.
 
I sell on ebay with many pictures and identify the units as used. I post what I think is general information about the controllers - pasted from the LOR website.  In my mind, all non version 3 boards are the same. It doesn't matter weather they were built from scratch, assembled as a kit, or a complete assembly by LOR.  But that's just me. The bottom line is all channels work as designed on the used units.
 
Did I break an unwritten Brotherhood of Christmas Lighters rule?
 
My funding of this hobby has expanded from scouring the stores after Christmas and purchasing every box of lights I can get at 75% off and reselling at a profit to also now include controllers. 
 
I am sorry if this is emotionally distressing .
 
I will not respond again so as not to feed any fire here.  Anyone that wants a response, send me a PM
 
I don't think I did anything wrong, but would love to hear other opinions on this.
 
Steve
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I will give my opinion as I agree and disagree with the both both of you.

First off, yes you bought the controllers fair and square and paid the asking price. They are yours and you should be able to do with them as you please. If you want to list them on Ebay and sell them at a profit or take a chance and sell at a loss then that is your right. Nobody has any right to fault you nor bad mouth you because of it.

However, on the other hand I do disagree with the way you have them listed on Ebay. You never mention that they were a kit built by the customer and not built by LOR. You have a picture and description of the CTB16PC Add-On from the LOR website where if a buyer goes to check your product they will be mislead into thinking it was a factory built product when it was actually built by the consumer. 

The Ebay purchaser may look at the LOR website and see that a new CTB16PC built and fully assembled by LOR costs $259.95 So they may think they are getting a deal which you are representing since you don't mention it was a kit. In actuality since it is a kit and when you add in the cables and box the total comes to $166.90, to me personally that is deceitful since you are knowingly not informing buyers of this.

Bottom line, if I was buying something and it wasn't built and assembled by the company I would want to know that.

This is just my two cents so take it as you will.

Edited by Mr. P
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Yeah, don't care about the reselling have to assume that would happen one day and I don't even care about any profit. Not mentioning they are kit builds, that is the rub for me. So I am not exactly sure what there is to disagree with me about. 

Also, didn't have any intention of stopping an auction or ever naming who it was selling them to anyone... so... yeah... I just offered to let someone here know if they had bid on my units by mistake.

Drew

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I recently had a bad experience on Ebay.  I purchased a 50 watt UV flood that was listed as NEW and UNUSED in Any display for $125. The one I got appeared to have been through a war.  SOOOOO bad.  When I called him out on it he claimed it was sent to him that way by LOR.  Sorry dude,  LOR doesn't sell used equipment.  Even after I opened a case with eBay and sent pictures he still claimed it was new AND it was malfunctioning which he claimed it was because I didn't know how to use the equipment.  OMG,  wish I could share the messages this nimrod sent.  After I while I wasnt mad it was just hilariously bad. So end result was that eBay sided with me,  got my refund,  and I i ordered a NEW one from LOR to go along with the OTHER one I bought from LOR.  So lessened learned.... STAY AWAY FROM eBay when it comes to this hobbies equipment.  Buy any used equipment from reputable members of this forum.  

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No issue with buying from here and  reselling. As far as some claims that  ebayer selling these "kit" controllers,misrepresent or maybe better term..under represented...I have mixed feeling.  There are numberous LOR Coffee Shop ads where not much info is given, with potential  buyers ask for more details...age, version, kit or not, etc. So do we now claim that these LOR FS ads are under representing an item?

 

Guess I'm a firm believer in a potential buyer becoming a more savy comsumer by asking quessing, whether here or on ebay.  Many times I've ask an ebayer...any issues not describe in item description.  Sometimes I get more condition details that weren't mention and can also gauge a buyer's responsiness.

 

 

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I had always read that the LOR customer built kits ON the LOR site itself, that the boards may be the same, but some parts are not the same as the factory ready to go units.  Especially some of the resistors on the kit versions are not the same as the LOR ready to go units.

I'd never buy any LOR products from E-Bay, if I'm going to buy used equipment, I'll buy them from a member in my area or NEW direcrly from LOR themselves!

 That's the only way I'm buying used LOR items!

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36 minutes ago, Orville said:

I had always read that the LOR customer built kits ON the LOR site itself, that the boards may be the same, but some parts are not the same as the factory ready to go units.  Especially some of the resistors on the kit versions are not the same as the LOR ready to go units.

I'd never buy any LOR products from E-Bay, if I'm going to buy used equipment, I'll buy them from a member in my area or NEW direcrly from LOR themselves!

 That's the only way I'm buying used LOR items!

Good point! You beat me to it. The difference is that the LOR kits use a lot more "through hole" components like ICs resistors and capacitors. The pre-assembled units use a lot more "SMD components (surface mount)" these components are smaller and are soldered on top of the board often in factory by a machine. 

NOTE that older assembled boards from LOR used through hole components, I think they were from 2007 and older but am not sure maybe someone can chime in on that.

Here are two pictures hopefully you can see the difference:

Factory built SMD controller board

Kit built Through hole controller board

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43 minutes ago, Orville said:

I had always read that the LOR customer built kits ON the LOR site itself, that the boards may be the same, but some parts are not the same as the factory ready to go units.  Especially some of the resistors on the kit versions are not the same as the LOR ready to go units.

I'd never buy any LOR products from E-Bay, if I'm going to buy used equipment, I'll buy them from a member in my area or NEW direcrly from LOR themselves!

 That's the only way I'm buying used LOR items!

