CCRs and RGB pixels lag song by about 0.5 seconds in SE

[Ed K]

I’m using Pro v4.3.4, which has now been superseded by 4.3.6.  I use LOR software on a Windows 7 PC.  This PC's sole purpose is to sequence and run my lights.  The PC has an Intel i7 2.80 GHz processor, 6GB RAM, and a 500GB hard drive. It’s about 2 months old.

I don’t know if this is a beta issue, or an old issue, and I looked for it.  I apologize in advance if I should have posted this in a PE beta 4.3.4 forum.

All of my pixels normally blink/flash as programmed in PE.  Right now, I have a few of my fixtures actually attached and working on my PC, so I'm running sequences on some actual fixtures.

When I play a PE musical sequence in PE (with Control Lights checked on), the pixels on the actual fixtures play in time with the music, as do all of the props shown in the PE visualizer.

I saved the PE sequence intensity file, and opened it in SE.  When I play the same sequence in SE, the lights on the actual fixtures respond about 0.5 seconds after they are programmed (Ok, so my lights can't dance either).  My “lights” include six (6) CCRs, as well as RGB pixels attached to a couple of E1.31 controllers.

Somewhat related, and back to the sequence played inside of PE, when I zoom out of the PE sequencing grid, exposing the PE sequencing grid for the entire 1 minute, 12 second song, the lights on the actual fixtures also lag the music by about 0.5 seconds.  When I zoom way in, e.g., exposing about 5 seconds of the PE sequencing grid, the lights play in time with the music (i.e., no lag).
 

[ebrown1972]

2 hours ago, Ed K said:

I’m using Pro v4.3.4, which has now been superseded by 4.3.6.  I use LOR software on a Windows 7 PC.  This PC's sole purpose is to sequence and run my lights.  The PC has an Intel i7 2.80 GHz processor, 6GB RAM, and a 500GB hard drive. It’s about 2 months old.

I don’t know if this is a beta issue, or an old issue, and I looked for it.  I apologize in advance if I should have posted this in a PE beta 4.3.4 forum.

All of my pixels normally blink/flash as programmed in PE.  Right now, I have a few of my fixtures actually attached and working on my PC, so I'm running sequences on some actual fixtures.

When I play a PE musical sequence in PE (with Control Lights checked on), the pixels on the actual fixtures play in time with the music, as do all of the props shown in the PE visualizer.

I saved the PE sequence intensity file, and opened it in SE.  When I play the same sequence in SE, the lights on the actual fixtures respond about 0.5 seconds after they are programmed (Ok, so my lights can't dance either).  My “lights” include six (6) CCRs, as well as RGB pixels attached to a couple of E1.31 controllers.

Somewhat related, and back to the sequence played inside of PE, when I zoom out of the PE sequencing grid, exposing the PE sequencing grid for the entire 1 minute, 12 second song, the lights on the actual fixtures also lag the music by about 0.5 seconds.  When I zoom way in, e.g., exposing about 5 seconds of the PE sequencing grid, the lights play in time with the music (i.e., no lag).
 

I could be way off the mark here and probably am but I am curious what the bit rate of your audio is. Is it the standard 128 constant bit rate?

[SPaschall]

Another thing to remember is the Visualizer in SE is not as robust as the PE which I believe LOR is planning a release of an updated Visualizer this season. I have had lag at times with my normal props in the SE visualizer. Import the SE visualizer into PE and place your props into that visualizer and see if the problem exists

SPaschall.

[Ed K]

49 minutes ago, SPaschall said:

Another thing to remember is the Visualizer in SE is not as robust as the PE which I believe LOR is planning a release of an updated Visualizer this season. I have had lag at times with my normal props in the SE visualizer. Import the SE visualizer into PE and place your props into that visualizer and see if the problem exists

Thanks for the feedback.  It's not the Visualizer that lags.  It's my actual lights.  The actual fixtures I have attached to my PC play fine in PE (Control Lights is on), but not in SE.  

But when I zoom out of the PE sequencing grid, and click on Play, the actual lights lag by about 0.5 seconds.