Boards and components are different. LOR boards are set up for surface mount components. Customer built units are like the old LOR boards and have through hole components. And customer build board has more potential for solder Bridges and cold solder joints, and that's why it's important to inform a potential buyer what board it is. (Although most people on eBay would have no idea what you're talking about)

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2 hours ago, canadianchristmas said:

Good point! You beat me to it. The difference is that the LOR kits use a lot more "through hole" components like ICs resistors and capacitors. The pre-assembled units use a lot more "SMD components (surface mount)" these components are smaller and are soldered on top of the board often in factory by a machine. 

NOTE that older assembled boards from LOR used through hole components, I think they were from 2007 and older but am not sure maybe someone can chime in on that.

Here are two pictures hopefully you can see the difference:

Factory built SMD controller board

Kit built Through hole controller board

I forgot about that aspect, thanks for reminding me about the SMD vs Through Hole mounted components!  

I bought my very first controller used a V1 model that was customer built, it had all through hole components with the small exception of the ones that LOR pre-installed that they prefer the customer not install. And those pre-installed by LOR components were all SMD parts on that V1 board.   All my V2 CTB16PC Controllers were all bought directly from LOR and all factory soldered and they contained 90% surface mount {SMD} components.  About the only items that weren't surface mounted were the Triacs and the contacts for the dangles and power cords and a few resistors were still through hole types, but not many.

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CTB16PC_DIFF_1024.jpg

These two units are from the same time period around 2010/2011. So you can see the factory built unit has some extra components not found on the kit build. Newer factory built ones no doubt have SMD but in this time period this was probably just one of the ways to tell the units apart at a glance, so they can be identified if you know what to look for.

High Resolution Picture

I wouldn't mind a SMD kit build. That would be a real test of ability, like challenge level 11. =D

Drew

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8 hours ago, pikadroo said:

CTB16PC_DIFF_1024.jpg

These two units are from the same time period around 2010/2011. So you can see the factory built unit has some extra components not found on the kit build. Newer factory built ones no doubt have SMD but in this time period this was probably just one of the ways to tell the units apart at a glance, so they can be identified if you know what to look for.

High Resolution Picture

I wouldn't mind a SMD kit build. That would be a real test of ability, like challenge level 11. =D

Drew

I just recently built a few 6 Port DMX Bridge kits with some SMD (wasn't too bad) I had to put a new power switch on my son's cell phone that was a challenge. And recently I had to fix a USB memory stick that got smashed that someone had some backup documents on that they needed (it was pretty ugly when i was done but we were able to transfer the data )

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On ‎10‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 8:54 AM, Ebuechner said:

I understand. It's a matter of ethics or lack of. I've noticed this forum is starting to attract some questionable characters. Have you noticed a majority of the posts are people begging for free sequence so they can use somebody else's work. I'm almost afraid to mention what sequences I have done

Well I don't beg for sequences but I do use other peoples sequences some are given to me and I have purchased a lot. Please don't think I am one of your "Questionable Characters" because I cant Sequence my songs. I am really into building and designing my display I love to build and wiring everything up but  I suck at sequencing. If it wasn't for other peoples work I wouldn't have a show because I sure wouldn't use the few I have sequenced for public viewing.   

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On 10/4/2016 at 7:54 AM, Ebuechner said:

I understand. It's a matter of ethics or lack of. I've noticed this forum is starting to attract some questionable characters. Have you noticed a majority of the posts are people begging for free sequence so they can use somebody else's work. I'm almost afraid to mention what sequences I have done

Not that it matters, really, but people have been asking for sequence for as long as I remember (about 11 years)

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8 hours ago, Don said:

Not that it matters, really, but people have been asking for sequence for as long as I remember (about 11 years)

 

That's what makes this hobby so great everybody helping each other out. I have only been in for 6 going on 7 years and it has changed a bunch (and I needed help keeping up) cant imagine what it was like 11 years  ago. Sorry didn't mean to high jack the post but  it bothers me when someone doesn't understand that not everybody has the same talents and might need a little help from ones that does.  Do you still have controllers from 11 years ago? or did you sell them on ebay lol   

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9 hours ago, minkhill said:

Well I don't beg for sequences but I do use other peoples sequences some are given to me and I have purchased a lot. Please don't think I am one of your "Questionable Characters" because I cant Sequence my songs. I am really into building and designing my display I love to build and wiring everything up but  I suck at sequencing. If it wasn't for other peoples work I wouldn't have a show because I sure wouldn't use the few I have sequenced for public viewing.   

When I got started I used shared sequences as well. But I always made sure that the person was offering the sequence first. I've had an occasion or two where I mentioned a song I'm working on NOT in the shared sequence area, only to have people ask me for the sequence without inquiring if I was willing to share first. The whole situation came off as just a little rude and it rubbed me the wrong way. When I got started I thought I sucked sequencing also (we are our own worst critics) but I kept and at it at first I used the full shared sequence but it never fit my display exactly, then I started using portions of the shared sequence adding my own work while watching a lot of YouTube videos picking what I like and what I didn't. Now I'm flying solo making my own sequences from start to end and now I can truly say that my display is all me. Maybe you're not as bad as you think you are at sequencing. I enjoy designing and building my own elements for my show more than sequencing but when I'm done I want to get the most out of what I built. You sound like you appreciate the work that other people put in and that wasn't the type of person I was speaking of. I didn't mean to hijack your post Pikadroo

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4 hours ago, minkhill said:

  Do you still have controllers from 11 years ago? or did you sell them on ebay lol   

Yep, still have them. Now if I could ever find time again to put a display up at the house they'd be in use, too. :)

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