When I play the actual lights in SE, from the saved PE intensity file, the actual lights lag.  

 

18 hours ago, ebrown1972 said:

I could be way off the mark here and probably am but I am curious what the bit rate of your audio is. Is it the standard 128 constant bit rate?

My audio file is an MP3 file.  Isn’t the common bit rate for MP3 files 128?   I see in Audacity that my song’s sample rate is 44100 HZ (a standard rate), and is stereo.  How would I calculate the bit rate?  The bitrate calculators I found online give me odd bit rates, based on my song’s file size and song length.

I just did a couple of tests (again), without making any other changes, just to isolate what's happening.  Here are the results:  

1.    The actual lights play perfectly in PE, but lag when I play the PE intensity file in SE
2.    Back in PE, I zoomed out on the PE sequencing grid to expose the entire song, then played in PE and saved the intensity file.  The actual lights now lag in PE and still lag in SE.

 

Here are a few details about the two tests I just did, and the results:

1.    I played the sequence in PE:  the actual lights were right in step with the music.  I then saved this PE sequence as an intensity file, opened the intensity file in SE, and played the sequence in SE.  The lights lagged the music by about 0.5 seconds.
2.    Back in PE again, I zoomed out completely, exposing the PE sequencing grid for the entire song.  I played the sequence in PE.  The actual lights lagged the music by 0.5 seconds.  To assure that when I saved this PE’s intensity file, it would be saved as an updated intensity file, I added an extremely minor effect to the PE sequence.     I saved this PE file as an intensity file, relaunched SE, opened the intensity file in SE, and played the sequence in SE.  The lights lagged the music by 0.5 seconds.

I'm using v4.3.4, which is a beta version of PE, and which LOR recently superseded with v4.3.6.  

 

[MattBrown]

When you play back in PE, is your preview on the main window or in a separate window. If on the main window, is Tools > Preview Playback > Fast playback marker enabled?

Matt

[Ed K]

1 hour ago, MattBrown said:

When you play back in PE, is your preview on the main window or in a separate window. If on the main window, is Tools > Preview Playback > Fast playback marker enabled?

My preview is in the main window. Yes, fast playback marker was, and is enabled.

I just replicated the issue again.  

(1)  When I have about 10 seconds of the PE sequence grid displayed, PE operates the actual lights perfectly.  

(2)  When I zoom out on the PE sequence grid, to the full song, and then play the PE sequence again, the actual lights lag about 0.5 seconds.  In both cases, I saved the intensity file, opened it in SE, and played the sequence in SE.  The actual lights lagged in both cases when played in SE.

[MattBrown]

By lag, you mean that the actual lights lag to the music, correct?

In PE, is the preview in sync with the music? Is the time marker in sync with the music? So if Control Lights is off, there is no issue?

How many channels are you controlling? DMX or enhanced LOR? How many networks do you have defined?

Matt

[Ed K]

Yes, by “lag”, I mean that the actual lights come on about 0.5 seconds after they’re programmed to come on to the music.  The actual lights lag behind the music.

 

In the PE preview window, when I’m zoomed in to view about 10 seconds of the song/sequence, the simulated lights in the PE visualizer window are in sync with the music, as are the actual lights. 

I then zoom out to view the entire 1 minute, 12 seconds of the PE song/sequence.  The simulated lights in the PE visualizer window, and the actual lights, both lag behind the song by about 0.5 seconds.  The simulated lights in the PE visualizer window blink at the same time as the actual lights, but again, 0.5 seconds behind the music.

Having Control Lights on or off does not seem to impact my issue.  Back in PE, I zoom in to display about 10 seconds of the song/sequence, and I turn off Control Lights.  The simulated lights in PE's visualizer, and the actual lights, are again in sync with the music and sequence.  I zoom out to display the entire PE sequence, with Control Lights still off, and the simulated lights in the PE visualizer, and the actual lights, fall about 0.5 seconds behind the music.

Channels controlled = 5,199 DMX, plus six (6) LOR CCRs, in Enhanced mode (500K speed).  Rather small and not complex.   All four (4) of my E1.31 controllers have just four SPI outputs each (i.e., none are 16-output controllers).

My networks:

(1)  I have one LOR network (Enhanced), which runs off one of my PC’s USB ports using the LOR adapter.  The CTB16 and six (6) CCRs are daisy-chained and all work.

(2)  I run my DMX/E1.31 controllers through my PC’s Ethernet port.

My show PC has no other user applications or software on it, as I have it dedicated solely to sequencing and running shows.  Also, I use only LOR software (i.e., no xLights, Vixen, etc.).  My show PC is not connected to my home network, it is not connected to the Internet (I connect only when I need to get latest LOR software), and it does not have WiFi.

[Ed K]

Ooops, in paragraph four in my prior response, I did not mean to say the "actual lights" came on when Control Lights are off.  Again, just the simulated lights in the PE visualizer are displaying.  Sorry for that confusion.

[Dennis Laff]

Is the lag on every song you play in a sequence?

[Ed K]

This is my first year with LOR and pixels, and this is my one and only music sequence so far.  (I used to use SSRs in the 90s with my own software to control them - ugh).

I have a number of small animation test sequences that I wrote, which was just to get up-to-speed on LOR software and to run tests on my LOR and E1.31 controllers and DMX-controlled pixels.

As an aside, Pixel Editor v4.3.4 is working great in all other areas, including developing my previews with LOR and DMX fixtures, and getting effects up and running quickly.

[Dennis Laff]

You should try another song and see if that lags have you set your songs in audacity to 128 constant bit rate 

[Ed K]

I haven't set my song in Audacity to 128.   I downloaded Audacity a couple of months ago, but b/c my first song was just 1:12 long, and was all but working correctly, I hadn't made any settings to it using Audacity.

I'll do that next, pull it up in the same sequence, and see what happens.  Thanks for suggesting.

I'll post back here to report what happens.  

B/c I haven't used Audacity, I don't know what it will do with the timings of the MP3 file if the only setting I make to it is 128.   I thought the default on MP3 files was 128 constant bit rate.

 

 

[Dennis Laff]

Look in the light o Rama tutorials on how to set the constant bit rate it's the first thing they recommend to do before you start a sequence .

[ebrown1972]

8 hours ago, Ed K said:

I haven't set my song in Audacity to 128.   I downloaded Audacity a couple of months ago, but b/c my first song was just 1:12 long, and was all but working correctly, I hadn't made any settings to it using Audacity.

I'll do that next, pull it up in the same sequence, and see what happens.  Thanks for suggesting.

I'll post back here to report what happens.  

B/c I haven't used Audacity, I don't know what it will do with the timings of the MP3 file if the only setting I make to it is 128.   I thought the default on MP3 files was 128 constant bit rate.

 

 

Mp3's all need to be checked. I purchased several songs from Amazon that I had to change to 128 bit rate. When you zoom in and out on the timing grid it should not change anything but if the mp3 is not 128 constant bit rate the timings will be off especially when zooming in and out in PE. I know because this has happened to me before and I changed the bit rate to 128 constant and the problem goes away.

[Ed K]

I used Audacity to convert the song to an MP3 file with a constant 128 bitrate (I'll do that going forward for all my songs). 

Using SE, I associated the converted song to my sequence:  Edit | Media file, then select the song.   I then I opened the sequence in PE, and clicked on a Play icon. 

The entire song played about 0.5 seconds before my effects, regardless of whether I'm zoomed in or out on the PE sequencing grid (like ebrown1972 said, that's a good thing it doesn't change when zoomed in or out).  Ditto for playing the intensity file in SE (the lag occurs), which confirms that SE used what PE created.

Solution:   I added 0.5 seconds of "silence" at the beginning of the song, using Audacity.  I then associated the revised song again to SE, opened the sequence in PE, and clicked on Play.  All the actual lights and the PE visualizer blink/flash in sync with the song, whether zoomed in or out on sequencing grid.  And, SE plays the PE-created intensity file in sync.

Thanks for all the specific suggestions -- this was a good learning experience for me.  

[SPaschall]

You also could have skewed the track in SE and opened it in PE. Glad you found a fix.

SPaschall